Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Previously on Product Genius, Noah and Steven encounter the Klingons.
Noah: They’re in the network and they don’t take prisoners.
Steven: Even at warp speed, Noah, we can’t outrun them.
Noah: Fire everything!
Steven: And now, the exciting conclusion of networking on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes! It is your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Welcome to another, hopefully one day soon, award-winning edition of Product Genius. The intrepid producer Jody Smith is wiggling the knobs and trying to find the exact right sound for my voice, and he still can’t get it because it’s an unsolvable equation. Across the table is the host, the man who puts it all together, the genius who brings other geniuses to the table. It is. Noah McNeely.
Noah: Good afternoon.
Steven: Good afternoon. The no fire trucks, no ambulances, no trains coming by yet.
Noah: At least not yet.
Steven: Hey, I wanted to start off the show. This is part two. Welcome to the cliffhanger episode. Welcome to Who Shot JR? Since we are doing a…
Noah: I think it was Maggie Simpson.
Steven: Apparently in the works, we have a second podcast that you want to start about true crime of product design or something. Hey, that rhymes. So this is the second part. Before we even get into the topic, I have to ask you a question. We’re going to do a little show production meeting on the end. When are we going to get an AI-generated hard rock version of our intro?
Noah: Ooh, hard rock, huh?
Steven: Yeah, hard rock, metal rock, 80s hairband.
Noah: Well, now that you’ve inspired that, I’m going to say this afternoon.
Steven: Yeah, okay, good. Because I was over here, I do a little dance into the music, and I’m like, I’m getting a little tired.
Noah: I had AI generate a heavy metal Easter bunny song a few months ago, and it was quite amusing.
Steven: Quite good.
Noah: It was chocolate death bunnies. Chocolate death. It was fantastic.
Steven: Nice. All right. Well, coming soon.
Noah: Glad we’re putting all this computing power in the world to good use, right? Exactly.
Steven: Yeah. Yeah, I’m glad all that water and energy is going to create good, helpful stuff. And I did want to bring that up because we’re talking about the second part two of the show. Last show we did, we talked about the dangers of networking. We talked about… The people you want to try to avoid when you’re networking and as you’re building your network, the pitfalls to avoid. So we kind of wanted to turn it on its head and kind of do the positive side. And you had a great idea. So you had this nice picture and it involved computers. Shocking. Noah, the recovering engineer who does CAD drawings and does 3D printing, had a computer analogy for what we want to talk about today.
Noah: Oh, you want me to tell it?
Steven: Better than me telling it.
Noah: So, you know, back in the old days when you had your computer network, you had to plug everything into the wall and you were kind of limited. You only had so many plugs and. you had to run these. Cat 5 cables, baby. Yeah, Cat 5 cables.
Steven: Sorry, I used to work in a.
Noah: Yeah, for younger listeners, that has nothing to do with felines. And it’s just these wires you had running everywhere. So you’re kind of limited. But now, think of the network you have in your house. It’s totally wireless. Believe it or not, you used to have to plug the TV into a special cable that came out of the wall, but now you can put it anywhere.
Steven: Oh, man. You had a coaxial cable and it had that scary little pointy thing at the end and you had to twist it on right and it would get on. Yeah.
Noah: And if you broke that, you were in deep trouble.
Steven: You were in big time trouble. And the point being that… Networking is changing. Building your, you know, having a network is changing. And Noah, you kind of wanted to say, look, as the world of computing and as the world of your network in your home or in your business has dramatically shifted, we used to, my first job out of college was working for a telephone company that. put in office phone systems. And everything was analog. You had a punch board and you had all this stuff. And then everything started going to VoIP or Voice over Internet Protocol. It took 15 years to do it. But now there’s no phone room. There’s no phone board that you, I mean, it was this whole, they map it out and they do it. You don’t do that anymore. Yeah.
Noah: Older office complexes, they still have rooms that used to be the phone rooms. Correct. And you go in there and there’s all these holes in the wall now. Correct.
Steven: Absolutely. So it got turned into a. Data storage. Anyway, so things have changed dramatically in the computing world and in how we do computing. And so we wanted to kind of bring the flip side of this topic and just kind of talk about how has networking changed and does networking even need to be done? We talked about this bad. Some people might go, I’m just going to avoid networking altogether because… And what I loved was as we started talking about how to make this a second show, you had a couple of thoughts, but then you. and I just started talking and I said to comment, no, I think you and I just need to have an open conversation in front of our loyal listeners and just kind of go, we’re still trying to figure this out too. The world is changing so drastically, so quickly. And when it comes to building your business, building your product-based business, bringing your product to market. Has it changed so much that we just need to stop dealing with people altogether? And the answer is no.
Noah: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people would like to believe it has, especially those who are natural introverts like myself. But, you know, it is very different. And just like with the old school networking in your computer world, you had wires and things running everywhere, and now you don’t. Now, used to old school networking in the people world was you had a Rolodex, you went to places, you collected business cards. I don’t even have business cards anymore. And used to, you know, used to, again, like you had that big phone sitting on the desk and you would call people up. And, you know, introverts like myself would just email, of course, but a lot more phone calls were happening then. And, you know, when I actually started this company 11-ish years ago now, I had a whole briefcase full of business cards I collected in my former company at trade shows. And it’s like, yeah, I could turn this into an interesting art piece. But other than that, you know, those business cards aren’t worth anything at this point or even at that point because all those people moved on to other jobs. The phone numbers weren’t right. Everything was different. So we’re in a very different world now.
Steven: And I think the temptation is to then go, well, then. I just need to do everything online. I need to go completely online or shut myself in and do everything myself. The whole point of this show, if you’ve listened for any amount of time, you can’t do everything yourself, but hey, I’ll just search. I’ll just have AI tell me the best place to go for this or I’ll just search for the best whatever instead of going out and meeting people and getting to know people and building a network of people. And I. don’t think that’s the right solution.
Noah: No, I think that’s an overcorrection. I think you see that overcorrection in a couple of ways. I think you see it with bigger companies trying to really do all their customer service that way, which if it’s a really simple issue, yeah, that works. That works great. I had an incident earlier this week, and it kind of brought out the old man hates technology side of me because, you know, I get… I had to pick up a prescription at a pharmacy and they used to have a system where you push one and talk to a pharmacist or you could just type in your refill code. That was great. It was simple. It was a really weird robotic voice. Please enter your code. I loved it. It was fine. I could do it. No problem. Now they’ve got this AI thing that answers the phone. Hello, how are you today? I’m great. I just want to fill. Would you like to fill a prescription? Yes. Tell me what it is. I can’t find that prescription. Please tell me what your prescription is. So the only option that would work is, would. you like to just refill all your prescriptions? Yes, refill all the prescriptions. So we went back like eight years of prescriptions to things like, you know, I had a cold one time and I was prescribed, you know, erythromycin four years ago and they tried to refill that. So now you’ve got this pharmacy. Supposedly using this AI system to make things easier, faster, quicker. Now the pharmacy, the automatic robot sends out to that doctor who is no longer at that clinic to ask, can I refill erythromycin for this patient that you’ve not seen in four years? And that was easier for me to get the one thing I needed. Okay, I’m getting a little too agitated.
Steven: Jody and all the listeners, let’s all together help Noah by saying one, two, three. Get off my lawn. Okay. So that was your. get off my lawn.
Noah: Old man yells at clown. Yeah.
Steven: So at times, so in trying to make things better or more streamlined, you then can create more individual problems for individuals who then go, wait, the old system was fine. All I had to do was go to my app and do this and click. this and I’m good.
Noah: Yeah, we’ve talked about the 80-20 rule on this show before, which for products, that makes total sense. You know, who’s going to buy 80% of your products you design for that group of people? That’s fantastic. It’s a terrible idea in customer service. So these companies, they’ve designed AI systems that meet the needs of 80% of the people and totally screws over the other 20%.
Steven: Yes. And even, yeah, and even if it’s, oh, well, we’re only going to have problems with 10%. And then here’s what’s really funny is I think as AI continues to grow in some of those streamlining things, I think the other thing that I’ve already heard actually with some people who are using it, and I think it’ll be interesting is if it can handle it fine, but how quickly can you get off to actually talk to a person? Because at the end, this is the point I think you and I wanted to make is at the end, one of the points we want to make at the end of the day. How important are people in getting your product to market, in building your business, in kind of seeing your business goals or your business dreams be reached? You still need people.
Noah: Yes, I agree completely. And if you think about my experience with the pharmacy, you know, it’s a system designed to meet the needs of 80%. If you try to not network with actual people and you just use everything from, you know, all sorts of online services and tools, which are great. Don’t get me wrong. There are places and reasons to use all these things. But if that’s all you’re doing, then you’re getting the same results and answers that 80% of everybody else is getting. You’re not doing anything new or different or exciting or innovating, which as an inventor, that’s kind of what you’re trying to do.
Steven Julian: That answer right. there could be another show. I don’t think we can go all the way down that rabbit hole.
Noah: This is not going to be a three-part show.
Steven: No, it’s not going to be a three-part show. But when we were talking about this and preparing to do this second part, one of the things you said was using both technology and people. well. They have to be used together.
Noah: I don’t like the phrase using people, Steven. That’s a little bit outdated.
Steven: Okay. How would you like to correct me in that?
Noah McNeely: Utilize. I’m just making fun of you.
Steven: Yeah, I know.
Noah: We use people all the time.
Steven: No, that’s not right. Access, no.
Noah: Maximize the relationship you have with people.
Steven: Oh, that’s fantastic. That’s why he’s the genius, ladies and gentlemen. So the idea of technology, absolutely, you need to find the ways it can help you. You need to be careful not to replace. There are… People scenarios that don’t need to be replaced. And let’s talk about you. Let’s talk about what you do.
Noah: One of my top 10 favorite subjects.
Steven: I know. It’s climbing the charts. Depending on the week, it’s somewhere between three and seven. In your role of helping people bring their product to market, what is a way that technology in the last five to 10 years has helped you in helping your clients? And then what is something that you’re like, I still have to be involved even though I’m using this technology to help me help them?
Noah McNeely: Okay, there’s a lot of question there. And there were broad answers. I’ll. give an example.
Steven: Yeah, there you go.
Noah: So just AI is big. Everybody knows what AI is now more or less. So what I found is inventors can actually use it. Very helpfully to try to communicate what they’re trying to do to be better. So instead of bringing me something made out of Play-Doh, which I still don’t mind, bring it, I don’t care. They can actually go on to ChatGPT or whatever and describe what they want. It generates a picture and then they say, okay, change this, change that. It still isn’t a product that’s designed, but if you come in and they can show me really a good example of, hey, I was going for this kind of look and, you know, that’s not quite right, but this is what I want. And I can look at it and say, okay. We can’t manufacture it this way and that way, but we can do these things. But it just gets the communication a little bit further along, which is helpful. Now, I use that tool. I’ve used that tool in the other direction sometimes. If I have, for example, working on a project right now. that’s this thing that people wear on their heads. So it interfaces with the body. And we wanted to show that. I wanted to show that what it would look like on different people from different ages and et cetera. So I could use the AI to take my CAD model, my images of it, and say, okay, put this on a model that is a 45-year-old woman and a 25-year-old man, and it could do that quickly. That would have taken me a long time to do in the past and wouldn’t have provided enough value per hour to do that for the client. We just have to imagine, imagine on this person, that person. This I could do in a matter of minutes. The design still had to be done by me. You know, for engineering and manufacturability, but I can communicate how that design rolls out across a much broader, in a much faster way than I could before.
Steven: Is one of the dangers of, I didn’t want to talk about dangers, we want to talk about the positive of building a network, but in this stuff of AI, so in your example, you’re talking about, hey, we could have just imagined it, but here I got to put it into AI and show it. I would wonder if one of the cautions is, Using AI to do so many things, you’re going, okay, but 17 of those 20 things you just used AI to do, we didn’t really need to do that. I don’t need to show everything. I don’t need to go down, okay, I used all these different examples. Yeah, I get that, but did you have to have 972 examples? I mean, good heaven. You used the people from the Star Trek pilot episode with the big giant heads. I didn’t need that. There’s nobody with that head.
Noah: Yeah, I mean, you still want to use things efficiently because… You can sit down and waste an entire day playing with AI if you want to. But again, you got to remember, this is a business. Time is money. Use it effectively. Use AI effectively. Don’t bother with things you don’t need. And I will caveat, when I do use AI, like in that case, I always put the disclaimer, hey, these were generated, these models were generated with AI to show the product. Because sometimes, you know, they don’t look quite like they’re supposed to. People just, I want to make sure I’m very transparent about that.
Steven: I think also the other thing, getting back to kind of the positive of your network and who you’re networking with, you use AI differently than your clients. use AI because you are bringing your experience, your past, your prototype building expertise to AI. So what you’re going to ask AI to do is different than what they’re going to ask AI to do, which means the point of as someone is bringing a product to market, So let’s just review real quickly, who are some of the people, the people that they need to include on their team? And everything’s different, but some of the key people that they need to at least think about finding for their network and talking to.
Noah: Yeah. So if you’re planning to bring it all the way to the market versus licensing, if you’re planning to license it, you need someone that understands licensing on your team. The internet or even AI, but it’s going to be basic information. It’s not going to be the nuances of how to. actually pitch your specific product and how to write that deal around your specific thing. So licensing experts. in that case, if you are taking all the way to the market, you need someone that knows how to market the product, how to sell the product, the logistics of, okay, am I going to put these in my garage? Do I work with a warehouse company? What do I do there? Of course, and then the stuff that I do, you need, most likely you need some expertise in design, engineering, designing it, designing it for manufacturing, and someone that has relationships or can help you build those relationships with factories to get things done. Because at the end of the day, you make a thousand or something, it comes in and it’s wrong. Are you going to yell at ChatGPT about it? Or are you going to get it? You’re going to go back to the real people and say, help me fix this.
Steven: I think that was one of the big things. as we were talking about this that I wanted to bring out was the concept of technology. as it continues to grow, it brings the ability. for me to look at some things, get some examples, and get some knowledge about things that I have almost no knowledge about or very little knowledge about. However, that doesn’t mean I would want AI to write my will. Right. Because AI, because at the end of the day, somebody who has the expertise and the knowledge, a person needs to look and go, okay, that’s, yeah, that’s there, but it’s not all the way there. And when it comes to certain things like building a prototype, oh, AI, I ran it through this AI and this agentic thing, and it told me to do this and this, and I did it. And they bring it to you and go, that’s fantastic, but it’s not going to work because of Yeah, whatever.
Noah: I mean, it won’t work because of this, because of that. But I think viewing, and this wasn’t supposed to be an episode all about AI, so we’ll circle back around in a minute. Sorry.
Steven: When you say technology now, that’s what you mean, right? I mean, that’s the problem.
Noah: Viewing AI as an enhancement and an accelerator to your workflow is great. Viewing it as your entire team workflow, that usually doesn’t work out that well. Now, again, if it’s a simple task like, Help me come up with, you know, a to-do list. Sure. Get AI to do it. Who cares? I’m talking about really big stuff, life-changing stuff.
Steven: Hey, AI, write me a patent. That’s not a good idea.
Noah: Yeah. Now, if you want to say, hey, AI, what should I consider putting in my patent? Absolutely. Then give that list to someone like our friend Brock to go through and actually make a good patent out of it. That’s fine. In fact, that probably accelerates that process in a good way. But then Brock’s going to go through and say, Yeah, but this doesn’t make sense. This does. And you didn’t even talk about this. We need to do it. It’s more of a starter than anything else. Right.
Steven: So when you come to doing networking the right way and you come to doing network in the wireless age that we’re in, one of the things you kind of had down here as a good rule to think about doing it right is network with people who aren’t like you. Opposites kind of. attract. Talk about that.
Noah: Well, and we touched on this earlier in the last part of this episode or this two-part episode. If you’re just talking with people that are kind of in your same position, they’re struggling to invent something, they’re having the exact same problems you have, or they have the exact same expertise you have, you’re not expanding that knowledge base. It’s kind of like, again, back to AI. If you trained an AI bot on everything you know, and that’s it. It might be fun to talk to yourself, but you’re just talking to yourself. Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. But the taste is just the beginning.
Steven: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more.
Noah: Try today at GetOpu.com. That’s GetOpu.com.
Steven: Look at this show. You and I, while we share a love of weird, nerdy topics, and every show is a contest secretly of who can put in the most obscure cultural reference, you always talk about how you’re an introvert, and I’m. basically an extrovert. You’re a recovering engineer and I’m a, you know, you would stand in the corner of a networking group and I would go, oh, look, there’s an audience. Let me see how I can get people to laugh or whatever.
Noah: And those are, I think, our natural tendencies. I’m a little better than I used to be.
Steven: Okay, goodness gracious. Noah, you’re great.
Noah: I’m very easily offended.
Steven: Awesome. You’re fantastic. I am going to book you at my next show or I’m going to, I’m going to put you on the Apollo and you’re going to do standup comedy. So also when you’re, when you’re networking with people, I think one of the things we want to talk about, my first career I worked. With teenagers in church settings. And one of the things that I was taught in working with teenagers is relationships are absolutely essential. It’s all about the relationships. And it’s funny, I think sometimes you look at a church or I think you look at business, I think in today’s wireless world, the danger is we get more focused on the program. Then we are on the relationship. We get focused on the. show, what’s up on stage or what’s being flashed, you know, what’s being shown in front of everybody instead of what about the people? So you, you know, one of the things we want to do as a benefit of kind of doing it right is treating people as people and kind of talking about that relational aspect. You, you know. You’re not best friends with all your clients.
Noah: No.
Steven: But what does it look like to be relational? What does it look like to have a good relationship with a client?
Noah: Well, for me, it’s a lot more than just understanding the product they’re trying to do or just understanding the elements that I’m going to necessarily touch directly. I want to understand what their drivers are. Why do you want to do this product? What are your goals? What are your business goals? When we have a first call, I don’t typically just ask them about the product. One of the questions I asked early on, and I also caveat it with, you may not know the answer to this yet, and that’s okay. We’ll figure it out. But what do you want to do with this? And. that goes back to licensing or actually I want to manufacture it. I want to manufacture and then get bought out because that helps me to help them better. But if I just ask, okay, what do you want to design and prototype? I’ll do that and that’d be great. That doesn’t give me enough information to make suggestions back to them that can actually help them further along what they really want to do.
Steven: So to people who are trying to, you know, inventor entrepreneurs who are listening to this show, don’t be scared to ask relational questions. Not will you be my friend, but just kind of, you know, if they’re just wanting a transaction, there might be somebody better out there for you. Is that a fair statement?
Noah McNeely: Yeah, I mean, you need people. And people are more complex than just the simple transaction you’re dealing with. I mean, if you’re just buying something at the store, yeah, go to the automated checkout if you don’t want to talk to people. That’s not going to change your life. But at the same time, if you want to be friendly and talk to the cashier, do it. There’s. nothing wrong with that either. But when we’re talking about something big, You don’t want an engineer that operates or a designer or anything else related to your business that operates like an automatic checkout machine. You know, you need people and I’m sorry, you’re going to say something. I was about to change. I was about to jump to another subject.
Steven: Oh, well, okay. So before you do, wow, he’s pivoting the show. I was sitting here thinking that, okay, relationships matter and people matter, but. Make sure you’re not doing the people from the Dr. Rick. progressive episodes, progressive commercials that you’re, oh, I’m in a relationship with the guy working in the sewer. Oh, is this related to the elementary school? By the way, one of these, it still is in my head. Jody has, our intrepid producer Jody has the greatest theory of what the end game of those progressive commercials is going to be. So that’s a tease. I’m not going to give it away on the air that we’d have to bring him on to talk about it. It’s brilliant. Those are the greatest commercials going on right now. Okay. How did you want? to pivot? Because I was going to pivot to something, but I’ll see what you want to pivot to. We may have two more topics.
Noah: Or we may be pivoting in the same direction. That would be amazing. Yeah. So I was going to say, you know, look at one of the big problems that we recognize as a culture now. And you mentioned teenagers. So how many stories have you heard about teenagers that their entire relationship base is merely online? It’s through Snapchat or… You know, whatever it is, I almost said Facebook, but I don’t think any teenagers actually use Facebook.
Steven Julian: It’s our platform.
Noah: All the cool stuff that teenagers do online, you even hear about people that their girlfriend is a chatbot. And that’s their entire relationship. And those are just, those are things that at best are just reflecting back what they’re telling it on some level. And it’s not real. I mean, it… Maybe it’s fun. if you want to chat with a thing about, hey, let’s talk about how llamas evolved. Who cares? Whatever it is you want to talk about, that’s fine. Do it because no normal person wants to talk about. that with you. But that’s not the same as actually building a relationship with someone that has their own drivers and their own life that can intersect with yours. In ways that you can’t predict, in ways you can’t ask a question about. You just have to let it happen and see what happens.
Steven: Relationships are messy. Relationships take work. Relationships may not always go the way you want them to go, or they may take longer than you want them to take. All of those things might be tempting online. But then there are other consequences for that. Where I was going to pivot to is going back to your pharmacy.
Noah McNeely: Hold on. The second half of that point was a lot of people that are out trying to start a business and a lot of people running businesses, I see them approaching networking the way these teenagers are approaching their social lives. These teenagers that are stuck online are approaching their social lives. All right. That was my whole point.
Steven: And how are they doing that?
Noah: Just online. They’re not building any real relationships.
Steven: He really just said the same thing twice. But it is his show. But.
Noah: I did this when I did it.
Steven: You did. You did it. You did it with a lot of conviction. That’s right. You almost pounded the table, but you knew that it would make a noise. By the way, you have been very skillfully drinking from your Georgia Tech mug with your Pepsi Wild Cherry, neither of which are sponsors of this show, but could be if they would reach out. And thank you, Opu Probiotics.
Noah: I don’t know why I chose a heavy metal cup to drink out of today. that makes clinky noises every time I pick it up.
Steven: It was why I thought of the heavy metal reintroduction of our show. But I was going to… I was going to say this. I wanted to go back to the pharmacy. The pharmacy, what a great story of the AI bot.
Noah: Would you just like all your, I mean, you can’t make it up. It was so infuriating. Yeah.
Steven: And it was like, why am I getting allergy pills from when I was 16?
Noah: At the end of the day, I’m sure that costs some actual people more time than if I just called them and thought, okay, okay, okay.
Steven: All right. Get off my lawn. I know. I know. Well, I would just like to say welcome as the other.
Noah: Back in my day, people answered the phone. That’s right.
Steven: We walked down. Anyway, go watch Lily Tomlin on Laugh-In do the operator, the plug-in. They had party lines and everything. So I was going to ask this because you mentioned, by the way, what was the name of the thing that you had when you had a cold? What was the name of what they prescribed?
Noah: Erythromycin. Erythromycin. It wasn’t a cold. It was an infection. It was an antibiotic.
Steven: This is not a medical show. I know. I love that. you know that name.
Noah: My wife’s in pharmacy, so I know lots of stuff.

Steven: So here’s what I was getting. When we were talking pre-show, we were kind of talking, you were talking about networks and you were talking about computer networks and you were talking about avoiding viruses. And I’m wondering if you kind of meant that in terms of, hey. The more time you spend online, the more time you potentially get of getting a virus if you’re trying to do more with. your network than you really should, meaning your computer network. Is that kind of what you meant?

Noah: Well, yeah, sort of. So it’s about how shallow the relationship is. So if you’re going online and you’re like, oh, I pop up. Hey, this is a network tool. Download and it’ll make you do all these things. Never do any of that. You do all these things and there’s malware, there’s all sorts of stuff you can release on your home network. that’s terrible. You know, all sorts of bad things happen. In the human networking space, if your relationships are so shallow, maybe they’re just online, you don’t know who you’re letting into your network either. And my point is that that may not be someone you want to be associated with. And we just don’t know. I mean, how many people out there are like, I see someone you don’t even really know. I see you’re connected with so-and-so on LinkedIn. Can you connect me? It’s like, I don’t know you. I don’t know them. We’re just connected because we’re connected to other people. So, you know, that’s not necessarily a great idea. Now, if you want to take. the time to get to know them, that’s different.

Steven: LinkedIn is the business online connection, which for about five to seven years, it was, you got to be on LinkedIn. You got to be active. You got to be doing this. You got to be doing that. It still has a role to play, but. If you use LinkedIn to completely replace being in front of other people and building actual relationships face-to-face or over the phone through your Rolodex or whatever.

Noah: You will get a lot of congratulations for your work anniversary from people you’ve never heard of.

Steven: You want to hear something really funny? I apparently have a work anniversary for my day job as a financial advisor. I have one for this podcast. I have one for another podcast I do. I have one for when I left. My first broker dealer to go to my, and I went independent. And so like six times a year, I get a whole list. Hey, congratulations on your work anniversary.

Noah: I don’t know who saw that. What ar

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: