Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: You’ve probably heard of the book The Seven People You Meet in Heaven. Today we’re going to be talking about the four or five dangerous people we’re trying to avoid at your next networking event. And I know what you might be thinking. Is it four or is it five, Steven? Well, to tell you the truth and all this excitement, I kind of lost track myself. So maybe you’ll have to listen and keep track yourself, punk. Next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes. Greetings and salutations, loyal listeners of Product Genius. It is your slightly annoying host or co-host. I can’t remember which one she says in the introduction. It is your slightly annoying something, Steven. Julian. I am sitting in the air-conditioned, thankfully, lair of Product Quick Start. I am seated next to the intrepid producer, Jody Smith, and I am seated across. From he who shall be listened to today, Noah McNeely.
Noah: Well, good afternoon.
Steven: It is afternoon as we record this and it is also springtime. The things green are coming out and…
Noah: And that may explain any sniffles you hear. Yes. Because springtime and I do not get along for a few weeks.
Steven: Yes. And you are not quite at springtime and I do not get along. So you’re not there yet.
Noah: Not yet. Yeah.
Steven: But I do hear a little… There’s a little something up there.
Noah: When I get there, I’ll be heavily medicated and there’s no telling what I’ll say.
Steven: Can’t wait for those shows. That’s when Jody and I asked for our raises. So we’re excited about that. Yeah, we are going to be, we’re talking about networking. We’re talking about is your network up and running? And just as a little side note, those who know the lore of Product Genius know that. We talk many times about how, I mean, Noah is the engine that drives this? thing. He is the genius of helping you bring your product to market. And he brings other geniuses around the table. And we have conversations about how we can’t do it alone. We need geniuses to help get our products to market or be a genius by knowing geniuses, yada, yada, yada. And Noah sends out ideas. Hey, this is what I was thinking about talking about. And because I don’t do this for a living. I’m just a slightly annoying podcast co-host. I go, that sounds great. Let’s do it. We’ll figure it out. He said this one, and I was like, oh, baby, I can take this ball and run with it. But then I realized as we talked pre-show, you and I have a slightly different definition. So your note was, hey, is your network up and running the dangers of networking? So I’m going to ask you, and then I’m going to get to rebut after that. When you say networking, what are you talking about?
Noah: Well, first of all, I’d like to thank you for implying that I put a great deal of preparation in advance to this and that I sent this to you. weeks ago.
Steven: You actually received it this morning because—Or when I walked in the door.
Noah: Yeah, well, that was this morning. That was before 12 o’clock. It was, you’re right. It was around 1157, I think. It was. So, you know, I have been thinking about it, but I have a lot to do. So I procrastinated, which is something I’m really good at. But anyway, what was your question?
Steven: Especially about activities that are profitable to your company, Product QuickStart.
Noah: It’s odd. It’s weird, isn’t it?
Steven: It is. So we have, I think we have slightly different definitions. And so we’re going to take a moment. You said, hey, let’s talk about the dangers of networking. And as we talked about it ahead of the show, I think I have a slightly different definition or I have a different picture in my mind of networking. When you say networking, what are you talking about?
Noah: I’m talking about just growing your pool of people you know, and then you get to know people they know. And it’s just, you know, I have a more casual definition of networking than I think you do.
Steven: Organic and an outgrowth of your. other regular activities.
Noah: Yeah, it’s less of a, for me, it’s, well, because, you know, engineers tend to be a little bit introverted. It’s less of an active, you know, go out and… I work a trade show, work an event, and meet as many people as I can. It’s really more, you know, I meet people through the course of what I do, and then we get to talking, and I get to know them, and they get to know me, and then we go from there.
Steven: And so your topic, as you brought it, is kind of this… Being a little careful of the dangers of what you might experience as you’re making relationships and starting to meet people and bring people into your sphere.
Noah: And I don’t mean you might accidentally be networking with a serial killer. That could be dangerous, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
Steven: That’s another genre of podcasts that are way too, way too filled up.
Noah: We’ll do the Product Genius Real Crime podcast another time.
Steven: You’ve done that.
Noah: That would be a fun episode.
Steven: Yeah, it’s around patents and things like that. So what my definition, and you kind of gave. it away a little bit there, is when I think of networking, it is a specific activity. We joke about it and I casually mention it. I am a financial advisor by trade. My job is to find people and have them talk about money, their money, and if they want to use my services to help them to plan for retirement, all that kind of stuff. So I have attended dozens and dozens and hundreds and hundreds of networking events, specific networking events. So as we talk about this topic, you were willing to go, hey, Steven, if you want to kind of go down that path and start talking about actual events, because I think. Some of your clients are entrepreneurs who may find themselves at a networking event, so it may come up. But I think there’s also this line of demarcation that we can draw about just kind of building a network as you go along and specifically going to network.
Noah: Yeah, I think of those networking events kind of like those speed dating events they used to have where you go and you sit down with someone for five minutes and you learn as much. as you can about them in that five minutes.
Steven: They actually do that. I’m sure they do. Speed networking is very much, Jody is over here nodding his head. He and I have both been a part of speed networking.
Noah: I would be so exhausted after that. I would go home and just crash.
Steven: The biggest irritation is when you’re sitting next to a person that you have to sit next to as you go through 30 different tables and they never get up when the bell rings. They always have another minute to talk and it’s like, you are cutting into my time all the time. And so people will skip that. Anyway, I’m sorry. Bringing up memories, bringing up memories. Cleanse, cleanse.
Noah: I didn’t mean to trigger you. That’s okay.
Steven: So as you’re building your network, as you’re going through bringing your product to market, as you do your services and looking to find clients and kind of finding other people who might be able to help your clients, you kind of talked on or sent out the idea of a few different things. What is, in your experience, the biggest? The number one danger as you kind? of start to build your network. And this might just be you anecdotally talking about your journey because you’ve been doing this a while. So what is kind of the biggest danger as you build a network that you see?
Noah: Yeah, so I didn’t actually even put, I didn’t think about that question. So I didn’t actually put that one on the list here because I was thinking more about from what I’ve seen inventors do. But for me personally, The biggest mistake I’ve made in networking is, how do I say this, taking people totally at face value who shouldn’t have been taken at face value. And then I start to, you know, I trust them and I start to add them, I introduce them to other people in my network. And then I find out later that, oh, that was not a good thing to do. That person was not everything they said they were. And so I think the lesson there is. I need to, and I’ve learned this, you know, this was years and years ago. So the thing I have learned. Is to do a little bit more due diligence and get to know someone. really well before I unleash them on my network. Unleash is not a good word. In their case, it is because they were kind of monstrous, but introduce them to other people that you like.
Steven: And I think, you know, the old saying is, you know, caveat emptor, buyer beware, networker beware. I mean, it’s okay to be cautious. It’s okay. Don’t be a jerk, but it’s okay to… And I like the way you said it. Don’t take every single person and every single thing they say at face value. So let’s talk about some of the ones for your clients as they go out and they start networking or they start meeting people. You kind of almost have characters on the stage. You have characters in a play as they go through these acts of bringing their product to market. You mentioned, I’m going to just kind of use the words you used and let’s talk about it.
Noah: Hey, please, if you can say everything I was planning to say, then, you know, I’ll be on the spot. I’ll have to come up with something. It’ll be a good challenge. I like that.
Steven: So you mentioned in your notes something called the echo chamber. Who is that person?
Noah: Okay, I’m going to go to the extreme version of each of these characters, I think. And I also think it’s kind of like dating. And so the echo chamber, if you compare it to dating, it’s… You know, that guy or girl who starts to emulate everything you do, you know, after a few dates, you know, all of a sudden it’s like, I’m dating myself, which is weird. Maybe I was that person in college at one point, but we’re not going to go there.
Steven: For the record, Jody and I already had facial hair before we met you, so we’re not emulating you.
Noah: That is true. So I look up to you both and I went home and told my wife, you know, they’ve got a beard. I’ve got to have one. If I don’t have a beard, I’m going to go nuts. You didn’t have a beard.
Steven: No, I don’t think you did.
Noah: No, I didn’t. That’s what I said. I went home to my wife after I met you guys. So Jody, he’s met these two awesome guys.
Steven: Too bad I can’t echo chamber your. hair because it is fantastic and I can’t, yeah, anyway.
Noah: They make wigs. But anyway, okay, so the extreme version of the echo chamber on the inventor side.
Steven: Google wig people.
Noah: These are, go to Alibaba, you can get wigs there. Go ahead. In bulk. Okay, now we’re getting way off track.
Steven: We’re derailing the host.
Noah: Extreme inventor echo chamber. Yeah. And this might offend a few people, so don’t take it offensively, but. These are the people that go to the inventor clubs and that’s it. That’s their entire network. is other people that are going to inventor clubs to talk about how great their invention is. And then five years later, they’re still going to the same inventor club talking about how great their invention is and it’s all still in their garage. That’s the extreme echo chamber. They’re just there to brag. Okay, maybe not brag. They’re just there to talk about each other’s inventions and say, hey, I ran into this problem. Hey, I have the same problem. Do you know how to solve it? No. Do you know how to solve it? No. You get stuck in that sort of echo chamber of people that. are just like you or a lot like you. They think like you. They’re in the same place as you. There’s nothing wrong with having those people in your network. But if that’s all there is, there’s not a lot of point in having that network.
Steven: It’s a community. It might not necessarily be helping your business, though. All right.
Noah: That’s more of a support group than a network, which also there’s a good reason for support groups. Absolutely. Don’t expect your life to necessarily change as an inventor, just meeting other inventors.
Steven: So your extreme example is inventor groups. I’m trying to think of other, yeah, I guess any group that you’re in that you don’t see any progress in yourself or the people around you, that might not be the place for you.
Noah: I would say if you go to a networking event or just meeting people, like your kind of version is networking event, my version is meeting people, and you’re not learning anything new. And you’re not having any disagreements, even if they’re not like arguments, it’s like, oh, he does it that way. Well, I don’t like doing it that way. I do it this. way. But if you’re not having any of those thoughts or conversations, your network’s probably too narrow.
Steven: All right. So let’s move on to the next one because we get to talk Star Trek for a second. You need to be aware of the Klingons.
Noah: You do need to be aware of the Klingons. I didn’t know where you were going with that one.
Steven: You’re still not going to say your three Klingon words that you know.
Noah: No, I’m not. But it would give away all my passwords if I did that.
Steven: Well, everybody knows. one of them is Qapla’ because that’s the one Klingon word everybody knows.
Noah: Yeah, but who knows how to spell it? That’s true. You can’t even spell it in English.
Steven: The southern spelling or the northern spelling. Right. Yeah. Or Qo’noS, the Klingon moon. Anyway, so when it comes to people who cling too much as you network with other people, what do you mean by that?
Noah McNeely: You go on a date and you fall in love with the first person you go on a date with. You keep looking out the window. Oh, there’s a firetruck. That’s what’s going on. That is distracting.
Steven: And. an ambulance.
Noah: Hopefully they’re not pulling into our parking lot. They’re not. Okay.
Steven: And Jody will have to edit that.
Noah: No, no. I thought that was fun. Oh, clinging on. So in the inventor world, so let’s say you do get outside that sort of echo chamber and you do meet someone that’s like, hey, this person. They’re an expert on logistics or they’re an expert on manufacturing or engineering, whatever it is. And then that’s the only expert you ever seek in that area. So then you tie yourself to that person. You get all your engineering advice from that person. It may be good advice. It may be bad advice. How would you know? It may be advice that only worked for their particular situation. that doesn’t apply to yours. So the danger there is that you find someone that you think is… Your advisor, and they may be, but then you stop looking for other sources of advice.
Steven: Or listening, I guess, would be the way to.
Noah: Or listening to other advice. That’s where I’ve seen people run into that problem. I have people come in and they’re like, I worked with this engineer and he did. this thing for me and it was great and we built one and it was great. And then I look at it and say, yeah, but you can’t manufacture that. I mean, yeah, you guys had fun doing this and there’s nothing wrong with the advice he gave you. It just wasn’t complete advice.
Steven: So my version of actually going out to network your business, specifically going to a networking event, I would actually use the Klingon or the Klingons in a different way. The first time you go to a networking event, the first time you visit a group, you’re… You’re standing in the corner. You’re kind of like, I’m not sure. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to be obnoxious. I don’t want to be the person that just goes around and hands a card to everybody.
Noah: Hey, you just described me perfectly.
Steven: Yeah, right. You’re more the person in the corner with your little plate of hors d’oeuvres and like, I wonder if anyone’s ever going to talk to me.
Noah: I’m just going to sit over here and put out the vibe.
Steven: Correct. I’m just going to send out my thing. That’s why I.
Noah: have the baby blue tuxedo that I wear occasionally.
Steven: But one of the things that I’ve noticed is you go to those networking events and you find your first couple of, you have a couple of good conversations. You make one really good contact. And then when you go back, you’re looking for that person. Oh, I hope Noah comes because we had such a good time talking Star Trek. I’d like to see him again and we’ll keep talking. And you forget what you’re really there for, which is to get out of your comfort zone and meet new people. And guess what? It’s a math problem. That you go to a networking event, 90% of the people you talk to, you’re not going to do business with or they’re not going to help your business.
Noah: And 1% are serial killers.
Steven: Correct. Yeah. Well, less than that. You really are pinching this podcast, this crime podcast. Okay, I’ll stop. Product development, crime process.
Noah: So that person you’re describing there that goes and looks for the person they had a good conversation with before, that used to be me. Correct. When I would go to these things, natural introvert, engineer, Of course. And I’ve broken myself from this. I’m not that way quite as bad anymore, but that would be me. I would go look for, hey, where’s Frank? I want to go talk to Frank and I’ll hang out with Frank today.
Steven: And it’s not only just natural introverts, it’s just you’re putting yourself in a different, uncomfortable situation. And the people who say, oh, that doesn’t bother me. Well, then you’re just, you’re triggering into your training or you are a serial. Y’all heard because you, you know.
Noah: Very stalking that guy. Exactly. Hey, where’s Frank? I want to go find Frank and follow him home tonight.
Steven: So it’s okay. There’s wisdom in many counselors. So you meet, so in your situation, you meet that person who helps you with this one thing. Just because you had a good first date, that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to forsake all others. No, be open to hearing other conversations and other opinions, correct?
Noah: Absolutely. But I also think maybe. The other extreme is also bad. And, you know, I didn’t put this on my list because it’s not naturally me, but I’ve known people that they’ll go to these. events and they’ll have conversation, conversation, conversation, conversation, and they remember nothing. Correct. They’ll take all these cards like, oh, I taught this guy. I don’t even remember what we taught about.
Steven: Oh, that’s a problem. I’ve got the best example. Anybody listening to this who has been to chamber events or big networking events, small biz expo, anything like that, it’s the person who has read a book. And they’ve gone through a sales training and they’ve been taught a pattern. And the pattern is usually something like this. You don’t stay anywhere more than 60 seconds to 120 seconds at most. Everyone there needs what you have. And so you walk up and you go, hey, my name’s Steven. What’s your name? Oh, what do you do? And you’re not even listening. Oh, that’s great. I’d love to talk more about your business. You have a card. Here’s my card. I do this.
Noah: Sir, I just offered you a beer. That’s all. That’s my job here. I’m not here to know.
Steven: I said, my name’s Noah and I’m here to take your order. Yeah, that’d be great. You know, so and they just and the idea is you. just you float around the room, you get all the cards and then you’re out. Right. And I’m like, you’ve. There is no relationship there. So that is the other end of the spectrum. Yeah, but sometimes—That’s not Klingons. That’s the Romulans. They hit and run.
Noah: This is the opposite.
Steven: They hit and run.
Noah: Yes. All right. We’re going to end up with a Star Trek podcast.
Steven: That’s the only Star Trek for this show. Because you said Klinging on, and I had to talk about Klingon.
Noah: Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. And I guess, so—But now, one thing you said, they read it in a book. Whenever someone is in a meeting with me and they say, I read this—Insert business strategy here in a book. My eyes just naturally roll. So that’s great. That book wasn’t written about your business, but please tell me more.
Steven: They don’t say that anymore. They say on the TikTok channel that I saw.
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Steven: But the taste is just the beginning. With Opu, you. can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Try today at GetOpu.com. That’s GetOpu.com. So let’s talk a little bit about, let’s go to kind of a different danger. You kind of talk about, and I guess I would say it’s like, Owing someone a favor or a transaction, kind of you owe me. Break that down a little bit.
Noah: This is the slimy guy that goes out on a date with a woman, pays for dinner, and expects something in return. What does he expect, Nov? To go to a movie the next day. This is a family program. What’s wrong with you?
Steven: To have breakfast.
Noah: Yes, to have breakfast.
Steven: How do you like your eggs in the morning? Sorry, I was quoting the office. I’ve date Mike. How do you like your eggs in the morning? That was a shout out to my son.
Noah: Right. So these are, these are people that I’ve met plenty of and they, they, this is not necessarily inventors, although it can be, this is more, these are the kind of people who as an inventor you might want to look out for is. they, that was a weird hand signal. Okay. I think you were trying to communicate. Stay focused.
Steven: No, it was me saying I’m not going to look out there anymore.
Noah: Okay. The fire charge is gone. The bright red thing is gone. Don’t worry about it. So these are the people that they tend to treat the people they meet less like people and more like business assets. So they’re like, I’m going to introduce you to so-and-so and then they expect you to introduce them to someone back. Not as a natural. You know, evolution of that relationship, but really more as a, it’s like trading baseball cards. You know, I’ll give you this, you give me that. And maybe it’s not an introduction to a person. Maybe it’s, it’s whatever it is. You’re, you’re, you kind of become really more, you’re, you’re less, you’re treated less like a person. I think that’s the best way to, way to, way to phrase that.
Steven: Yeah. So instead of being treated like a person, you’re being treated just as An object or, boy, that really is a dating thing.
Noah: A means to an end.
Steven: Yeah, right. And you use the word, I think you put in the notes the word transaction. I think that’s very apt and apropos. I think as you’re building your network, as you’re going and meeting people, I think everybody needs to have permission to just kind of, some people want to rush everything and some people want. So everything’s got to be even, right? So the other thing I would say is there is the slimy person that’s like, I want something in return. There’s also a non-slimy aspect of this, which is, well, I gave you, so let’s go to the networking event. Let’s say you’re part of a closed networking group. Jody and I have both been part of closed networking groups. And sometimes there’s this thing of, well, I gave you a referral. When are you going to give me a referral? And it’s like, well, in my line of work, my clients don’t go, hey, by the way, do you know a good roofer? I don’t get that question a lot. Now, if I’m walking the neighborhood and, or I’m talking to my neighbor and they’re like, yeah, we think we’re going to have something on, you know, we need, we’re trying. to touch up the house. Well, listen, if you need any roof work done, I’ve got one in my group. They’re great. You know, so there’s that.
Noah: That’s organic, which is, that’s the important key there.
Steven: It grows out of the relationship and it’s a recognition that if you’re part of, if you’re networking with other people or you’re at an event, just because I, you got me a referral. I’m going to try, but I don’t owe you a referral. It’s more that it just all naturally grows out of multiple relationships.
Noah: I may not meet someone that needs what you do for months or even years. And I’ve had situations like that. It’s like, oh, I do know a guy that does that. And I’ll go back and look him up. And it’s like, let me connect you. And that’s the right way to do it.
Steven: So the rule here is don’t ever let anyone buy you dinner.
Noah: No, take the dinner.
Steven: Just when you sit down, go.
Noah: Just after you’re done, say, okay, now take me home. Not your home, my home.
Steven: Right. And say, I don’t owe you anything. How about just, yeah, I guess like, hey, that was fun. Let’s do that again. So anyway, next time I’ll pay. So another topic is. you kind of talked about the army of wingmen. I was trying to think of a different variation of it, but that’s such a great phrase.
Noah: You know, I was trying to come up with something there and that’s the best I came up with. And I kind of liked it too. So the army of wingmen. So tying it back to dating, these are the guys that, or girls, that introduce you onto a lot of blind dates when really their agenda is they want to meet your friend or whatever it is. You know, they have a secret agenda there. So in the world of business, what I mean there is, there are people that I do have relationships with or have had relationships with. In business, where everybody wants a referral fee. You know, so it’s like, you know, I’ve entered into these agreements in the past. I don’t really do them anymore because I generally find they’re not that effective or not that good. It’s like, I will send you a client, but I want a commission back. or whatever it is. Now, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that structure. That’s okay. I just don’t like disguising it as networking. And for a couple reasons. One. I don’t want, and I’ll get to why I don’t want to be that wingman either, but I don’t know that it serves the client that well because then everybody’s upcharging their, you know, what they do. And that creates a whole kind of army of middlemen or wingmen. Now, the reason I don’t do it is, and there are people that do the kind of business I do that do engage in this. It’s like, well, I’ll connect you with my patent attorney. And on the back end, that patent attorney is sending them a check or whatever. Again. Legally, whatever, that’s fine. If that’s how you operate, that’s how you operate. It’s not how I like to operate. because one, because frankly, I’m good at what I do. I stay pretty busy and I don’t need to latch onto someone else’s job in order to bring money in. Two, I don’t have time for it because now if I’ve connected you with somebody and I’m the middleman, well, I got. to be that middleman and I’ve got better things to do. The way I operate. In fact, I ask both people permission. Hey, Frank, John over here, he can help you. And I think you need to talk to him. John, I want to send you Frank. This is what he’s up to. I think you can help him. I get that permission. Then I just connect them both by email. And I say, hey, if you guys feel free to connect without me, if I can help, feel free to call me. But otherwise, I’m going to step out.
Steven: I’m going to ask you a very interesting question that I don’t think you probably weren’t expecting. this potentially. People in this scenario. Who they really want to meet your main person or they have their own agenda. People have approached you and said, I’ll bring you leads, but I expect a commission?
Noah: Yes, I’ve had that.
Steven: Because the only scenario I’ve had, the only scenario I’ve seen is there is definitely the people that go, hey, if you bring me a referral, I’ll give you a referral fee. I get that all the time. Insurance people say that. I’ve. had other business leaders and things go, hey, I’ll be happy to send you a referral. A referral fee for bringing someone in. I’ve never had someone demand like, oh, I’ll get, but I guess in the world of projects.
Noah: Demand is a strong word. You know, it’s always in a nice, fluffy business way.

Steven: I guess I would almost be like, hey, because if you’re, if I’m that person and I’m saying, hey, Noah, if I bring you a client, I would really appreciate kind of a referral fee back. I really am almost asking for a commission and I’m now. I’m now a, what war just went out of my head, a lot of things went out of my head. Anyway, I’m now a business consultant. I’m consulting, and that fee is the consulting of introducing them to you.

Noah: And let me talk about something which I think relates more to your industry, and that’s the concept of a fiduciary, where you have an obligation. If you’re a fiduciary, you have an obligation to do what’s right for your client. I’m probably misphrasing this. Even if it’s not in your own best interest. And I tend to view. myself more in that vein. I mean, there’s no such thing as a fiduciary in engineering, but I want to do what’s right for the client. And if I’ve got, you know, someone that does whatever package production in my network and I get a referral fee for sending people to them, that kind of skews the math a little bit in a way that may not be great for the client. They may be the best packaging company for that client, but they may not be. And I’m like, oh, if I send them to… To John, I’ll get a $500 check at the end of the month, but John’s going to overcharge him, but I want the $500. That’s not right for the client in most cases. It’s just not appropriate.

Steven: So I think our listeners are hopefully learning something. I think they may be yelling at their device because I think this is a topic that everybody’s kind of probably gotten their hands a little wet in this and gotten their feet a little dirty kind of going through all this. Not to correct you, but just to expand the concept of a fiduciary, I would say the biggest issue of it is you are completely transparent. So what actually what I would do as a fiduciary is I would say, hey, I’m going to refer you to this attorney. And just so you know, I’ve done my due diligence, but I do receive a referral fee from this attorney. That’s why they’re my first referral. I have another attorney if this one doesn’t fit or I’m going to give you these two, but I am going to disclose that I get. I get a referral fee, you know. And so that’s actually a great question to ask. Is there any financial benefit to you? If somebody’s telling you, you got to talk to this person, do you financially benefit from this? And it’s not wrong. We’re both saying it’s not wrong. Just in a fiduciary, I would disclose that.

Noah: So here’s how, you know, I don’t know if this is the right time to go into this, but the way I financially benefit from referrals. Is not really in that sort of finder’s fee way. It’s more in the sense that when I find the right person, like the right, you know, this is a person. that’s really good at putting licensing deals together. And I’ve seen that they do it and they do it well. And people, you know, they’ve got good reviews and I’ve seen it in action. I will refer people to them, not because that person is going to write me a check for that one client. But now down the road, when they run into somebody that needs engineering or design work, They already know I did good work. Who are they going to send that person to? They’re going to send them to me. And that’s how I benefit financially. It’s less transactional. It’s more relationship-based.

Steven: And the other side of that, too, I think you would agree with this. And I think there isn’t anyone who has been around any kind of business that doesn’t recognize, well, that’s what networking really is. That’s what it’s supposed to be. Correct. That’s the best use of networking. And the other thing I was going to say is, The other reason you don’t get financially benefited, but when you send that person to that patent attorney, the other reason you’re sending them to that patent attorney is because you know beyond, you. know, you have sent multiple clients and almost every single client, if not every single client is gone. What a great experience

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: