Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Noah will do anything for inventors, but it won’t do that. Shout out Meat Loaf. And if you want to know what that is, you’ll have to listen next to Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes, it’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Welcome to another wonderful edition of Product Genius. Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. That’s a down draft of the music there, Jody. That was a good job. Noah, we need to talk about something.
Noah: I’m sure we do.
Steven: Yeah.
Noah: We need to talk about a few things.
Steven: Oh, there are a lot of things, but there’s one specific thing. As the slightly annoying co-host of the show, I start the show off so. I get to choose. I’m choosing. You can choose to shut me down if you want. But we’re repeating a topic in a way, but we’re going to repeat it without really saying the exact same things over and over again. Correct?
Noah McNeely: I didn’t realize we were repeating anything. Oh. Yeah, but maybe.
Steven: You said that to me. You said we’ve talked about this before.
Noah: Did I? Yeah, I think you did. I forget more than I remember these days.
Steven: Well, we’ve done this show for a while, and I think we’ve kept it fresh, we’ve kept it entertaining, and there are certain topics that we circle around. Is that fair?
Noah: True, and I’ve gotten older and grumpier, so this will probably be a very different take. As have I.
Steven Julian: We are staunchly in the get-off-my-lawn phase of our lives.
Noah: I think that as you have children, you lose your patience until one day you have grandchildren, then it all comes back.
Steven: Ooh.
Noah: That’s another show. Wow.
Steven: Okay. Table that. Jody, make a note. We’re going to, yeah, producer Jody. You get to do some producing. All right. And I was going to make a comment about the opening of. the show because I was just listening to it and I was like, maybe we need something fresh. We need something new. We need something peppy. So now I’ve turned it into a complaining session. So I’m not going to do that. All right. We are going to talk about people who work with you. And we are going to, you brought this topic as we tend to do in the pre-show. Hey, what do you guys want to talk about? What are we thinking about? By the way, that’s a great wrestling gimmick. So what do you want to talk about? And we’re going to talk about the most counterintuitive part of what you do. What is that?
Noah McNeely: Well, according to my notes, what it is, is I very often tell people not to spend any money with me or anyone else, which…
Steven: That is counterintuitive.
Noah: Why would I do that if I’m running a business?
Steven: That is not profitable. And you are not a nonprofit. You are a for-profit business.
Noah: How many times do you walk into Walmart and somebody stops you in the door and says, don’t spend any money here.
Steven: Excuse me, you need to leave. because this is not for.
Noah: I would say only one in 10 times. Yeah.
Steven Julian: And then you found out that it was just some crazy person at the front of the store.
Noah: Not a guy that works there. Yeah, right.
Steven: Exactly. So, yeah, you sometimes tell people who come to you, it’s not like you just find random strangers, hey, don’t spend money with me. These are people who have come to you and said, I got this great idea or I want you to help me with my product.
Noah: By the time I’m 75, I might be doing that on the street, just randomly grabbing people and saying, don’t spend any money with me today.
Steven: So do you do this because you don’t like people?
Noah: Absolutely. I don’t like some people. No, that’s not.
Steven: And some people that you don’t like, you do shows with. I’m just kidding. Just kidding.
Noah: No, you’re one of my favorite people. Both of you are.
Steven: Oh, my mom used to say, Steven, you’re my favorite youngest son.
Noah: Were you actually the youngest?
Steven: Exactly. Exactly.
Noah: No, I like people just fine. A lot of people I like, but that’s not the reason why I. tell people this.
Steven: So the reality, so some people would go, well, that’s because you’re just, you know. You’re so far along in your journey and your career that you just, you know, you get to be very, very selective. Is it just because you’re like, well, if I can’t have them, I don’t want anybody else to have them. So I’m just turning people away because I’m too busy.
Noah: No. In fact, I would say it’s more because I do like people. And that’s not even quite right. It’s because I don’t like to see people make horrible, horrible mistakes. And, you know, when I was younger, Just starting in engineering 25 years or so ago, the goal or the attitude was just take on every project because it’ll be fun. We’ll figure out a way to do it. It’s going to be great. Right.
Steven: Because you can do anything.
Noah: Absolutely. Then as you become more mature and you learn through mistakes that, oh, okay, maybe we shouldn’t have taken that project on or whatever, and for a lot of reasons. So these days, I am at a point in my career where I don’t need to do that. I’ve got plenty to do. I don’t need to talk someone into doing a project with me just to do a project.
Steven Julian: So if you’re saying yes to somebody, so if you’re saying, if someone comes to you and you’re choosing to work with them, you go, yep, I’m going to take on your project. What are the top two or three reasons why you, Noah, of Product QuickStart are going to start working with somebody?
Noah: You’re turning it upside down. You’re not going to why I say no, but the why I say yes.
Steven: I’ll get to why you say no. I just want to bring an air of positivity at the start of this show. Let me be the host.
Noah: Be the host, by all means. I’ll ask you why you said yes to do this show at some point. There are a few things. One, is it someone I can work with? You know, we’re going to have a good relationship, working relationship, or is it someone that I just see all sorts of just interpersonal problems right away? And, you know, sometimes you see that. Sometimes they hide it pretty well and you don’t see it. until six months later. But, you know, you try to avoid those. But really, a lot of times it’s I see a possible, at least a possible pathway for them to get to where they’re trying to go. Now, does that mean I’m right all the time? Absolutely not. Sometimes that pathway doesn’t pan out. But at least on day one, I don’t see, okay, there’s no way this is going to make it.
Steven: You’re not just looking for projects. You’re looking for, first of all, you’re looking for a relationship. You kind of said, you know, it’s somebody you want to work with, but you’re really looking, you’re trying to look ahead and see, do I see a success?
Noah McNeely: Well, yeah. And at this point in my career, I’m looking for stories I can tell, success stories, people that we can have on this show to talk about those success stories. But also, you know, those success stories, and I’ll say what success means in a couple of different ways, but those success stories help me become better, of course. But they’re also stories I can tell other people, whether they work with me or not. Fred did this. and it worked out and this is what he did. And it’s more positive things I can talk about, stuff I can put in my portfolio. It’s more and more reasons for people to want to work with me because I am success-oriented.
Steven: So your dreams of writing the great American novel never came true. So you can write your success. You can write, instead of a novel, you can write a… Business story with someone and help them get to success. And you probably never wanted to write the great American novel. You just wanted to write the sequel to The Secret of NIMH, which you never did.
Noah: Well, I’m working on it. Yeah, still.
Steven: Okay.
Noah: It’s going to be a crossover with Pokémon.
Steven: Oh.
Noah: We’ll talk about it.
Steven: Okay. So we are, let’s go back to the negative. Let’s go back to the no. You tell some people not to spend money with you. You’re telling them no. If I said how many different reasons are there, do you have a list? Is it 247 at this point?
Noah: Well, it’s long enough that you made fun of my list when you sat down and looked at my notes.
Steven: I. believe I may have yelled out an expletive that I’m glad is not on the air and I ask for forgiveness.
Noah: Be prepared to bleep stuff out, Jody.
Steven: We’ve done that on this show, but anyway.
Noah: We have. We’re going to try to keep this one from being labeled explicit. Explicit.
Steven: Yeah, go ahead.
Noah: I’m sorry, I lost the question. That’s all right. In that rant.
Steven: There are some, so what are some of the big no’s? You know, you have a big no’s.
Noah: Well, that’s number seven on the list.
Steven Julian: Sorry, I apologize. So what are some of the main ones that you are going to be kind enough to tell somebody to not spend any money with you?
Noah: Well, I mean, it really comes down to the person or the idea slash business approach. And if I don’t see a possible path to success, then I’m going to say no. And that can be for a lot of reasons. It’s just not a good idea, frankly. And I hate to say that. And I never tell people, hey, your idea is just terrible in so many words. But I do walk through some of the reasons why at. least I think it’s not a good idea. Am I wrong sometimes? Absolutely. And sometimes they may go on. They may have a wild success with it. I don’t have any examples of that.
Steven Julian: Yeah. I don’t think you track everybody. you said no to.
Noah: I don’t. And no one’s ever come back and said, ha ha, you are wrong.
Steven: Remember that one conversation we had? Well, they don’t come back because you didn’t laugh in their face. You did say it kindly. Yeah. So sometimes it’s- So you don’t see a path to success. And one of those things of not having a success is, hey, there’s no real market here, right?
Noah: Right. So sometimes people have this, it seems like a cool idea and it’s, hey, I made this thing, do this thing. Isn’t that cool? It’s like, yeah, who’s going to buy it? And why would they buy it? And what problem does it solve?
Steven: Because I made it. I would buy it. Okay. My mom would buy it.
Noah: Why don’t we make you one? And then, but the real problem there is they don’t have a business. So the way I, or they don’t have a. business plan around how to make that a successful business. So what I try to do in those cases is. Help them go up a level. Why did you make this thing that’s super cool? Or why did you come up with this idea that’s super cool? Is there a problem you were trying to solve? Is there an opportunity you’re trying to take advantage of? That sounds negative. Is there an opportunity you’re trying to maximize? That’s the other way of saying that. You don’t want to take advantage of people. But anyway, what is that kernel of why you set out to do this? And sometimes the kernel is just, hey, I was just having fun in the garage and there’s no… In those cases, I don’t know where to send you. But if it’s like, it’s hard for me to change the oil in this car. Okay, fine. Let’s look at it from that standpoint and say, okay, is it just hard for you because it’s just that one specific car? Is it just because it’s you? What’s the real problem? And who else might have that problem? And can we grow this product in a way? that addresses the problems of more people? Can we grow that market? At the end of the day, if it’s a market of only, you know, 100 people, that’s not going to be a business. We have to look beyond that. So that’s one way I sometimes see there’s no future.
Steven: So we have covered the topic of patents on this show off and on. We’ve talked to patent attorneys. You’ve talked about the shysters who try to get people to. just all that matters is a patent. So I would imagine there have been some big no’s or some triggered no’s around the topic of patents for you.
Noah: Yeah, on a couple of different levels. So sometimes you meet people that sometimes I like to call them patent worshipers and they fall into a couple of different categories. There’s one is like, absolutely got to patent this thing and it’s got to have a patent and yada yada. And can we patent it? So at the end of the day, you can probably patent most anything. The question is, is there really something you can protect with that patent or is your patent? It’s going to be so tight. and narrow that it really doesn’t do you any good and you just spend a lot of money. And not every product has to be patented. There’s no law against selling a product that’s not patented. It’s just you have a different strategy around that. But the ones that are real problematic for me are the ones that come in, they’ve already got a patent. And they sit down, they tell me about what their business plan is, their patent and this, that, and the other. And they start looking at that patent as it’s a recipe. We got to build what’s in the patent. Like, okay, but… If we build what’s in the patent, there’s 12 better ways to do what you’re doing that are not covered by your patent. So do you want to build something in your patent and have someone else build something better and then you have no business? Or do you want to build the right product? But some people are so married to that. Well, I spent $10,000 on this patent. Well, number one, you should have done that. Number two, you should have talked to me first. And number three, I’m sorry. for you because that patent doesn’t protect anything. It protects this one idea, this one… That narrow solution to the problem you were trying to solve, it does not protect the business you’re going to launch.
Steven: I’m going to give you a test because I’ve done this show long enough with you. I have every confidence you can pass this test. You are amazing at coming up with examples that don’t really exist, but that display your idea perfectly.
Noah McNeely: I’m a little scared of where this market goes.
Steven: Well, just can you give an example, not of one you worked with, protect the guilty here, but what would be an example of a patent that is so narrow that, and I guess I’m sitting here, I’ll have a terrible example because my mind doesn’t work the way yours does. So what’s an example of somebody who would come in with a patent that does exactly what you just said? Oh, yeah, I’ve got this patent for an arcade machine, but the case has to be in gold. And so everybody has to pay $20 to play one game.
Noah: Let’s take it to a real simple example. A fictional, obviously fictional. example. Let’s say chairs and stools and benches didn’t exist. Okay. Yeah, obviously they do. But let’s say they didn’t exist and you were the first person to come up with something to sit on. and it’s a stool. And you go out and you patent the stool and that’s what you want to build. And that’s great. Your stool’s patented. It’s a three-legged stool. Fantastic. And then you’re sitting with me and I say, well, you know, it’d be better if there were four legs. Nope.
Steven: It has to be three.
Noah: We’re not doing four legs. It’s going to be three legs because that’s what’s in my patent.
Steven: Because the patent specifically says three legs.
Noah: Or what if it had a back to it? You know, like, nope. Not building a chair. Building a stool. It’s got to have three.
Steven: Well, they wouldn’t say you build a chair. Not building some other product that has a back to it.
Noah: We’re not going to build a stool with a back. You know, whatever it will be. So that’s, I mean, that’s sort of a silly example.
Steven: No, that’s a great example. That’s a great example.
Noah: What I do run into. sometimes.
Steven: That is a great example.
Noah: Some people, patent worshipers, they put so much emphasis on that patent process, which, you know, patent attorneys come in all different shapes and sizes. People know, people listen to the show know Brock. He’s great. He would never do that. But some people just… You go and you hire them, they’ll just patent what you tell them to patent, and that’s fine, but they’re not looking out for your business. They’re not strategizing with you about your business.
Steven: By the way, if there’s anyone listening from the Church of Patentology, we do support the general overview of the truth of patents. Patents matter, right? Patents are important, but they can’t be misused.
Noah: Good patents matter.
Steven: Good patents matter. And bad patents are worth the paper they’re printed on.
Noah: They’re worth less because you spend a lot of money. Correct.
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Steven Julian: All right. So we’ve talked a little bit about solutions. We’ve talked as far as some of the reasons. you would say, no, please don’t spend money with me. Talk a little bit about the people. This gets a little delicate. This gets a little, this can be troubling or not troubling. This can get you in trouble depending on how you talk about this because sometimes it’s just not a good fit from people. So what are some of the things you’re looking for? that?
Noah McNeely: Maybe I’ll give some of the more extreme cases here to keep it amusing. But, you know, sometimes I meet people who think they’re doing me a favor by letting me work on their project. And, you know, some people do have amazingly good ideas, but they think that, you know, I’ll work on it at a huge discount. Or I’ve even had some people like, hey, you’ll work on this for free and I’ll give you some shares or whatever. I don’t do that. And there’s a lot of reasons for that. Number one, even if it is a great idea and I do take ownership in it, there’s. a lot of stuff you have to do right to get that to the market that I can’t help with. Number two, I don’t care how good your idea is. I’ve seen a lot of good ideas. And frankly, I’ve got some myself I don’t have time to work on. So you’re not doing me a favor to let me work on your idea for free. I’d be happy to work on your idea, but just like anyone else, I have to get. Get paid for it. And if you come in and that’s your attitude is that this idea, which you’ve scribbled on the back of a napkin, is worth more than anything else in the world, including my time, then we’re probably not going to have a great relationship.
Steven: Jody, I want you to make a side note. We need to have a show where Noah talks about some of his own ideas that aren’t necessarily great. I don’t want you to give away any of your great ideas that you’re not working on, but I know you’ve had some ideas that at one point you thought were great, and then you started thinking about it and go, well, that sucked. That was terrible.
Noah: Yeah, I try to forget those.
Steven: Yeah.
Noah: I have to go back through my old notebooks.
Steven: The first book I ever started to write, never finished it back when I was a youth pastor. I was going to create a book. that’s what we’re called. Youth ministry games that don’t suck. And the reason I was going to write that is because there were so many games that did suck. And then as I started writing it, I went, well, these suck too. So I decided I can’t write a book.
Noah: So it ended up being a book with one page of it? Yeah, exactly.
Steven: Figure it out. I can’t help you. When you talk to people, you talk to a lot of people, you talk to a lot of different type of people, a lot of different types of personalities, a lot of introverts and extroverts. You have to develop trust with them, but it goes two ways because you’re working on their product. Have you come across where all of a sudden, either almost immediately or very quickly, do you have some examples of, yeah, I’m going to say no because I. don’t trust you? And you probably don’t word it like that, but.
Noah: Yeah, I mean, the whole, the let’s make a deal, I’m doing you a favor guy kind of falls into that category a little bit. But then there’s also, I’ve had people come in, Here with, they brought a whole entourage with them of three people that they all have business cards and they’re all dressed in suits. And, you know, it turns out that that was all fake. They were all kind of on this board, but the board didn’t exist in three days before he came into the meeting. So it was just, I don’t know why some people feel like they need to appear to be something they aren’t in order to get me to work with them.
Steven: If they created a board three days before, if it was still a good idea, would you, or was it also like, this is ridiculous?
Noah: It would have to be an amazing idea.
Steven: But they were presenting themselves as we’ve been doing this for a while.
Noah: They were presenting themselves as being much, much further along than they actually were. And to me, that was a problematic. for a couple of reasons. Number one, what else will they be dishonest about? Number two, that kind of shows. they don’t trust me to make the decision to work with them just based on them. You know, it’s kind of like… It’s kind of like dating, which we’ve had a show on. If you feel like you have to pretend to be someone else to get the girl to like you, she’s not the one for you.
Steven: Yeah, you’re right. I would imagine we have to bring up the topic of money when it comes to saying yes or no, you know, saying yes, I’ll work with you or no. Again, you’re not just about making the money, but… But it might also not, but when I say let’s talk about money, I’m not even talking about the money they’re paying you. It might have to do with the money around their project. Right.
Noah: And that’s, you know, that’s one of the reasons I actually try to give prices out very early for my, you know, when I start to scope out a project for somebody. Let’s say they pass these other tiers. Hey, we get along. Well, they. trust me. I trust them. It’s, you know, I don’t see any immediate. I see a fairly clear path to production. Well, at that point, I’m going to scope the project out in very broad brush terms and put some numbers on that. And to your point, the numbers I’m putting out there for my services, they’re not the biggest numbers that are going to be involved. So if those numbers, again, which are lower than the average, well lower than if you go to other firms that work with bigger companies, if those… Numbers are way too big for you. Then you’re never going to be able to get this project across the finish line. There are a lot of people out there that will happily take your money to get you halfway there. And that’s really not what I want to do. So oftentimes those people, I try to explain to you, look, this is, this seemed like a big number to you. So that’s problematic because this is really one of the smaller numbers that you’re going to run into. So we really need to focus your efforts on how can you go out and raise money? How can you use other people’s money for this? Don’t hire me to fully engineer this thing because you’re not ready for that yet. You need to think about how to most use what resources you have to get other resources.
Steven: You’ve said it a few different ways on the show over the years, but that whole path to success, just the fact that if somebody has absolutely zero clue of what the path is in terms of money, in terms of time, in terms of effort, in terms of steps. When you meet with someone and they’re going, you’re all of a sudden realizing they have no clue what this is going to take.
Noah: And, you know, sometimes they’ve gone to Upwork or Fiverr and hired someone to do a CAD drawing for them, which is, you know, let’s pay this guy $300 to do it. And it’s like, okay, but it’s wrong. It does not reflect the way you produce a product. You know, we’re never going to get there.
Steven: Yeah, it’s never going to happen. Apologies to our listeners if you heard that little noise in the background. We just had Frank come to the door, Noah, of Frank’s Cheese Hammers.
Noah: Yeah, he brought us a delivery of hammers and a cease and desist letter. And for some reason, the hammer I pulled out is engraved with… Die, Noah Die.
Steven: Yeah, mine says Die, Steven Die. Jody, did you get one that says Die, Jody? No, I guess not, because he never talks on the show.
Noah: Everyone likes Jody.
Steven: Everybody likes Jody. Everybody loves the producers. Yeah, so, which I’m not sure if Frank’s trying to make peace or, I know the war’s not over. No, certainly not. So, Frank of Frank’s Cheese Hammers, you can go to hell. All right. Anyway, just to continue that. We bleeped it out, I’m sure.
Noah: Yeah, I’ll help him design his next round of cheese hammers.
Steven: Exactly. We’ll figure it out. I believe it’s cheese cleavers next time, right? Or cheese, not cheese graters, it’s cheese tenderizers.
Noah: Well, it’ll be AI-powered cheese tenderizers.
Steven Julian: The other, I think the longtime listeners of this show, we say it almost every time at the end of the show, there’s probably one other. Trigger for you at least one other. that’s kind of a big no, which is I have an idea. People who. just want to invent something, right?
Noah: That’s me.
Steven: I just want to invent something, Noah.
Noah: I have an idea can be fine. That’s not necessarily a bad thing other than the fact that it doesn’t give me any information to prepare for our meeting with, you know, because that can be everything from. it’s a new type of cereal or which I can’t help with. It’s an AI-powered cheese hammer, which I probably also can’t help with.
Steven: How does AI power a cheese hammer?
Noah: That’s the mystery, isn’t it?
Steven: Have you plugged cheese hammers into AI lately? Oh, I know what we’re going to do after the show. Absolutely.
Noah: We’re going to do that. All right. Yeah, so sometimes I run into people and they just are desperate to invent something. I had a client I worked with years ago. He came up with this idea in this one industry, which was, it was fine. It wasn’t a bad idea, but then he’s like, I want to do something different because that one wasn’t paying out. So then he came up with an idea in a totally different industry. These are all industries he knew nothing about. So he was. just like, hey, I heard this could be a problem and I’m going to go solve it. That sometimes does work out and that’s fine. But if your goal is just to invent something because you want to be an inventor, that’s not ideal. You really want to think about what are the business. I mean, otherwise inventing is a hobby for you and that’s fine. You want that to be a hobby. That’s great. But the people I prefer to work with are those that really want to build a business and understand what that means.
Steven: If you want to build a better mousetrap, you should have at least trapped at least one mouse in your experience. That’s right. To then figure out how to do it better.
Noah: And you should say, okay, who’s going to buy it? Who am I developing this better mousetrap for? And should it really be for mice?
Steven Julian: It’s AI powered and it costs $10,000, but it’ll get rid of the one mouse that comes through your house every decade. All right. So when you say no, what does that mean?
Noah: Well, I don’t typically.

Steven: No means no. I’m sorry. That was the obvious one.

Noah: No means no except $20,000. Yeah. No means no. But I don’t actually just say no. I’ve never said no, get out. I don’t think I’ve ever said that.

Steven: That’s another challenge for me to try and accept and have him do.

Noah: So I do try to have what I would call a good bedside manner about these things. So if I do see a problem, let’s say it is a business problem. You’ve got this really expensive solution for a really inexpensive problem. Okay, it’s a new mousetrap that’s going to cost $300. That’s going to replace a 50-cent mousetrap. Okay, so that’s a problem from a business standpoint. If I see that right out the gate, I’m going to give them some homework to do. I’m going to say, okay, go think about the business plan. Who would buy this at these prices? And understanding that it has to be this price because you’ve got this AI system and all this other stuff going on with it that other mousetraps don’t have. Who would buy it? Is there a market? Can you build a business around that? If it’s something like… It doesn’t have that clear market potential. Whatever it is, I try to give them some homework to address whatever the problem I see. that, at least in my mind, is this is definitely not going to make it kind of a problem. I give them homework and say, you know, I really am not comfortable taking on the project without these things being resolved. And it’s stuff I can’t resolve. Now, if it’s an engineering problem, that’s what I do. I can help you figure that out. Design problem, I can help you figure that out. Business plan problem, that I can’t help you with. I can give you suggestions on, hey, what you need to fix. Some people, they really appreciate that. I never hear from them. Some people really appreciate it and they come back. They go and solve it and they come back. I’ve had people that, you know, they’ve disappeared for years and then they come back and say, hey, you know, you were right. That was a bad plan. I’ve done this now. It’s no longer going to be an AI powered mousetrap. It’s going to be whatever. And we work together. I’ve had clients that, I had one client disappeared. for six years and then he came back and we worked together and I helped him get his product developed. Nice. About half the people kind of get pissed off at me and I never hear from them either. Again, they’re just like, well, I don’t understand why it won’t work with me and this, that, and the other. I’m willing to pay.

Steven: They take it personally.

Noah: They take it personally. It’s not personal. I’m actually trying to look out for you. And my fear for those people is they’ll just go out and find the next engineer who is glad to take their money and get them halfway there or get them a third of the way there or just to keep. Keep billing them to do stuff. that’s never going to get anywhere. Now, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt that some of those engineers and developers, they just don’t understand that it’s not going to get anywhere. They don’t see it the way I see it. And they’re just putting their head down and doing their job as engineers. That’s fine. I get that. That’s still not helpful to the client at the. end of the day. And then others are like, I’m sure there’s some unscrupulous people out there that’s like, oh, this is the best thing ever. I can see where you’re going with this. This is going to be fantastic. I bet you’re going to be on the market in two years and you’re going to make millions of dollars to pay me.

Steven: Yeah, we interviewed Evil Noah.

Noah: We did. Evil Noah is based on real people. Yeah. Sadly.

Steven: And maybe the dark corner of your soul that you keep down because you’re doing the… Good of the good Noah.

Noah: No, there’s no dark corner to my soul. Oh, okay. All right. Do you have some personal issues you need to talk about?

Steven: Oh, I got tons of them, but that’s another show. So, yeah. And, you know, okay. So, actually, I’m going to ask your forgiveness because I started the show by saying we’re revisiting the topic. I don’t think we’ve ever done the topic like this. But everything you’ve said in this show has been a piece of another show that we’ve done.

Noah: Well, that’s true.

Steven: I mean, not everything, but most everything we’ve talked about.

Noah: Slicing it. different ways sometimes helps get the point across differently. And it helps. Sometimes I’m thinking about the same. I realize I’m thinking about the same problem. It doesn’t feel like the same problem, you know, but it. On some level, sometimes it is.

Steven: Well, and there’s

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: