Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: So picture this. You’ve got 30 years of clinical work behind you. You are trying to solve a medical problem in your community. You found what you think is a great solution from an old technology. So what do you do? You get your team together. You introduce yourself to Noah McNeely, and he does a little archaeological engineering and helps you come up with a great new product from an old technology. Next on Product Genius.
Meryl Kaufman: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.
Steven: Hey, that’s my line. Yes, it is your slightly annoying co-host, just like she said. See, that’s why I’m slightly annoying. It’s me, Steven Julian. Welcome back, I have to say, to the greatest podcast about product development and getting your products to. market and having a little bit of fun and not taking yourself too seriously. All that known as Product Genius. I am seated next to… Jody Smith, the intrepid producer, I am seated across from the genius that brings all the other geniuses to the table, Noah McNeely. Noah!
Noah: Happy New Year.
Steven: Happy New Year. You know, Pete Holmes says, I say that as long as I can throughout the year, because no matter what point it is in the year, it’s a new year based on this date.
Noah: Why don’t we say it every episode?
Steven: We should. Well, I have my little schticks that I do. You know, that’s my line. That’s a shout out to my son, the massive wrestling fan. And so, you know, that can be your schtick. You can say Happy New Year.
Noah: I have this doctor specialist I see once a year. And every time I see him, he goes through the whole list of holidays. And it’s just amusing.
Steven: Of the entire year?
Noah: Of the entire year. Holy cow. Happy New Year, Happy Valentine’s Day, yada, yada, yada, all the way up through.
Steven: There’s a show somewhere where we’re not going to get. anything accomplished, but we’re going to talk about the creation of days. Hey, it’s National Donut Day. Hey, it’s Sibling Day. You know, who is behind this cabal of wasting our time?
Noah: National Useless Day.
Steven: Exactly. Exactly. I think there’s maybe one, there should be one day on the calendar. It’s nothing today. So that would be what, agnostic day? I don’t know. So, hey, we’ve got a guest. We do. Someone you’ve worked with in the past that is just about ready to launch a product.
Noah: Yeah, one of my favorite clients. And I’ve actually, she’ll have to help me remember, but I feel like I’ve known her for eight, nine years, something like that. I almost said six, seven.
Steven: I can’t wait to ask her.
Noah: But I didn’t want to say six, seven, because I think it is eight or nine years.
Steven: That’s another show.
Noah: My 12-year-old would go nuts with the 60s.
Steven: You know what cracks me up? Nobody knows where it came from or what it means, which I’m like, so why are we talking about it? And we’re talking about it on this show. Exactly. So there’s agnostic as well. Anyway, we have Meryl Kaufman. here. She is the founder of Georgia Speech and Swallowing. Meryl, welcome to Product Genius.
Meryl Kaufman: Thank you. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Steven: Absolutely. So Georgia Speech and Swallowing. Your company is focused on advocacy, outreach, education, and product development for individuals who’ve undergone laryngectomy surgery, which is removal of the voice box and the larynx. So you are in the midst of… A of launching a new product that’s taken a few years, apparently, somewhere between six and eight or longer. So let me get out of your way and just give us a little bit of the backstory or what it is and what you’re in the middle of developing and about to bring to market.
Meryl Kaufman: Awesome. Happy to do that. And yes, Noah, it’s been just a little more than the six, seven, eight years now since I’ve known you. We met in 2018. I am a speech-language pathologist. I have specialized in head and neck cancer care and treatment and advocacy for over 30 years. I’ve done that mostly through academic medical centers. I still provide patient care. It is my passion and my love, and it’s a privilege to be able to. work in that world. laryngectomy specifically has been my focus, which is the removal of the voice box because typically it’s cancer sometimes. Other reasons may lead to that, but usually it’s because of cancer in the voice box. And the surgery laryngectomy basically removes your ability to produce voice. And in doing so, it separates your upper airway from your breathing. So basically, you breathe through a stoma in your neck and you swallow in and out of your mouth. And in order to speak in the natural way, you have to somehow get air and sound into your mouth so that your lips and tongue and palate can then turn that into words for speech.
Steven: You with me? Yep. I’m with you. Keep going.
Meryl Kaufman: Okay. So if you remove the voice box, you no longer have a sound source and you no longer have a way to get that sound into your mouth for speech because you’re breathing through a stoma or a hole in the front of your neck. Okay. Now, there’s a lot of negative connotation for people who’ve had laryngectomies. I’m sure we’ve all seen those scary commercials on TV with like, don’t smoke or. this is going to happen to you, which really isn’t fair. You know, a lot of most, it’s never a patient’s fault. Plenty of people smoke and don’t get laryngectomies or larynx cancer. And plenty of people who have laryngectomies never smoked a day in their life. People do have the surgery. People do go on and live full lives. I’ve worked with CEOs and teachers and realtors and newlyweds. You can live a full life as a laryngectomy, but you do have to learn a new way to speak. And that’s what I’ve had the privilege to do for all these years.
Steven: So before we talk specifically about the product, let me just ask, before you started really developing this product, What were some of the main ways that people would learn to speak without a voice box?
Meryl Kaufman: Yes, that is a great question because that’s what led me to create this device. So really what people are most familiar with are two main ways to communicate. One is with something called an electrolarynx, which you’ve probably all heard that kind of robotic, electrosounding voice that people sometimes hold something to their neck and they say, one, two, three, four, five, and they sound like a robot. That’s called an electrolarynx. The way that works is it produces an external vibration that makes a sound and then you couple it to your neck or your cheek so that sound goes into your mouth and then your lips and tongue turn that into speech. It’s very easy to learn. It’s very inexpensive. It’s typically the first way of communicating after you have a laryngectomy. But in general, people don’t love it. It calls a lot of attention to itself. It sounds very robotic. You have to use a hand to use it. So it’s not ideal, but it’s perfect for some people. And for some people, it’s enough. There are some Medicare limitations. You can only have one every five years and blah, blah, blah. There’s always things like that that get in the way. That’s kind of the ground level entry point for speech after laryngectomy. The kind of other end of that, the gold standard, the thing that people really like the most, that achieves the most natural sounding voice is something called a tracheoesophageal voice prosthesis. But the short term for that is a TEP. And what? that is, is that’s a surgically implanted little device that goes. Into the wall between the breathing tube and the swallowing tube and lets air from your breathing tube into your swelling tube or esophagus then vibrates your throat to make a sound like a burp basically and brings that sound into your mouth so you can use it for speech, which is great. It sounds very natural. You can eventually get to a place where you can even do it hands-free where you don’t have to cover your stoma with your hand. But it’s not for everybody. And one of the reasons it’s not for everybody is because access to care is limited. Financial resources can be limited. Surgical reconstructions or prior treatment may limit it. Your anatomy. There are lots of things that make it unattainable for some.
Noah: So that’s a much more expensive and limited type of solution. Is that correct?
Meryl Kaufman: It is. It is. And it takes a lot of personal responsibility to take care of it. They have to be changed every so often. They leak, which can cause problem swallowing, coughing, choking when you swallow, which can lead to aspiration. They have to be. properly maintained. But the biggest barrier, or one of the biggest barriers, is the Medicare reimbursement structure is such that it’s really unsustainable for medical facilities to provide it long-term because of the way that Medicare is set up. Which is how I got on my journey.
Steven: There you go. So I have a feeling you’re, so you kind of talked about the, forgive the, well, you kind of talked from one end of the spectrum to the other. The electrolarynx is relatively ubiquitous, kind of low cost, and then you have this gold standard TEP. So Georgia speech and swallowing, one of the reasons it was. Found it or started or one of the things that came out of it is you started this journey to develop this product. Tell us where it fits on that spectrum and what it is.
Meryl Kaufman: Perfect. So, yes, I started the journey because as an advocate for many, many years through a nonprofit that I helped found, the Headnet Cancer Alliance, I was able to advocate to try to change the limitations that are keeping patients and clinics from sustaining TEP without sustaining too many losses and to help meet patients. The. end result of that is that I went all the way to Washington, D.C. with a team of advocates and stakeholders, patients, doctors, the national organizations that support us. We went to the Department of Health and Human Services. We met with the Medicare and Medicaid people, and we gave them all the information that they needed to adjust the rate of reimbursement to make this accessible to all. And we failed miserably. Nothing changed. We gave it the best possible effort we could. And basically they said, well, not much we could do.
Steven: All right. So before you continue, let’s all in the studio and all of our loyal listeners, let’s all pause for a moment because we’re all in shock that the government. Of any party, I’m not picking a party, actually was ineffective, inefficient, did not listen to common sense, did not listen to experts.
Noah: Usually those solutions are rolled out immediately.
Steven: Yeah, I’m shocked, Meryl, that they didn’t, you know. So anyway, okay. So thankfully, that’s not the end of the story.
Meryl Kaufman: Optimist that thought that I could change the world.
Steven: You can, just not through the U.S. government. Anyway, I apologize. Continue. Yes.
Meryl Kaufman: No, that’s. okay. So after failing miserably on that front, I decided I left my clinical job. I was in a position where I have all this experience and all this knowledge and all these resources and relationships through 30 years of doing this. I decided, let me see if I can do something better. Having been in the field for so long, I remembered that there’s this old technology from the 70s that was developed called a pneumatic device. And there were some really proficient users that I had met through the years that used this device. And basically, it’s like a musical instrument. It has an external reed that you can couple to your stoma, which is that hole in the neck. And as you exhale, it vibrates. That read to produce a sound. and then you can take this oral adapter basically like a little straw that goes into your mouth and takes that air and sound from your stoma to your mouth to produce a more natural sounding voice. that’s not as electronic as the electrolarynx because it’s powered by your air and a reed within the device. Wow. So I did not invent that. That is. old technology. It’s not available in the United States. There are a few countries that have something similar, but it wasn’t up to today’s. anatomy, surgical procedures, stoma, stoma accessories. All the things that patients use now as compared to the 70s didn’t really interface. So what I did is I took that old technology and that old concept and I updated it to meet the needs of the today’s laryngectomy with the goal of creating a low-cost, low-tech, easily accessed to everybody worldwide device that can be used in addition to an electrolarynx or TEP or instead of an electrolarynx or TEP.
Steven: So, Noah, I’m going to bring you in at this point, and I’m going to say, at what point did you, where was Meryl at in her journey when she met you?
Noah: Wow. You know, eight years ago, I’m getting, I turned 51. My memory’s not quite what it used to be.
Steven: Listen, you brought her on the show, so you better figure it out.
Noah: Okay, I’ll do my best. So, yeah, she’ll fill in what I leave out. But as I recall, and there are a lot of things that I found really interesting about Meryl and her project when we met. And, you know, we can cover that at some point today as well. But as I recall, she had this really old device. And Meryl, was it called? A Tokyo device or something like that?
Meryl Kaufman: Exactly. Yeah.
Noah: Okay. So this thing, and she came in and the story, as best I remember, is like, hey, there’s this old thing. It worked great. Nobody knows how to make it now. And we can’t figure it out. Nobody can figure out the, you know, how we even made it work, which actually turned into. a big part of what we did was trying to figure that out. I’m not sure we ever really, really got to the final physics of it, but we came to some other solutions. So she came in and she’s like. This is where I’m at. And I want to make something that will help as many people as possible, which, you know, A, that was a gold star for her. I was like, I’ll definitely work on this. And I think that she, early on, she identified all the different layers of the problem here. You know, A, it’s got to. work. B, it’s got to be inexpensive to get in the hands of as many people as possible. C, it’s got to be something people. And then D is kind of the one that’s overlooked is you’ve got this government problem of, you know, it’s will Medicare cover it? How do you get Medicare to cover it? You know, how do you get all these obstacles to work around? So it was all these sort of problems rolled into one. And that may not have all been on the first time we met, but that’s, you know, my memories kind of pulled some things together.
Meryl Kaufman: Yeah, that’s pretty close.
Steven: Oh, hey, you got a gold star for Meryl on your memory.
Meryl Kaufman: I think he nailed it. Yeah, he nailed it for sure.
Steven: What are some of the things to this point? as we’re recording this? And as of right now, the product is still not officially on the market, although it’s getting very close. And depending on when people listen to this, we’re going to give you contact information so people can see if and when it has gotten to market by the time they’re listening to this. This process. that you’ve gone through, and I guess the first question I would ask, at the time when you’re talking to Noah, you know, seven, eight years ago, are you thinking, oh, by, you know, it’ll only take, this will be ready in a couple years, or were you, given that you’ve had 30 years of clinical practice and being around the medical community, it might be, I know this is going to take a while. Is it kind of gone? Mostly the way you thought? Has it gone completely different than the way you thought? Talk a little bit about your experience in this journey of finding this old tech or reinventing it and trying to bring it to market.
Meryl Kaufman: Yes. It’s taken a long time. A lot of that is because I’m a clinician, not a business person. And I came into this. You know, trying to solve a problem to help people. I didn’t come into this to make millions of dollars or to grow a giant business or, you know, I really wanted to bring something to the table that solved a problem and could, you know, change the landscape a little bit. And so, you know, I had a lot to learn from there. Noah really helped me. When I came to Noah, I had… So I found Noah after I hired a patent attorney, Brad Chowalke, who was fantastic. And he helped guide me through the provisional patent application process. And he informed me that I was going to need an engineer to help me get a prototype and get some CAD designs and drawings for this patent application. And he directed me to Noah, thank goodness. And I met with Noah and had the conversation. he just explained and said, hey, this is what I’m trying to do. And this is where I want to go. And both Noah and Brad were just so incredibly supportive and patient with me and my lack of understanding of the whole process and how things work. And, you know, they gave me things to read and videos to watch and books. So they really helped me kind of hone in on some of those business skills that I just don’t have as a clinician. So that was really one of the main limitations. A passion project is one thing, but to make it come to life is. another. And I am proud to say that I was able to file the provisional patent in 2018. We filed the formal patent in 2019. I defended it to the examiner’s board after they originally denied it, which what I understand is they almost deny everything. So I had an opportunity to defend it. In kind of mid-21 and was awarded a U.S. patent at the end of 2021. And then I signed a licensing agreement about a year ago. So, you know, made it happen. It took a little while. Some of that was complicated by the fact. That 2020 happens in the middle of all of that.
Steven: Right, right, right. Yep. And that affected everybody’s timing on everything. So we can factor that into the equation. Absolutely. Yeah.
Meryl Kaufman: Yeah. And so after 2020, so I had some NDAs, I had some conversations, you know, I was talking to different distributors and people and trying to figure out, okay, how do I take this to the next step? Once I had my kind of rudimentary prototype and the plan. But 2020, definitely, you know, people were being more cautious with where they were putting money. I was being more. cautious. Everything just kind of slowed down a little bit. And then, you know, I am a clinician and my passion is taking care of people. So I kind of put it aside and thought to myself. I will know when the right partner shows up. I will know. I will trust my instincts. I’m going to go to my professional conferences. I’m going to talk to people. I’m going to utilize all these relationships that I’ve developed over the last 30 years, and I’m just going to follow the lead. And that led me to Rob Christensen. He has a company called CranioRehab out of Colorado where he… He develops products and works with small companies like myself within the field of speech pathology and creates products, kind of adjacent type products. And I had a conversation with him at a professional meeting and he liked what I had to say and I liked his company and I liked what he was offering. I just wasn’t sure he was far along enough for me at that point and I wasn’t sure I was far along enough for him. So we kind of just exchanged information and let it. pass. And then about a year later, I saw some of what he was publishing. I got a newsletter in the mail. I saw him at a different conference, and I was really excited about the direction his company was going. So we had another conversation, and I told him what I was doing, and he really liked it, and he felt like the right partner for me in that the mission was to do something for people. I was able to stay attached to it and engaged with it. And really, it feels like a true partnership. I like that. So that’s how I got to where I am. Yeah.
Steven: I like that.
Meryl Kaufman: Yeah.
Steven: So I feel like before the government comes and takes me away, I need to also make a note at this point in time, at this point in the show, that we should also have another moment of pause because even though they rejected it the first time. Hats off and a tip of the cap to the U.S. Patent Office for having a process that Meryl could go through and actually see a result at the end of the tunnel and allow her to. go through. Right, Noah? Yeah.
Noah: And hats off to, you know, she mentioned Brad Trewonky, who I know from college. He and I met freshman year at Georgia Tech, as I recall. And that’s another story. He remembered me years later, which was fantastic. But hats off to Brad and people. I can know how to navigate that because, you know, if you try to navigate that on your own, it’s just it’s very hit or miss.
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Steven: That’s GetOpu.com. And Noah, I want to ask you, kind of coming back to the conversations you had with Meryl and the help that you offered her at the… A critical part of this journey of hers. On this show, we’ve talked a lot about how you help entrepreneurs and inventors, and you’ve talked a lot about being an inventor and developing a product. And the thing. that I find fascinating in this case study that you’ve brought to us and this guest you brought is here’s an old technology. To try and kind of reverse engineer or recreate in today’s world. What were some of the things that excited you as you were looking through this? Well, knowing that very little excites you because your heart rate stays at 45 most of the time.
Noah: I wish I was that healthy. I’m not quite that healthy. I think if my heart rate dropped to 45, I’d die. So, well, the first thing, frankly, that interested me and excited me about the project was Meryl and her approach. Because, and she touched on some of this herself, that she has a lot of the things that are kind of check marks I look for when I see people have a good chance of succeeding. And number one, she wasn’t inventing something just to make money. You know, there are a lot of people I run into. That’s their goal. It’s like, I want to invent something so I can become rich. It’s like, that’s okay. That’s not really how it works.
Steven: The Pet Rock. Go repeat it.

Noah: Yeah. And then of course she has passion for it. I mean, she wants, her goal here is not to have a product on the market. I mean, it is, but her goal here is to help a lot of people that she runs into every day in her, you know, in her practice that need that sort of help. And she’s got deep expertise in the area that she’s developing a product in. She’s, you know, sometimes I run into. Hey, I’m a nurse, but I invented a plumbing product. Okay. It might be a great plumbing product, but tell me about your expertise there. But Meryl hit all those things really well. But I’m sorry, go ahead.

Steven: No, go ahead. Finish, finish.

Noah: But I think you started the question around old technology becoming something new. So I was excited about that because, A, it showed that people had attacked this problem in the past, meaning it’s a real problem. Been around clearly for 50 years, well, forever. It’s not going anywhere. There’s a need for it. And there’s some reason, I was also kind of intrigued by what she told me. It’s like, hey, they used to make this. thing and everybody that knew how to make it is dead or whatever, because nobody knows how to make it anymore. So I was like, okay, that is one of the most interesting stories I’ve ever heard. I want to be part of finding a way to bring this into the modern era.

Steven: So what part did you play? What were you able to do? Are you able to share that or is that proprietary or what? I feel like you’re teasing us here, Noah. Come on, give us the goods.

Noah: Oh, well, again, Meryl can probably fill in stuff because, you know, I work on a million projects, so some of it runs together. But we went through a lot of exploration of how do we recreate some of what was going on with this old device. And we looked at everything from like wind instruments and how they work to duck calls and how they work. All sorts of different, we had all these prototypes of trying to get this little reed to vibrate just the right way when you pass air. You know, your throat, as you inhale, exhale, the air passes in and out at a. certain rate and range of rates. And how do you get that just right vibration with that? And then you have the tube that goes up to your mouth. How do you transfer that vibration up there? What materials? It was just a whole bunch of little challenges to attack.

Steven: So, Meryl, let me ask some specific questions about this product, this pneumatic product. When it hits the market and will be working, does it require surgery for someone who’s had a laryngectomy to get this put in?

Meryl Kaufman: That’s a great question, and the answer is no. It does not require surgery. It doesn’t require a plug or a battery. Just very rudimentary, easy to use, easy to learn, easy to access.

Steven: Compared to the pricing of from one end, the electrolarynx to the TEP, where is this in terms of price of getting started and also upkeep over time? What are the goals?

Meryl Kaufman: The goal is to price it below an electrolarynx. Wow. Yes. Now, I say that in full transparency. I have a partner in my licensing deal who has taken this from me, the clinician, to a place where he is creating, developing, marketing, distributing, and using. all of his resources to bring it to market. So he will guide us on pricing and he will guide us. He’s going to navigate. You know, insurance and codes and all of these things. And so all of that is going to come into the cost. You know, I have a pie in the sky, you know, unrealistic expectation because I’m a clinician who’s just excited about a product to bring to my patients. He’s the realist who understands, you know, the obstacles that are going to get us there. The reason I partnered with him is because he understands that the goal is low cost, easy to access for all, which is a win for us.

Noah: And I think that fundamentally, you know, your product, just the materials used, the way it’s constructed, and et cetera, it should intrinsically be less costly than the others over time. Now, it may not start that way because, like you said, you got to pay for all that regulatory and everything else. that he’s, you know, that whenever you launch a medical or medical-adjacent product, there’s a lot of costs that goes into that that you’re going to have to recoup. But over time, it seems to me that this will get… This will attack your goal of making this universally available.

Steven: And I would assume your partner is also, and you’ve got some background in this as well, but your partner in the licensing and working through that, you talked about coding, getting it coded so that insurance may reimburse if not part, then all of it. And again, to the insurance companies, if it goes in even in the same ballpark, let alone less, Then an electrolarynx, then that’s a win-win for insurance as well as the patient to be able to have this as a second option to the, you know, what we’ve seen on commercials and movies all the time. And, you know, so to have something that’s more natural sounding, I guess, would be the way to. That’s correct. Yeah. Okay.

Meryl Kaufman: Yeah, that’s exactly right. And accessible. So, you know, there are all these missions that go to other countries, you know, Project Smile, where they go and work with people who’ve had cleft palates, you know, other kind of medical missions. But I’ve been invited to go on to those and I’ve never been able. to participate. because what am I going to bring? You know, I can’t bring a surgical device and I can’t bring a $500 electrolarynx, you know, so that needs a battery or a plug. Like, how do I do, how do I help? Bring people what they need if I don’t have a product to bring to them. So, you know, hopefully I read, you know, when I was starting this business, one of the books that I read was the Social Entrepreneurship, the Tom Inventor, who did a lot of that, you know, buy one, give one kind of entrepreneurship, which also weighed into my mind. Like, how do we do this in a way that is not purely just about reimbursement and money and how much we charge it, but what impact we can have? And yeah, so all of that comes into play.

Steven: All right. So we’ve come to the time for the payoff for our listeners because so one of the things I just want to state one thing, one of the things I find fascinating is as we hurtle forward and always looking for the next new technology, I think it’s fascinating that you. found an old technology that is Perfectly suited for what you’re trying to accomplish, which is more access to good or better care than what people currently have with newer technology. I think it’s fascinating. I think the fact that you’re willing to navigate the wipeout level obstacle course of Medicare and health insurance and the current way that people who practice medicine versus paying for that practice of medicine, it just, man.

Noah: Well, again, she’s looking at all the facets of the problem. Correct. Not just make it work better, make it universally usable or easy to use, but also the whole government. And cost side of this, that’s a big chunk of the problem here.

Meryl Kaufman: It absolutely is.

Steven: And Meryl, if we had five more hours, I’m sure we’d maybe tackle 20% of that part of the topic, right? So, yeah, but you’ve painted a wonderful picture. I think all that’s left to do is there are people listening who probably know someone who’s gone through cancer of the head and neck and maybe had a laryngectomy or have one coming up. How can people keep track of this product that, by the way, I know the name. is not yet to be determined. I just want to confirm, you’re not naming it the McNeely or the Noah, correct?

Noah: Please don’t.

Meryl Kaufman: You know, I thought about it, but it just didn’t seem to stick. Yeah, that wasn’t going to be it. That was Noah not here because, you know, the point that you made about going back to older technology, when I came to Noah, I had… Several ideas. This being one of them. I also had a Bluetooth device. I had other kinds of higher tech things that I wanted to go with. And Noah really kind of steered me in that direction. And like, let’s focus on this because. Technology is changing so rapidly and something that we, you know, it’s taken us six years or eight years, whatever, to get here. You know, eight years ago, the technology was different than it is right now. And it’s hard to keep up. There are a lot of inventors out there in the field right now with AI and voice banking and all of these really interesting and exciting new ways to approach this. But it’s all changing so rapidly. It’s all very expensive to achieve. And. so, yeah, that is. You hit the nail on the head when you highlighted the fact that we looked back instead of looking forward to solve a simple problem.

Noah: Yeah, well, there comes a point where a wheel is a wheelie. You stick with what works, right? You don’t want an AI wheel. We don’t? Well, why would you? And your point about AI tech and others changing so quickly. I mean, if you’re writing an AI tool right now, it’s going to be obsolete by the time you publish it. Right.

Steven: All right. So we’ve mentioned AI and we’ve mentioned 6.7. I better stop this show before something really get off the rails. Yeah. So tell everybody how they can keep up. Yeah. Yeah.

Meryl Kaufman: Yes. Let’s go back to where we were. Okay. So CranioRehab is the company that I’m working with and they have a website, craniorehab.com, I believe. Let me confirm that.

Steven: Is it C-R-A-N-I-A? C-R-A-N-I-A?

Meryl Kaufman: Cranio like head. C-R-A-N-I

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: