Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Imagine, if you will, a world where Noah doesn’t have his client’s best interests at heart. A world where Noah believes that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Evil Noah: Will you shut up already and get to the show? This is about me. You’re taking my time.

Steven Julian: It’s Evil Noah, next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes! It’s a very special edition. Of Product Genius. Very different. Very weird. Very avant-garde, shall I say. I am your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. I am seated next to the intrepid producer, Jody Smith. I am seated across. Not from Noah McNeely. No, no, not this time. It’s different. He calls himself Evil Noah. It’s Evil Noah McNeely.

Evil Noah: That’s. what people call me. Now, I don’t normally talk to people to use French words in their intro, but I’ll make an exception.

Steven Julian: Okay. Jody, we have to be on our best behavior. I don’t know if I can do that. So, first of all, is regular Noah okay?

Evil Noah: As far as I know. I haven’t seen the guy. Okay. So, this… I’m not like. evil kill people. Correct.

Steven Julian: Correct. Yeah. So let me, let me ask you that. Can you define?

Evil Noah: So you sent a different Noah.

Steven Julian: Yeah. You sent an email, uh, you sent an email as, as Noah normally does and said, I think it’s time an interview with evil Noah. So please define for our audience what you mean by evil Noah. Cause this is actually Noah. So define what you mean.

Evil Noah: You want me to explain the meaning of the word evil?

Steven Julian: Yes, because apparently that might even be up for debate and everybody calls the other side evil.

Evil Noah: I’m not going to get into a theological definition of evil, but let’s just say this is a Noah that doesn’t have inventors’ best interests at heart and is representative of a lot of actual real. people, maybe evil, maybe not, that real Noah has met along the way.

Steven Julian: Correct. Okay. So this is an amalgamation character. Okay.

Evil Noah: I’m doing a caricature of people I try to be the opposite of. Very good.

Steven Julian: So, Bizarro Noah.

Evil Noah: Yep.

Steven Julian: Which apparently Jody brought up that in some past episode, you thought that could be an excuse for lazy writing. I think, I don’t know. Yeah.

Evil Noah: But it’s not the excuse here because I didn’t write any of this stuff down.

Steven Julian: Correct. Mirror universe or mirror, what?

Evil Noah: Mirrorverse.

Steven Julian: Mirror realm. Yeah. Mirrorverse from Star Trek.

Evil Noah: They don’t use the word realm. Hold on.

Steven Julian: Calm down. The mirrorverse in Star Trek where evil Kirk and Spock and all them. The Justice League had that. where there was Owlman and Ultraman was the Superman. Rick and Morty, which I don’t think you’ve ever seen, but Rick and Morty had that one episode where they’re in a different, they kind of split their personalities. So again, this is an amalgamation character of not evil, but people that interact with inventors, entrepreneurs different than regular Noah does.

Evil Noah: Well, yeah. Maybe not evil, but certainly not good.

Steven Julian: Yeah, not have their best interest. All. right, so do you want to tell us how you got here?

Evil Noah: I don’t know. There’s a guy wearing a robe. He had this thing in his hand, started waving it around, and there was this sparkly little circle. I walked through, and next thing I know, I’m here, and you’ve got Starbucks everywhere, and it’s, yeah. Very good. Yeah, it’s a place, I guess.

Steven Julian: Well, where you came from, what’s that like?

Evil Noah: It’s a lot like here. It’s, you know, some things are different. We have pumpkin spice all year long. Wow. Miley Cyrus is the president. I don’t know why everyone here laughs at that whenever I say it.

Steven Julian: Yeah. Is she doing a good job over there?

Evil Noah: Well, fortunately, Steve Buscemi is her vice president, so he keeps her in line.

Steven Julian: So who’s really?

Evil Noah: She’s the one who mandated the pumpkin spice all year long. Yeah.

Steven Julian: Don’t you get tired of that?

Evil Noah: Of course.

Steven Julian: Okay.

Evil Noah: I’ve never enjoyed pumpkin spice and now we’re stuck with it.

Steven Julian: So you also, in the other world, you work with inventors and entrepreneurs just like Noah does here.

Evil Noah: Yeah, I work them over pretty good.

Steven Julian: That’s not what I asked. That’s. not what I said. So what’s your philosophy when it comes to working with inventors and entrepreneurs? What’s your, not Noah McNeely of Product QuickStart, but Evil Noah of… Product bad start. What’s your philosophy when it comes to working with inventors?

Evil Noah: Well, most everybody has an idea. And the people that have a little bit of money, my job is to get that money and tell them how great their idea is while doing the minimum amount of work. That’s my philosophy.

Steven Julian: Got it. And do you have some success stories of… Uh, of, of doing that.

Evil Noah: Oh yeah. One, this one guy got 30 grand out of, and he, he got nowhere. He had no idea what was going on. He was happy.

Steven Julian: What was the idea? Or have you forgotten that?

Evil Noah: No, it was this thing that is a, it was a, I don’t know, it was this box that would pet your dog for you or something. Okay. Yeah. Who cares?

Steven Julian: Have, do you have any success stories of, for the inventor, where the inventor actually succeeded working with you?

Evil Noah: Um, I don’t know. Once they stopped paying me, I kind of, you know, I kind. of lose track of what they do. All right. Maybe some of them had what they call success. I doubt it. They were all, you know, I work with anybody.

Steven Julian: So I, we, for longtime listeners of this show, when they’ve talked to our Noah, I don’t know if he’s ever, I don’t know if he’s ever answered this specifically, but he talks about the clients.

Evil Noah: That guy’s a chump.

Steven Julian: Okay. He talks about, he talks about his clients and, you know. We’ve kind of asked what’s the ideal client that comes to him. And it’s someone who has an idea and has started to work on the idea, some level of kind of knowing some information. And he gets to help them bring their product to market. What does your perfect, how do you spot the perfect client in your world?

Evil Noah: Well, they think they have a great idea. They are open to lots of suggestions. Oh, well, that’s good. Not every suggestion is going to work out for them, I guess, but they’re open to a lot of suggestions that are going to cost them a lot of money. They’ve got deep pockets and they have no idea. how much things cost.

Steven Julian: Give an example of some of the suggestions you offer that are good for you.

Evil Noah: Well, you know, if we can add some electronics to anything, that’s going to at least double or triple the product. Well, probably more because they have no idea. Even if it’s a button with a wire, they don’t know how complicated. We’re simple that is, but I can easily add 10 grand for that.

Steven Julian: Okay.

Evil Noah: That one skateboard with a button we did, that was fantastic.

Steven Julian: Didn’t you have a product that like, is it the more, are you trying to help them get the product to market or are you trying to just keep them constantly changing because of more suggestions?

Evil Noah: Well, like I said, my philosophy is to get all the money I can out of them. If they get to the market before they use up all the money, eh, that’s okay. I don’t really care. My goal is to take them all the way to the end of their bank account. Ah, so that means the market.

Steven Julian: Is that your mission?

Evil Noah: Yeah, I mean, it usually, I don’t know. Like I said, after they stopped paying. me, I kind of lose track. Some of them probably made it to the market.

Steven Julian: So when someone comes to you, and by the way, how do you find your leads? How do you find your clients?

Evil Noah: Well, I do a lot of advertising, mostly with pop-up ads, and I’ve got this robot that calls people on their cell phones.

Steven Julian: And that gets a great response? Are people happy to get that?

Evil Noah: Well, in my universe, people will just hire you to get those calls to stop.

Steven Julian: Ah, so you do the calls. And so the first potential client you have is people who go, can you get these calls to stop?

Evil Noah: Yeah, absolutely. Well, they’ll at least listen to you. I’ll listen to you if you’ll stop calling me. And so, you know, then I can tell if they’re a sucker right away.

Steven Julian: And when someone starts with you and someone reaches out to you because of that pop-up ad, what does the first conversation look like? Where do you start? What’s the process look like?

Evil Noah: Well, you know, I tell them how great I am and all the stuff I’ve done and all the, you know, been president. of this, that, and the other. And then they go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about what their ideas have. I don’t care what it is. I’m telling them, that’s fantastic. That’s an amazing idea. You know, they’ll go into like, they’ll get all excited, of course. Like, we’re going to sell a million of these. I’m going to get a Walmart. I’m going to get in Target. I’m going to do all this. I jump in and I say, no, you’re thinking too small. We’re going to sell 10 million of these. And we’re going to get into every store in the country, Canada, and in Europe. Wow. Hey, it makes them happy. You know, they’re happy. I’m doing my job.

Steven Julian: Hmm. Hmm. Interesting.

Evil Noah: Real easy to get them to sign a check after that.

Steven Julian: And then is it, so what’s the percentage of people who write a second check? How do you keep them on the hook?

Evil Noah: Well, the secret there is you don’t go after one big check at a time. You know, you get a starter check and then you go back to them and say, hey, look, we’ve been working on this thing. It’s a. little different than what we thought. Here’s an opportunity. If we add a button, You know, we can make it this much better. Write us a little check for that. Then a couple weeks later, we go back and say, hey, if we, you know.

Steven Julian: If we make this a smart device that creates a Wi-Fi network.

Evil Noah: Yeah, whatever. Whatever crap we want to make up. The secret is you can’t get all the money at one time because, you know, they’re not going to go for that. But dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble. You can get all the money eventually.

Steven Julian: So one of the most important things is just get them on the hook, right? Get them to do something. Get them to start. And the way you do that is telling them, oh, you’re not going to sell a million.

Evil Noah: Well, you have to get them to the point where they feel like they’ve invested so much already that they have to keep going or else they’re going to throw all that money away.

Steven Julian: Interesting. Now, you said in the very first call that you throw at them how smart you are and the different letters. Yeah, they don’t. know. Can you do a pitch meeting? With us, can you do a 30-second, can I call you into character? Imagine I’m sitting across from you, I have an idea for a Brian Snitker memorial doll since he just stepped down from the Atlanta Braves and I want to put him in stores and I think there’d be a lot of Braves fans who would buy this. What would you say?

Evil Noah: That’s a great idea. You know, I was an expert in memorial dolls for years. I developed a bunch of those. He’s not dead. Well, you know, he will be eventually.

Steven Julian: Maybe he should get some life insurance.

Evil Noah: Absolutely.

Steven Julian: I got to even know to laugh.

Evil Noah: Well, you know, we laugh. Usually I’m laughing after the client hangs up, but you’re not a real client. So I tell them about all the dolls I’ve done and how. I can’t give them any specifics because that’s all confidential. You know, I say, well, we’ve got a lot that have been on the market and I have never done a doll. But anyway, they don’t know that. I tell them about all the degrees I have. What degrees?

Steven Julian: Tell us what. your great degrees on that side.

Evil Noah: That’s probably the same as your. Noah here has, you know, engineering.

Steven Julian: He’s never told us about his degrees.

Evil Noah: Like I said, he’s a chump.

Steven Julian: Oh, okay.

Evil Noah: So I tell them about all this stuff and all this, you know, use all these fancy words like engineering stuff that they’re not going to understand. I make up half of it anyway. You know, like, what are they doing that? You have Star Trek here, right? I do. Yeah. So what are they doing? Star Trek? They have this, you know. That’s a technical word that means absolutely nothing. I do the same thing. It works for most people. If it doesn’t work on them, that’s fine. I’ll have five calls later in the day and I’ll work on one of them.

Steven Julian: The anti-gravity quantum containment field?

Evil Noah: I’m going to use that.

Steven Julian: I like it. You’re welcome. I’ll send you a bill.

Evil Noah: What was your question about the typical sales call? Okay, so I go through all that and then tell them how great their ideas are. Hey, your ideas. We’re role-playing here. It’s a great idea. You know, you’ll sell that in every Walmart. You know, even though it’s like a Brave specific thing, I think we can market that just right all over the country.

Steven Julian: They’re known as America’s team.

Evil Noah: Well, exactly. Yeah, yeah. The superstars. Everybody’s watched it. Everybody’s a fan. You just don’t realize it. So we’ll get that everywhere, you know, probably six months to get it developed.

Steven Julian: Okay.

Evil Noah: It’s really going to take a lot.

Steven Julian: I can get this into Walmarts in six months?

Evil Noah: Probably, yeah. I don’t see why not.

Steven Julian: You can help me do that?

Evil Noah: Of course. That’s what I do. All right.

Steven Julian: You kind of talked about not getting the big check up front, but just continuing to get those checks and keep them on the hook. What are some of the things you charge for? How do you typically charge to get that?

Evil Noah: Well, I charge for the first call. You know, there’s a consultation fee on that first call.

Steven Julian: Noah doesn’t charge for the first call. Oh, he’s a chump.

Evil Noah: Yeah, I’m figuring.

Steven Julian: Jody, write that down. Noah’s a chump.

Evil Noah: Again, my role is to take all the money I can. So I charge for that first call. That way, even if they don’t. want to do the project, I’ve already gotten a little money out of them. I charge by the hour. And, you know, I’ll give them this estimate. The estimate’s always, I always lowball the estimate. And then. And we get in and, well, there’s more stuff to do here than we thought, and it’s a little more complicated. But that’s good news because that means your product is really unique. Nobody else is going to do it. And so, yeah, it’s a good thing that it’s complicated. I’m spending more time on it. You want me spending time on your project, right? So the hours add up. And so I’ll charge them for pretending to do engineering. I’ll charge them for… Market research that I’m just pretty much making up or I’ll have, you know, you’ve got AI here, right? So, you know, I’ll ask the AI, you know, what’s, how do we market this, you know, stupid little doll thing? Well, I’ll fancy it up a little bit, spend maybe 30 minutes on, I’ll give it to them. It’s probably a $2,000 report and, you know, kind of judged by how thick it is and, you know, we’ll charge. them for that. And I don’t know, what do I not charge for is probably a better question. And the answer is nothing.

Steven Julian: If they’re in your office and they get- Oh, there’s a fee for that. Oh. Yeah.

Evil Noah: So I got to wear shoes.

Steven Julian: If they get a coffee?

Evil Noah: Oh, well, there’s a fee for that. It’s included, but- Well, we have a coffee machine. you put dollars in.

Steven Julian: Oh, okay.

Evil Noah: Wow. They’re not paying me, they’re paying the machine, but I get all the money later. Oh.

Steven Julian: So talk about patents in your world. What role do patents play for Evil Noah?

Evil Noah: Well- It’s really frustrating to me sometimes when people come to me and they’ve already spent money on a patent because that’s money I could have gotten. But if they have, I’ll kind of use it to my advantage and I’ll say, look, the federal government, the federal government thinks your idea is worthy of a patent. So you’d be stupid.

Steven Julian: Miley Cyrus thinks my idea is worthy of a patent?

Evil Noah: Or Steve Buscemi, whoever, you know, I don’t know who runs the patent office these days, but yeah, it rolls up all the way to. them. Point is. If the government thinks your idea is good enough to get a patent, you’ve got to spend whatever it takes to get this on the market because it’s going to be a success. I mean, the government says so.

Steven Julian: People buy that?

Evil Noah: It’s enough due to, you know, pay for my yacht. Whoa.

Steven Julian: Wow. Interesting. So, I think you’ve already kind of been answering this question, but let me ask it in a more direct way. What is your approach, Evil Noah’s approach, to product development?

Evil Noah: Slow. Slow and no progress. Slow, slower, slower. Whatever minimal amount of progress we have to show to keep the client on the hook is what we do.

Steven Julian: So Noah, our Noah.

Evil Noah: Yeah, our process is, you know, we try to break it up into about 35 different phases. Okay. And each phase has sort of a minimum fee associated with it. And we’ll do phase one of 35, put out a very small deliverable, charge them for it. Then we’ll do the review meeting, which we charge them for. And then we’ll, you know, we’ll get their feedback, which means we’ve got to change everything. So we’re going to charge. them for that too.

Steven Julian: So our Noah has talked a lot. On some of our shows about trying to help people get a minimum viable product, you know, the MVP, get that product to market to see if it’s a sustainable thing. I’m hearing you, that you feel like your role is to do the minimum amount of progress. So map.

Evil Noah: Well, I mean, we’ll eventually sometimes get there, but we don’t do that. I don’t understand the minimum viable product approach. Why would you? Why would I want to do that? I can’t.

Steven Julian: Because the inventor entrepreneur.

Evil Noah: That’s going to be quick. I’m going to get done. I’m not going to be able to charge them much.

Steven Julian: Well, the inventor entrepreneur is trying to make a business.

Evil Noah: So? We’re talking about my business. Why would I care about their business?

Steven Julian: Isn’t your business to help their business? No. When you help their business, doesn’t that lead to more business? Because they tell others about you.

Evil Noah: Yeah, there’s plenty of inventors out there that are desperate for someone to tell them how great their idea is. I don’t need them to tell anybody how great I am.

Steven Julian: When you tell. them how great their idea is, do you use a different tone of voice than you’re kind of using with me? Because it sounds like…

Evil Noah: Oh, yeah, of course.

Steven Julian: Put on your best pitch voice.

Evil Noah: So I can tell you’ve done a lot of research here. I can tell you looked at the market. You’ve really thought about this problem. That really impresses me a lot. In fact, you’re… Probably one of the most impressive inventors I’ve met this year. So I love the fact that there’s a really large target market for this. And I think, you know, even though it’s probably going to be a $300 product, there’s a market for that. We can make this happen. Is that a little bit better? It’s a little better.

Steven Julian: You might need an energy drink. Noah over here needs energy drinks. He uses Monster. What do you have over there? Pumpkin spice?

Evil Noah: We don’t have energy drinks. Oh. Bizarro world.

Steven Julian: Interesting. So it is bizarre.

Evil Noah: Maybe that’s why it sucks.

Steven Julian: Is it bizarro or is it mirrorverse or is it?

Evil Noah: It depends on your cultural frame of reference.

Steven Julian: By the way, what did they call it in Doctor Strange? It. was the mirror universe.

Evil Noah: The multiverse.

Steven Julian: Well, no, not the multiverse, the mirror dimension.

Evil Noah: Yeah, but that’s different.

Steven Julian: But that was just opposite.

Evil Noah: That’s a totally different thing.

Steven Julian: Yeah, okay, okay, okay. I’m sorry. Goodness gracious.

Evil Noah: You know, in my world, Steven knows his cultural references perfectly.

Steven Julian: In your world, does Steven know the name of Nim? Is it legend or secret? Does he say it right all the time or does he? Do you tell him he’s really good with his cultural references?

Evil Noah: Listen, in our world, it’s called the secret legend of Nim.

Steven Julian: Okay. All right. And Steven and Jody pay to do your show, right? That’s in your world.

Evil Noah: Yeah. I mean, it’s a privilege to work with me. Exactly.

Steven Julian: Because of all the degrees and all the things.

Evil Noah: Because then they get to go tell people, hey, look, I produced this show. Pay me money. I get to work with Noah.

Steven Julian: Right. So do inventors in your world, do they work with mentors, guides? You know, what kind of mentorship happens over there?

Evil Noah: Well, you know, I tell people that your best mentor is the person that knows you best. So go talk to your mom, ask her what she thinks of your idea. And that works out well for me most of the time.

Steven Julian: What do most moms say in that scenario?

Evil Noah: Moms love it. It doesn’t matter how bad the idea is. Moms typically love it. Now, if mom’s not available or if mom’s a little more honest, I guess, they’ll say, go talk to your best friend or whoever loves you the most. That’s who you want to talk to and get their opinion of your idea and get them to guide you through it.

Steven Julian: When it comes to bringing a product to market. And how you work with people on that side.

Evil Noah: Oh, I don’t want them to talk to anyone other than me. Absolutely. I don’t give them any references.

Steven Julian: You said mothers.

Evil Noah: Well, I don’t want them to talk to anyone that knows how to make a product. I mean, you know, talk to your mom, sure. Unless she’s an engineer, then don’t talk to her. Just talk to me, me and me alone. I’m not going to give you anybody else to talk to.

Steven Julian: I have saved this question for almost the last. I don’t know if it’ll be. the last question I asked, but I have saved it for this point because I am. I can’t wait to hear your answer to this. Do you have any mottos or mantras that you live by as an evil product developer?

Evil Noah: A fool and his money or make a great client. There’s a sucker born every day. Those are about the same thing. Nobody cares about your feelings. That’s a good one. I use that a lot when people call me up at the end and say, I never got to the market. I used up all my money. I feel bad. Nobody cares about your feelings. Click.

Steven Julian: Yeah. That’s good.

Evil Noah: Has anyone ever—Don’t call me again or I’ll sue you. I like that one.

Steven Julian: That’s a good one, too. That’s usually what require—Yeah.

Evil Noah: Because I make them sign you out like this 30-page terms and conditions document. I don’t even know what’s in there, but nobody reads it.

Steven Julian: Are you a big fan of Denny Crane from Boston Legal? Do you have that show on your universe?

Evil Noah: I don’t know. I don’t watch that. Okay. Not familiar.

Steven Julian: After you hang up on them, has anyone ever come? back and been really upset that you—Didn’t help them get their product to market?

Evil Noah: No, I blocked their number.

Steven Julian: Oh, okay. All right. So you mentioned the differences, a little bit of the differences in our world when you came over here. What other differences have you noticed now that you’re on this side?

Evil Noah: Well, to be honest, it’s about the same. You know, there’s a lot of people here with ideas and they don’t seem to know what to do with them. And it seems like there’s other people like me out here that are… No. I think I would feel at home here.

Steven Julian: Yeah, so you’ve already found maybe a firm or two or a group, and I’m not going to ask you to give any names to protect the guilty, but you kind of go, oh, I could get in with that group and I’d fit in well.

Evil Noah: Yeah, you can do a search online. You can find plenty of that stuff.

Steven Julian: Interesting, interesting. Have you, you know, you might run for political office, you know, keep telling people what they want to hear.

Evil Noah: Well, I mean, in my world, Most of our politicians are celebrities, so I don’t know if I’d… Ever since Elvis was president back in the 80s, it’s kind of been that way.

Steven Julian: Oh, wow. How’d he do?

Evil Noah: He did fine.

Steven Julian: Did he get that next level of black belt on your side?

Evil Noah: Black belt?

Steven Julian: Yeah, he was a black belt in karate and… I don’t know.

Evil Noah: I don’t read much history. Oh, okay.

Steven Julian: Doesn’t do any good, so… I think it’s time, Jody, is it time to get Noah back? Can we get our Noah back? Do I need to throw the chant out of… Dark crystal, labyrinth, fraggle rock, or do I need to sing?

Evil Noah: Oh, I’m hoping Jody can put a special effect sound here. Absolutely. That’d be amazing. You’re the best around.

Steven Julian: That’s what’ll get Noah back. Nothing will ever keep you down.

Evil Noah: I put evil Noah persona aside. Fantastic.

Steven Julian: It is our Noah back. Noah McNeely of Product QuickStart is here.

Evil Noah: And I will once again start taking my pills so evil Noah can remain away. Exactly.

Steven Julian: Oh, actually, I guess it would be more kind of Matrix, the latest Matrix movie where you got to take that, you know, you got to take the blue pill. to keep that other one.

Evil Noah: You know, I heard that movie was horrible, so I never watched it.

Steven Julian: It’s actually pretty good. Is it really? Yeah. It’s, I think, okay, quick sidetrack, right? I’ve earned that.

Evil Noah: People know we’re not tolerated this, but I’m all ears.

Steven Julian: Yeah. I would say, Jody, have you seen the last one? Okay. I’ll say this. When you watch the first Matrix, it’s so earth-shattering. It’s so amazing. It’s so great. There’s so many levels in the philosophical and all that.

Evil Noah: And then the second one sucked.

Steven Julian: If you watched the second and third one, it was so much more about the fighting and all that, and it really wasn’t that good of a story. So it kind of went downhill. I would say the last one went back to a little bit of… Wow. Okay. That’s different. That’s unique. That’s an interesting take on the story.

Evil Noah: Matrix Revolutions? Yeah.

Steven Julian: No, the last one was Resurrections, I believe. Okay. And so it’s this nice little, they went back to, ooh, didn’t see that coming? That’s kind of interesting. It does get a little ridiculous, especially kind of, but they also are like, let’s, how can? we add something new? And so they had a little bit new and the fights are okay, but it does get to where it’s like, okay, come on, this is a little silly. But all in all, definitely better than the second and third. Definitely better than the second and third, in my opinion. If nothing else for the, ooh, that’s an interesting twist on the story. So that’s what I would say.

Evil Noah: I’ll find time to check it out.

Steven Julian: And our loyal fans can now email and they can go on the product quick start contact page and go, tell Steven he’s an idiot. This is terrible. Here’s why.

Evil Noah: Just for reference, we do not have a loyal fans account or any other type of fans account. Correct.

Steven Julian: There is a paywall behind it anyway.

Evil Noah: He was using that as two separate words, loyal space fans.

Steven Julian: Loyal space fans. Loyal space fans. So this, of course, came from your famous, send an email. I will not say where it came from or what, because one of our last shows we were talking about, it was the CBD and mushroom. So this was apparently the bourbon show.

Evil Noah: Hey, I’ve never. done CBD or mushrooms, but there may have been a little bit of whiskey involved in this particular case.

Steven Julian: So it was fantastic. I thought you did great. I thought it was good.

Evil Noah: Obviously, even though it was a caricature of extremes, gut. A lot of that does come from actual stories I’ve heard. You know, I inherit projects here. And, you know, sometimes I inherit it from companies that you do hear advertised that are really just out to take as much money from inventors as they can. And at the end of the day, they deliver what their contract says, but it’s not what an inventor needs. The inventor has basically nothing when they’re done with that except a smaller bank account. Other times, you know, I’ve… Had people come here from other seemingly legit engineering firms. And like I’m talking to a guy now that started with this engineering firm, engineering design, product development firm about a year and a half ago. And he’s like, I’m $15,000 in. I just still don’t have anything from these guys. And I went, you know, I kind of walked him through. the reasons for that is that, you know, he. showed me who they were and everything. I was like, here’s why you don’t have anything. I suspect. A, you’re a very small client for them. So you were on the very back burner. They probably got a very big contract with some big company, you know, like, you know, lots of big companies. Everybody knows who they are. And they didn’t have time to work on your stuff.

Steven Julian: But they can still bill you.

Evil Noah: They can still bill you. And yeah, you’ve paid them $15,000, which seems like, which I’m sure is a lot of money for you. For them, that’s a very small project. That’s why you have no priority with them. And yeah, I see that kind of stuff all the time.

Steven Julian: Well, I think as people go through life on this universe or any universe, they recognize that when it comes to business, surround yourself with people who are doing business with you or for you. Are they simply trying to get paid? Or are they simply trying to, or are they actually trying to deliver something that they said they were going to deliver? Like just, just be caveat emptor, right? I mean, buyer beware, be aware of what you’re signing up for.

Evil Noah: So we’ve gone from French to Latin.

Steven Julian: Oh man, I’m throwing, it’s sick. It’s thick. Wait till I do my German phrase at the end.

Evil Noah: You got any Romanian in there?

Steven Julian: I do not. Okay. I do not. I can do Klingon.

Evil Noah: Qapla’. There you go. All right. Everyone, please forget that happened.

Steven Julian: Why? That’s great. Okay.

Evil Noah: Well, it’s fair. I am married already. I don’t need to find a girlfriend. Now, if you go around talking Klingon in college, your odds are not great.

Steven Julian: You definitely do not get a girlfriend.

Evil Noah: No, no. You wouldn’t. Yeah. My wife would not have been impressed.

Steven Julian: She still isn’t. Oh, sorry. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. That was me. I was. I deserved it after having to interview people. That’s evil Steven. That’s right. That’s evil Steven.

Evil Noah: So anyway, what you were just talking about before all these tangents, the way I look at that is ask yourself, is this person or this company, are they making money with me or are they making money off of me? And everybody’s got to make money. So it’s not bad that they, you know, I’ve. got to be paid. Everybody’s got to be paid for what they do. It really comes down to really some of the questions about philosophy that Steven asked earlier,

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: