Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Hey there, loyal listener of Product Genius. Are you working on your spaceship that you’re building to try to get to Alpha Centauri inside of 500 years? Well, stop what you’re doing and listen to this episode because we talk about fantastic things you need to hear like the wait calculation and weighting versus acting or leading edge versus bleeding edge or commoditization or post-technology. We also talk about other keywords like maybe Sidney Sweeney, Frank’s Cheese Hammers, and other things that really aren’t on this episode.

Noah McNeely: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down to earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started.

Noah McNeely: Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line.

Steven Julian: Yes. Welcome to another fantastic edition of Product Genius. I am your slightly annoying co-host. Why am I slightly annoying? Because I drew out the yes. Not. way longer, just long enough that Noah got concerned. I am seated next to the intrepid producer, Jody Smith, and Noah is dying to critique my long intro.

Noah McNeely: I was just going to say slightly might be a slight understatement. That particular long yes.

Steven Julian: I was feeling it, brother. I was feeling it.

Noah McNeely: You were. I was feeling the reverberations over here. It also occurred to me while listening to the intro, we might need to think about re-recording that because I am trying to figure out. Where I fit in late middle age or I don’t know what I am. Twenty-five. Twenty-five. Now it’s more than 25 years. So when we started that, it was more than 20. Yeah.

Steven Julian: That’s right. We started this coming out of COVID. It’s been like four years. Yeah. Holy cow. It’s your silver anniversary of being a product developer.

Noah McNeely: That’s offensive. Kind of. I don’t know. It just makes me feel old. Too many things make me feel old.

Steven Julian: Listen, as an independent financial advisor, and that’s all I can say, silver is a great investment, but past performance is no guarantee of future results. Please consult your perspective.

Noah McNeely: Not a particularly exciting. investment.

Steven Julian: No, no. Actually, for 15 years, silver, man, everybody says silver is going to take off. I’m like, yes, I’m still waiting.

Noah McNeely: I can dye it and get rid of the silver. Oh, wait, we’re not talking about hair.

Steven Julian: No, that’s a sliver. This is the mushroom-inspired episode of Product Genius. This is the CBD gummy-inspired episode of Product Genius because the title of this is, Have You Ever Built a Spaceship? Noah, long-time listeners, we have a lot of fun, and Noah sends out these great… Pre-show emails. Hey, here are the topics I want to do when we record. And this one was, have you ever built a spaceship? Which I’ll say it up front. I immediately thought, have you ever built a spaceship? So I, you know, I went to Frozen, even though I’ve never seen the movie, but I’ve never seen, I don’t have daughters.

Noah McNeely: I have three sons. Oh yeah. It makes sense. Yes. I’ve seen it like 80 times because I have daughters.

Steven Julian: Have you ever seen Meet the Robinsons?

Noah McNeely: Oh yeah.

Steven Julian: Oh, okay. That’s a very underrated movie.

Noah McNeely: Especially with the Tyrannosaurus with the tiny arms.

Steven Julian: Yeah, exactly. My arms are too, yeah. But we quote that movie all the time. That’s a, okay, so I was trying to think of a, okay, so have you ever seen any of the Transformers movies?

Noah McNeely: The first one, yeah.

Steven Julian: That’s a boy thing, right?

Noah McNeely: Maybe like bits and pieces of others.

Steven Julian: You’re not missing much.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I kind of got that. Yeah.

Steven Julian: I just know the song because a few years ago you heard, have you ever seen Built a Snowman? You know, you couldn’t avoid it.

Noah McNeely: They should have put that in the Transformers.

Steven Julian: Else it shows up and freezes. That would have been great.

Noah McNeely: Somewhere someone’s making an AI video of that right now.

Steven Julian: I like it. So, Noah, explain your questions.

Noah McNeely: Well, I was directing the question to you. So, Steven, have you ever built a spaceship to go to another planet?

Steven Julian: No, not to go to another planet. To play with my Legos, yes, absolutely.

Noah McNeely: So, what’s holding you back?

Steven Julian: I believe it’ll be the topic of this show. So, what’s holding me back? is I…

Noah McNeely: Well, you’re afraid someone’s going to build a better spaceship.

Steven Julian: That’s not why I wasn’t doing it. I would, because I’m like, I’m… I’m. mechanically, engineeringly impossible for me to build something to do that.

Noah McNeely: Okay.

Steven Julian: Yeah. And I don’t have the resources.

Noah McNeely: Not today. Stop it. Yeah. At all, no. Exactly.

Steven Julian: You have a different answer to, Noah, have you ever built a spaceship?

Noah McNeely: No.

Steven Julian: And why not?

Noah McNeely: Well, for the same reason, actually, because I would not know how to build a spaceship, even though I am an engineer. So the topic of today is the wait calculation. And I’m not talking about how heavy either of us are. I’m talking about weight as in W-A-I-T.

Steven Julian: Yeah. So the wait calculation is relevant to the topic of building a spaceship because there are people who would go, yes, I could build a spaceship. It’s better to wait. Talk about that.

Noah McNeely: So let’s think about it. Let’s do a little story. So let’s say you were—Does it involve Frank? It could. He could be one of the colonists on the ship, I guess. So let’s say that for whatever reason, you’re part of a group. We’re going to go settle a planet in another star system, Alpha Centauri, and whatever. So we do all these calculations. Well, let’s go to Alpha Centauri.

Steven Julian: This is a topic of conversation. we have to get off the planet and yada yada. There are people talking about it.

Noah McNeely: Possibly. So anyway, Alpha Centauri takes, what, four years for light to get there. It’s a long way away. So you do all that, you know, you work with your engineers and whatnot, and you guys develop this spaceship, and you push the science as far as you can. It’s going to take you a thousand years to get there. So either you find some way to

Steven Julian: freeze

Noah McNeely: everybody and thaw them out when you get there, or either that or like 20 generations of people are going to live and die and grow up on this spaceship before it gets to

Steven Julian: Space Mutiny, one of the greatest MST3K episodes of all time.

Noah McNeely: Okay. I’ve not seen that one. Oh, you got to look at it.

Steven Julian: Okay. Sorry. That’s a, that’s a, let’s stay on topic.

Noah McNeely: So anyway, you build this spaceship, you and your group and all your colonists and you build it and you launch and a thousand years later, you arrive on Alpha Centauri. But guess what? There’s already people there.

Steven Julian: How is that possible, Noah?

Noah McNeely: Because a hundred years after you left, somebody came along and developed a better form of propulsion that got them there in 500 years. So by the time you get there, they’ve already been there for hundreds of years. And then, but guess what else? When they got there, there were already people there. How is that possible, Noah? Because 100 years after they left, someone came up with a way to get there in 200 years. But when they got there, there were already people there.

Steven Julian: How is that possible? No, I’m getting tired of saying that.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, yeah. Stop saying that.

Steven Julian: So on and on and on and on and on.

Noah McNeely: At some point, they got the technology. They maxed it out to where they could get there in five years.

Steven Julian: Right.

Noah McNeely: That’s almost the speed of light. I don’t know if it’s possible or not.

Steven Julian: The concept of this is the famous Apollo 11 movie, Apollo 11. that happened in the Apollo 11 movie, Tom Hanks, there’s a great line where he goes, he’s showing people around the spaceship and it’s for congressional funding. And he goes, imagine a world in which the computers fit inside. of one room, computing power fitting inside of one room. So the idea of… Everything gets faster. Everything gets better. Everything is done quicker. That’s Apollo 13. But, okay, sorry. The movie Apollo 13. I thought you were saying four. Apollo 13. You’re right. It was Apollo 13. I apologize. Apollo 11 was the first one that landed on the moon and that some people think we didn’t do. Anyway, the point being that technology always gets better and faster and we get better and faster at doing things. A hundred years ago, 150 years ago, they plowed, you know, an acre, a farm, you know, how many acres could you get in a day? Now they’re doing giant swaths of land and now we’re planting upward, vertical. So the idea is the wait calculation, things will always get more efficient or vaster or better. Is that kind of what you’re talking about here?

Noah McNeely: Well, to a point. So like in our example, assuming no one… That violates the laws of physics as we understand them. Eventually do reach a point of diminishing returns where the technology is not going to get any better. You’re not going to get there. any faster than five years. You’re going to eventually reach that point where it is what it is. The technology, it’s ubiquitous. Everybody knows. I mean, by that time, if you’ve got a way to get there in five years, probably every country has a shuttle that goes to Alpha Centauri. You know, Sri Lanka. It has a shuttle that goes to Alpha Centauri by that point. And the only difference between the Sri Lanka shuttle and the Germany shuttle and the Australia shuttle is just style and the type of food they serve and the music they play. Technologically, they’re all the same. Just like, you know, you can fly on a jet airplane. All different carriers, all different countries have their carriers. Not a lot of difference, really. Some are a little cheaper. Some have nicer people. Some have nicer food. But they’re all basically the same.

Steven Julian: So to wrap up your story, the first people that left and it took them a thousand years to get there, you’re saying not only will they see the people from 500 and 250 and 100, they’ll also see the people who took an Uber. Shuttle there and are just staying. for the weekend and going back.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, imagine you get there a thousand years later, you get there and all of a sudden it’s like there’s a spaceship taking off every three days. You know, you’re like, what the heck?

Steven Julian: What the H? If I can quote Norm MacDonald from his sports show. So at this point of discussion of the wait calculation.

Noah McNeely: You would have been better off to freeze everybody and wait 500 years and then send them in five years to get there. Okay, we’ve taken that far enough. Okay.

Steven Julian: So, actually, in terms of your wait calculation, the original Planet of the Apes movie, they should have never sent the astronauts. And when those astronauts landed, they should have found all the other people that were sent after them. That would have made for a much different movie.

Noah McNeely: There are a lot of inconsistencies in the Planet of the Apes franchise that we don’t need to go into right now.

Steven Julian: Get your hands off me. Anyway.

Noah McNeely: Right now, science nerds listening are saying, tell me more.

Steven Julian: About Planet of the Apes, gladly.

Noah McNeely: About that.

Steven Julian: About the wait calculation.

Noah McNeely: Everyone else is saying, how on Earth or. off Earth. does this relate to product development and inventions?

Steven Julian: Okay, tell us.

Noah McNeely: Okay, so imagine the wait calculation.

Steven Julian: Imagine if you will.

Noah McNeely: But, yes, join us as we go on a journey.

Steven Julian: I’ve got you going in so many different directions now.

Noah McNeely: You do.

Steven Julian: We’re having fun.

Noah McNeely: We were kidding about the mushrooms.

Steven Julian: It might sound a little like it.

Noah McNeely: Even though that was a joke, there were no mushrooms involved today.

Steven Julian: I just had the same thought. I think people are listening going, they may have had a CBD gummy. We really haven’t. All we’ve had is coffee. So, all right. Tell me more.

Noah McNeely: As soon as those things are legal in Georgia, you know, who knows?

Steven Julian: Oh, yeah, absolutely. But they’re not, and we’re not. Yes. So an inventor entrepreneur has got an idea for a product.

Noah McNeely: But with a similar dilemma. It’s like, when do I start developing my product? When do I launch my product? It’s the whole thing, waiting versus acting, waiting versus doing. Is the time right? And as is often my answer.

Steven Julian: We need to have a sounder for this, Jody, at some point. It depends.

Noah McNeely: In this case, it depends on. what type of inventor or entrepreneur you are and what type of invention you’ve come up with. So those of you who can imagine my left hand on the left side of the spectrum, you’ve got our thousand-year spaceship people. This is what you might call… The leading edge technologies, the bleeding edge, leading edge, and you don’t really know which one you’re on until you start bleeding, but it’s, let’s replace the time, the thousand years with money, money, effort, et cetera. So if you’re on that side of the spectrum, it’s going to take you a lot of money to get some sort of really new technology that maybe will never work. And even if it does work, it’s going to take you a long time and a lot of money. To get that developed to where you have a product. On the way other side of the spectrum, your five-year spaceship people, this technology is well proven. You know, you’re not necessarily developing any new technology. You might be putting something stylistically on it. Maybe you’re adding a little feature. But fundamentally, the technology is what it is. And you’re not changing that. That’s a product you’ll. get to the market cheaper, quicker, very cheap, very quick.

Steven Julian: What’s the name of that? What’s the name of the five-year that you would say? What would you call that? So if leading edge, bleeding edge is the maximum dollar, is this like…

Noah McNeely: Well, I don’t have a good name. In my notes, I was calling it the post-technology.

Steven Julian: Post-technology, yeah. Because the technology already exists.

Noah McNeely: Or the commodity product space, maybe. I don’t like to think of it quite like that. So an example is like… Insulated or vacuum coffee cups, insulated coffee cups. When they first came out, they were like, hey, this is cool. Not every factory knew how to make them. And you could charge a lot for them. It took a good bit of time to develop that first one. After that. People started learning how to do it. And now, you know, they’re ubiquitous. Everybody, well, not everybody, but lots of companies make these things. And, you know, one will have a better handle for you. One will have this, that, or the other. Maybe your invention is just a more ergonomic handle for that. Or maybe it’s got a magnet on it. so you can stick it somewhere. Or, you know, maybe it’s got a better straw. Who knows what it is? Some little thing you’ve added to it so you get your invention on the market. But those are much cheaper products to get on the market because you’re not developing a new tech.

Steven Julian: You’ve done a great job of kind of circling this topic and having us start it. because I’m going to give you something. We didn’t talk about this pre-show, but the commoditization or the post-technology. I like the idea of post-technology. Something may be post-technology. A good example, and I think the Insulated Cup is a great example. If people are offering to put your business logo and name on it, that’s a post-technology because that means it’s so ubiquitous that we’re like, hey, slap your name on it.

Noah McNeely: Either that or they’re desperately trying to raise funds and they need a sponsor.

Steven Julian: But to that point, let’s talk about the Insulated Cup because when you and I are of a certain age. Thermos was about it. And the kid who had a thermos in his lunchbox, that’s middle class. Wow.

Noah McNeely: And the real high class was the. old school Stanley. You remember those things that you put your soup in? You like your grandfather had this thing and he would put like a gallon of coffee in this and just drink off. He would take it hunting. He drank on it all weekend or whatever.

Steven Julian: So that’s where Stanley originally came from before they be. And they kind of went back down the thing.

Noah McNeely: They got these frou-frou Stanley cups now, which, you know, your grandfather wouldn’t.

Steven Julian: And Stanley Cups with company names on them. Hey, why don’t you get your clients a cup with your logo on it?

Noah McNeely: Go to Vistaprint and order a cup with your name on it.

Steven Julian: Exactly right. And I was thinking on the leading edge, bleeding edge, my first thought of an example is cell phone technology. You know, cell phone technology took a decade to develop and it started.

Noah McNeely: And it had a lot of failures.

Steven Julian: It had a ton of failures.

Noah McNeely: A lot of very expensive failures.

Steven Julian: The first. cell call made in, you know, the early 1980s. It took 15 years before it started to become more used. And there’s an actually, there’s a great comedy bit by. Andy Kindler about, you know, can you believe, or Seinfeld had an episode about, they took a sell call in front of me. How rude. And it’s like, okay, now that’s just, that’s standard social procedure. Anyway.

Noah McNeely: Using what my wife calls the Zach Morris cell phone. If you remember from Saved by the Bell, there was an episode where he had this giant cell phone. The big brick. Yeah, it’s the size of a laptop that we have today. It’s crazy.

Steven Julian: I was thinking of Seinfeld, the cell phone. walk and talk. You’re calling me back on a cell phone.

Noah McNeely: There used to be cell phones built into your car. Remember that?

Steven Julian: Yeah, they were car phones. And there were cell phones that had bags. You had to carry the bag with the cell phone.

Noah McNeely: So anyway, those are some of our 1,000-year spaceships and 500-year spaceships there. But now we’ve got, you know, lots of companies make cell phones. It’s still not what an inventor would make because they’re still extensive.

Steven Julian: So let’s go back to the inventor.

Noah McNeely: Okay. The inventor is—Stop talking about stupid stuff, Noah.

Steven Julian: No, no, no, no. I’m enjoying—this is going to have. so many cultural references in it. This is one of my favorite shows. I love it when we get to do that. I get to shine on all my useless, trivial knowledge.

Noah McNeely: I wasn’t quoting you. I was quoting what’s going through Jody’s mind. Exactly.

Steven Julian: And our listeners who are like, tell me more, tell me more, tell me more. Because it’s not just the science nerds doing that. It’s the people who go, okay, so I’m an inventor. Are you telling me to stop? My idea, if it’s going to take too much blood and too much sacrifice and too much money, it depends.

Noah McNeely: I’m not telling you that at all. Okay. What I am saying is most inventor entrepreneurs are going to fall somewhere between these two extremes. If you’re on that left side where it is a new tech, you’re not going to have enough money to do it. You’re going to have to go out and your entire strategy is going to be different than someone on the far right side of that. store-bought in vehicles and you’ve got this great idea, but there’s a million things that aren’t known right there. You’re not going. to be able to fund all that. You’re going to have to go out and get venture capital. You’re going to maybe government grants, all sorts. You’re going to need millions and millions of dollars to get that all the way to the point of a product in the marketplace. because you’ve got, you know, how do I compress the hydrogen? How do I store it safely? How do I make sure that I’m not blowing up a bridge when I drive a truck under it? All that sort of stuff has got to be figured out. Long before you have a product on the market. So you’re talking about years, millions and millions of dollars, bleeding edge, leading edge. And the difference there, bleeding edge, I’m saying that stuff, you may simply spend millions of dollars on a bleeding edge technology that never develops. Whereas leading edge, you need to actually get it across the finish line. But most inventing entrepreneurs are going to be somewhere in the middle. So if you’re on that left side, you’ve got to have a total, or closer to that left side, you’ve got to have a totally different strategy about, Your focus. has got to be more about raising funds, taking your invention far enough along that you can go out and you can present it well. You’re probably going to have to have a team behind you presenting this. You may need a spokesperson. You may need a lot of stuff to get all the money on board to make that happen. And a long horizon kind of viewpoint there. If you’re on the right side of this or closer to the right side, then you might be able to do it all on your own. You may not need. Other people’s money, it might be a small enough, a cheap enough thing that you can get that on the market in six months. If you put a few thousand dollars toward it, 10,000, whatever it is, kind of depends on what the product is. Very different strategy. There your strategy is like, I’m going to come up with a name for this thing. How am I going to market it? How am I going to sell it? Those are things you figure out early. Whereas if you’ve got a revolutionary technology to store hydrogen, people are going to figure that. out for you. And that’s going to be way down the list versus not blowing up that bridge I was talking about. Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. But the taste is just the beginning.

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Noah McNeely: We’ve had people on the show. So I’ll give an example, some examples. So a gentleman we had on a few months, a few episodes ago, very successful business. He’s closer to that post-technology side. It’s the caulking finger. People remember that. There’s not really new technology there. It’s a new idea on using technology, and it’s a cool product, and I think he does well with it. But at the end of the day, it’s an elastomeric material on the end of a plastic. You know, there’s nothing bleeding edge about that, but he found a clever way to use those technologies, those long-established technologies, to solve a problem that was in the marketplace.

Steven Julian: Well, the right side was. the finger. And so he said, Let me give you the finger. And so, you know, Daniel Stevenson of the Caulking Finger, caulkingfinger.com. And what he did was he took what was existing, which was everybody’s finger, and he said, use mine. It won’t hurt as much. And it’ll, you know, and it works.

Noah McNeely: So a lot of what he has is a stylistic difference, kind of like the difference in the airlines. But there is a little bit of… Uniqueness to it in the sense that he is solving a problem. You know, who wants to get caulk on their fingers?

Steven Julian: And I was going to say that. I didn’t want to jump over that. I think a lot of our listeners who’ve listened a long time were thinking right along with you. And this is more for the people who are just kind of finding this show. You have said multiple times that the people you work with that kind of find success, it starts with you’re trying to solve a problem. Yes. Have you ever built a spaceship? Somebody’s building a spaceship because they’re probably trying to solve a problem, not just because, hey, I’d like to. do it. So even the people now who are doing space, you know, space is kind of back in the news. You’re trying to solve a problem or you’re trying to achieve something. So I didn’t want to gloss over that. I know that is the main thrust of what you do with everybody you do it with. But if you’re not trying to solve a problem, you’re not going to waste, you’re not going to use a ton of money just to. Do something. So that’s, I want to make sure and just acknowledge that.

Noah McNeely: Right. I think we did a whole episode on that, the difference between art and design. You know, if you’re designing something, you’re solving a problem. If you’re just doing it because, hey, this is cool. Well, that’s an art project, which is fine. Got nothing wrong with art projects, but that doesn’t make. That doesn’t make them good business choices.

Steven Julian: Got it. Okay. So that, so you talked about Daniel, given, I assume you’ve got, we’ve got some examples from this show of the other side of that.

Noah McNeely: I do. So, well, sort of more in the middle I was going to give, because I tend to work in that sort of maybe a little bit left to middle all the way to the right on this spectrum. I stay away. I’ll come to it, but I stay away from the left side these days. So Steve Waddell is a gentleman we’ve had actually on a couple of times. He was on when Tiffany was running the show. And oddly enough, Tiffany and I both met Steve through different pathways. I’d worked with Steve to help helping him develop his first product. And then he and Tiffany got connected on LinkedIn and she asked him, hey, how’d you do this? And he’s like, well, I met this guy named Noah. And then she’s like, I know Noah. And then, you know, anyway, that’s a long story. So Steve’s product, the Nassoni faucet, it’s sort of in the middle because what it does, it’s a faucet that you can flip a switch and it becomes a fountain for brushing your teeth, filling up a glass of water, all that sort of, or drinking out of without using a glass of water. And you might say, well, faucets exist. Isn’t that further to the right? I wouldn’t say so because in the middle, because yes, faucets exist, but the mechanisms to flip it to actually be a water fountain, that had to be developed kind of from the ground up. That was not existing. So that’s why I’m putting it in the middle. It’s not… store-bought level difficulty, but it’s also much more complex than the caulking finger.

Steven Julian: It’s more than just adding a magnet to a thermal mug. And there’s nothing else on the market like it that turns a faucet that water comes out of, goes down, and flip it to have it be a fountain that comes out. That’s… Barely out there, if out there at all. And so go check out nasoni.com, N-A-S-O-N-I. Both of these examples, neither of them paid sponsorship dollars for you to shout them out.

Noah McNeely: No, but we should start hitting people up for that, maybe. Absolutely.

Steven Julian: You can email me at…

Noah McNeely: If you’d like to sponsor a product genius, please reach out to Noah or Steven.

Steven Julian: Either that or give us the…

Noah McNeely: We accept Dr. Pepper as sponsorship.

Steven Julian: And royalty rights to The Secret of NIMH. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry.

Noah McNeely: So I tend to stay away from. the bleeding edge, leading edge these days, just out of choice because those tend to be very long projects and I tend to get bored with them.

Steven Julian: The bigger companies tackle that stuff because they’ve got the resources.

Noah McNeely: They’ve got the resources. It’s not typically the–I do get involved occasionally, like I am working on some now, but really more as an advisor. I’m not doing the technology development. I’m doing the productization. Earlier in my career, I did work on some of those. And an example of a bleeding edge that never really, millions of dollars were spent on, never really launched was this wound treatment chemistry that there was one I was involved in that did launch, totally different. It’s not that one if you look up my history. But there was a wound treatment chemistry really meant for battlefield medicine and other places where you could slap this stuff on a wound and it would help.

Steven Julian: You conclusively said no to that one. We did. Okay.

Noah McNeely: Good. But anyway, there was so much to figure out. Millions of dollars were spent by a very large company. Figuring this out, they eventually just let it sort. of fade away because they couldn’t. The reward versus risk or reward versus expenditure ratio just reached a point that they were no longer comfortable. And they were such a big company that it really didn’t matter that much the money they’d spent. It did, but it didn’t. Anyway, bleeding edge never made it.

Steven Julian: That’s funny, bleeding edge. And I would imagine in that time, other decisions were made, other companies tackled it, found maybe not everything they wanted to do, but something that kind of works. It’s rather interesting.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, other solutions came along that maybe attacked part of the problem in ways that were more established and easier for. Military to absorb.

Steven Julian: A triage wound treatments thing that could then be scrubbed off when you’re ready to tackle it. I don’t know, rather interesting. People are having flashbacks to movies where they see people, you know, I’m thinking of Mark Wahlberg in Shooter. Why is Shooter the movie that comes on TV? Like every day. There was a period of time you’d flip through the channels. I could always find Shooter on. My wife and I have a joke that in the 90s, it was Clash of the. Titans. TBS showed Clash of the Titans and Beastmaster. They showed it every day. one of those two movies was on.

Noah McNeely: I remember Beastmaster. That was probably a lot cooler when I was a kid than if I watched it now.

Steven Julian: It was never cool to me.

Noah McNeely: Well, I was eight years old.

Steven Julian: Okay, eight years ago. That’s awesome. Eight, nine. I’m with you there.

Noah McNeely: And Mark Singer was the guy that kind of seemed like Mark Hamill, but wasn’t Mark Hamill, right?

Steven Julian: That’s a great one. Well done. But, you know, and I just bring up Shooter because of the… He pulls out the first aid kit and you shake things in the wound and it kind of settles or whatever.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, kind of like that, but different.

Steven Julian: Yeah, and the technology, I would assume, has gotten better. And yeah, so that’s rather interesting. You work more on the right side of that spectrum and center of that spectrum because that’s where the inventor entrepreneur who doesn’t have a ton of venture capital or some, but you don’t have unlimited resources.

Noah McNeely: Right. So those are much more… Attainable goals for a typical either small startup or inventor entrepreneur. Now, again, if you’ve got millions of dollars of VC money behind you, that’s a different story. That’s a different type of project. That’s generally going to be a much longer term project.

Steven Julian: And we didn’t talk about this pre-show, but I know if people go back and listen to episodes, and maybe this goes back to when Tiffany was hosting and you were one of the geniuses around the table. I distinctly have memories and more than once of you kind of go in. There are certain projects where I want to make, you know, this that’s going to be this going to change the world. And you’re like, well, if you really want to solve the problem, you could use this that already exists as a base. And then if we just did this, this and this, then you’ll make it so that and I guess you’ve used the phrase of, you know, not having not. Fixing a $5 problem with a $200 solution. No one’s going to pay $200 for a flashlight just because it has a level on it, you know? So shout out to iLevel. All these people need to, no, I

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: