Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: So have you ever been in your car, sitting in traffic, listening to your favorite podcast, Product Genius, and you thought to yourself, you know, I wish my car could be made out of fabric. And then I’d have denim rivets in my engine. Of course, you know, you can’t do that. But plenty of other products are made of fabric. And we’re going to talk to Mark Thibadeau from Black Thread Creative about all things soft goods. next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur?

Noah McNeely: Struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place.

Mark Thibadeau: Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide.

Steven Julian: With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started.

Noah McNeely: Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Steven Julian: Hey, that’s my line. Yes, it is another fantastic, stupendous, above board, highly above average episode of Product Genius. I am your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian, seated to my left this time. Not deep inside the layer, deep inside the administrative offices of Product Quick Start. Seated to my left is the intrepid producer, Jody Smith. And seated across the table is the man who puts all of this together, the man who is the genius who drives the other geniuses, of which I am not one, to the table. It’s Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Hello, and welcome to the fabulous administrative offices of Product Quick Start.

Steven Julian: I’m so excited. The very first episodes were done in these administrative offices, and there was a… Horrible reverb.

Noah McNeely: There was. And we moved back to the lab, but today the robots are having some AI hallucinations, so I thought it wasn’t really safe.

Steven Julian: Yeah, yeah. So it’s begun? Is that what you’re…

Noah McNeely: No, in reality, I just have so many projects spread out all over everywhere that we couldn’t set up the studio back there.

Steven Julian: Business is good because people are calling. Yes. And people are calling partially because of this show.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’m getting more and more people that… Call me up and say, hey, I heard your podcast. So that feels awesome. You guys are doing a great job, Jody and Steven.

Steven Julian: By the way, I want to let. the audience know that I will never refer back to the long-running joke of wanting to have Noah. let me do a show where we talked about goals because we did that. But I did inform Noah of my new master plan that I told him we need to have an audience participation show. We need to have a question. We need a frequently asked question, FAQ show or, you know, the audience poll show. They need to send in emails or, you know, they need to give us their idea. I’ve got an idea. Call me. Let’s put them on the show.

Noah McNeely: I like it.

Steven Julian: Yeah. We’ll have to screen out Frank.

Noah McNeely: We might slip in some random crazy questions. Absolutely.

Steven Julian: I already have the first question because I’ve already got one from Frank of Frank’s Cheesehammers, but that’s another story for another time. We’ve got a fantastic guest with us today. Mark Thibadeau is here from Black Thread Creative. And Noah, how did Mark get on this show? Because I don’t think he emailed you and said, I love your show and I want to be on.

Noah McNeely: No, no.

Steven Julian: You know him.

Noah McNeely: He didn’t email us and give. a 30-minute pitch about why he’s awesome.

Steven Julian: Wait, wait, that was my demo tape for doing the show. Wait.

Noah McNeely: No, no, I met you through Tiffany’s. Go ahead. No, Mark is someone that I realized was awesome kind of right away. And I met Mark through, basically Mark is someone I’ve been looking for for years in this business. You know, I think people that listen, they know I make all sorts of stuff, plastic and metal and wood and all your basic widgets and gadgets and things. One of the things I’ve always struggled with is soft goods. So things that are sewn, things that are made out of fabric. It’s always been difficult for me to find a good resource that’s an expert in that space. And so I put a thing out on LinkedIn and Mark responded. Turns out he’d moved back to Atlanta. So it was all very, it just, all the pieces fell into place and he came out. He’s made some prototypes for one of my clients and the clients love them.

Steven Julian: Love it.

Noah McNeely: Anyway, that’s why Mark is awesome. I’m going to, I’m rambling.

Steven Julian: And to quote, we both are, to quote Monty. Python, there’s a group of people off camera going, get on with it. So Mark Thibadeau is here from Black Thread Creative. Mark, welcome to the administrative offices instead of the lair of Product Quickstart and our wonderful little Product Genius podcast.

Mark Thibadeau: Thank you, Steven. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

Steven Julian: So if people haven’t searched already blackthreadcreative.com, I love the tagline, we’re bag makers. But go a little deeper. Talk a little bit more about soft goods and exactly what you guys do.

Mark Thibadeau: Sure. Yeah. So at the core of things, we design functional products out of textiles. My background is really kind of in the outdoor industry. Luggage and backpacks, worked on tents, worked on sleeping bags, lots of fun stuff like that, fun products to use, fun products to design. And that still kind of transfers to anything that functions. So kind of with my industrial design background, we bring up a process to the design that really focuses on trying to figure out user needs and figure out. What kind of problem we’re hoping to solve and then applying solutions to that and seeing what fits and what works well.

Steven Julian: Is most of your business working with? entrepreneurs and inventors who have an idea for who need something designed in terms of a soft good for their product and or if not? What are some of the other avenues? We won’t spend a ton of time on them because our target audience is the inventor entrepreneur. But give me an idea of is all of your business that? Is most of it? Is half of it? Kind of give me a ballpark figure.

Mark Thibadeau: Less than half is sort of inventors and entrepreneurs. You know, most of my clients are established companies.

Steven Julian: Okay. I was going to say, so before we, I do want to focus on the inventor entrepreneur because that’s our target audience.

Noah McNeely: Like Liam Neeson in Taken, Mark has a particular set of skills which apply to clients of all sizes. And it is a very, again, to me, it’s always been a very hard set of skills to find. So I think Mark has appealed to all sorts of clients.

Steven Julian: But so let’s talk real quickly about the larger companies that you work for. I would imagine some of them do a lot of bags, do a lot of, and they’re like, hey, we’re. coming to you to help you with this particular new line that we’re coming out. Is that fair?

Noah McNeely: And you don’t, if you can’t say the specific, if you can’t say the specific companies that that’s.

Steven Julian: I’m not asking him for this.

Noah McNeely: I’ll leave the companies out of this. Okay. Yeah.

Steven Julian: So, so, so that’s it. Yeah.

Mark Thibadeau: A couple of different, a couple of different things here. So, you know, in some cases it’s companies with existing. Soft goods, product lines, they already have in-house design, but they need more horsepower. They want to scale up or they have more projects than they can handle for, you know, this season, for example. Or it’s a company that makes something else. They might make, say, hunting gear or fishing gear. And it’s all injection molded and metals, plastics, composites. And they want to make cases or they want to make bags or they want to make, say, luggage that has their brand on it. So I can help them kind of fit into their product language with uniquely functional product that, yeah, that then they can market and sell. Yep.

Steven Julian: Noah, I want to ask you because you started this show. by saying this area is not rife with… A plethora of choices.

Noah McNeely: Well, it’s, I’ve never been able to find. It doesn’t, I think.

Steven Julian: Now, is that because you’re so picky?

Noah McNeely: Well, I don’t know why, why exactly. But, you know, I’ve always, I kind of grew up starting with, you know, plastics design and stuff like that. So, this was always sort of one of those things right over the horizon of what I knew about and knew a little bit about. I knew, hey, there’s industrial designers that do this. And, but I almost always ended up never being able to find them. So I go to like a local seamstress, which nothing wrong with local seamstresses, but they don’t, they can sew something if I go and tell them, but they’re just somebody in a room with a sewing machine. Whereas Mark’s a totally different level. And Mark, I think you’re not just a guy with a sewing machine. In fact, you use some terminology the last time we met that I had never heard before. That was CNC sewing or CNC fabric or.

Steven Julian: CNC Music Factory, I know that.

Noah McNeely: Well, that’s totally different.

Steven Julian: So talk a. little bit about this terminology, Mark, that got Noah all Twitter.

Mark Thibadeau: Yeah, this is really, really fun stuff. It’s programmable sewing machines. And, you know, they come in different sizes, different size clamps. And it would clamp, you know, a piece of fabric with, say, a piece of… Webbing or other trim that you might put on top and it will sew it in place in a very clean, repeatable way. And so you might, you know, if you want to, I think this project. we were doing 48 of the same operation, which is a little mind numbing, you know, from a prototyping standpoint. But once you get into the production stage, you can do it very quickly with a CNC sewing machine.

Noah McNeely: Cool. That sounded a little backhanded about the prototype I had you build there. I apologize. It was probably—We’ll have to take that one offline. No, I did design this ridiculous thing that required Mark to basically redo the same thing, like you said, 48 times. So I apologize for that, Mark. But thank you for doing a great job on it.

Steven Julian: But he did finish by saying—I figured it was a test. Yeah, and he did finish by saying once we go into production, that’ll be a—you know, he can do it.

Noah McNeely: No, it’s more along the lines of you’re an expert in soft goods and I’m not. So I probably designed it totally the wrong way.

Steven Julian: So actually, you’re getting, Noah, you’re getting a little bit, there’s a little karma there because of all the people, all the stories that we’ve told going back to when Tiffany was hosting the show of people who are like, well, just have it do this 875 things that all. in the next second, you’re like, yeah, okay.

Noah McNeely: My turn to be the band client.

Steven Julian: I can, yeah. Demanding, demanding. That’s the word we use. So we’re talking with Mark Thibadeau. He is here with Black Thread Creative. They handle all things soft goods. Mark, talk a little bit about prototypes. Talk a little bit about working with entrepreneurs. And I guess the first question I would ask Noah, and this was not the first thing he ever said, but in what he does with inventors, entrepreneurs, a lot of times it’s… Hey, don’t just tell me I’ve got an idea. So when someone meets with you, what would you like that? And let’s talk specifically about an inventor entrepreneur who’s looking for some kind of soft, good help with a prototype. What can they bring to? what can they bring you that you would be like, great, now you’re getting the best bang for your buck. I can I can work with you if you don’t if you know, as long as you don’t bring me something written in crayon. I mean, talk a little bit about what people can bring to the table. that would help the process.

Mark Thibadeau: Sure. Yeah, I mean, you know, I can work from a napkin sketch, that sort of classic industrial design terminology, you know, a very rough idea. The critical thing for me to know, you know, if an entrepreneur comes to me is what problem are you trying to solve and why do you want to do this? That helps frame up, you know, a lot of the 400 design decisions that I might have to make. While I’m sitting at the sewing machine, if I know why they’re doing it, if I know what they’re trying to accomplish, I have a really, really a much better. kind of basis for making those decisions. And that would be the first and biggest, just, yeah, what and why.

Steven Julian: One of the interesting things I found from talking to so many different… One of the geniuses that get around the table and do specific things in bringing someone’s product to market is when they find themselves as part of the conversation. When you’re working with entrepreneurs and inventors, do you find that a lot of times you’re the first person that they’re talking to in the process of bringing their product to market? Or is it… About half and half, and the other half of the time, it’s someone like Noah who is working for someone to bring their product to market, and he says, I need to find someone in industrial design and soft goods to make this prototype that this person wants.

Mark Thibadeau: Yeah, I mean, typically, and sort of in line with what Noah was saying, there’s not a lot of us out there. So typically, I am maybe the one person they’re talking to. And even in some cases, I’ve sought them out and said, hey, you should really try fabric. Also, I have this company. But it’s, yeah, typically I’m kind of the one person that they’re talking to and they’re not super informed on what’s possible, but they have some sort of some idea and they’re kind of looking for the next steps and a little bit of guidance there.

Noah McNeely: So I think Steven was going to ask the question and I raised my hand at the same time. So he’s deferring to me. So we’ll come back to Steven’s question. But I actually have a couple of questions in any order. And we can, don’t, he’s rolling his eyes at me.

Steven Julian: I’m having so much fun right now, even though I was late to the studio, I apologize.

Noah McNeely: Okay. I’m going to lay both questions out and then we can discuss amongst yourselves. One, for inventors and entrepreneurs, you and I have talked about, I think there’s. Advantages to cut and sew a lot of times related to tooling and startup costs. I’d love for you to touch on that. The other question I had was in kind of relates to something you just said about, have you ever seen products where people have made them in plastics and stuff that should totally. have been soft goods and the reverse? Have you ever seen people try to make stuff in soft goods that should not have been soft goods?

Mark Thibadeau: Yes.

Steven Julian: Wow, that was a long pause.

Mark Thibadeau: I’ll jump into advantages of cut and sew first. You can work quickly. You can prove concepts quickly. I like to talk about it in terms of failing fast. But you can easily put together a quick proof of concept and have a really reasonable chance of success. And it doesn’t really involve any CAD time, 3D modeling, printing, anything like that. You can mock something up on a sewing machine pretty quickly and get to a proof of concept. And you can even get something that looks really finished and really polished. Now there’s upsides and downsides to that as well, which we can touch on later on. In terms of products where things should have been or shouldn’t have been soft goods, I’ve definitely seen examples of straps. Sometimes they’re on laptop cases or they’re on. I’ve even seen them on some bike racks where… It’s made out of like a webbing, which is like a really thick woven strap. You would know what it. was if you’ve seen it before, but it’s basically a really strong strap where things are made out of webbing, and it really is kind of inconsistent with the design language of the product and should have been a molded piece, you know, TPU or another kind of flexible plastic molded piece would have been much. Better execution there. Now that’s, you know, open to design interpretation, of course. But then there’s cases where people have used a molded part and really should have thought about the fabric a little bit. I’ve seen like in really functional products like camping stoves, for instance, where there’s been like molded, complex molded kind of koozies for like a hot. Like a pot you might boil water in and there’s like a molded koozie around it. Could easily be a piece of fabric sewn into a circle. You know, and you get the right fabric and the right properties there and you can easily use soft goods instead of having to tool up and mold a piece of plastic.

Noah McNeely: Yes, that would have saved them thousands of dollars in tooling and probably per piece cost on that, right?

Mark Thibadeau: Yeah, and depending upon your. perspective, it probably would have looked better as well. Lots of advantages there. Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. But the taste is just the beginning. With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Try today at getopu.com. That’s getopu.com.

Steven Julian: We’re speaking with Mark Thibadeau. He is here with Black Thread Creative. He’s the owner and chief poobah of Black Thread Creative. And I just reset the show and now know I’m going to ask you a question. So how’s that for pivoting? Because the question- Very determined and deliberate.

Noah McNeely: Yes.

Steven Julian: The question I was going to ask that I had my hand raised is- I think there’s very obvious market for people who I want to create a new bag. I want to create something that is very obviously, this is almost completely a soft good. I need someone like Mark who can help me with that. I’m wondering in your line of work, I’m wondering as you’re helping inventors, entrepreneurs, are there scenarios where they’re not even? thinking of needing? Some kind of soft, good work. They’re not even thinking of sewing and designing in that respect. Do you, without giving away, of course, clients you’re working with or clients from the past, but have you had to have conversations where it’s like, no, no, we can’t use duct tape. We need to, you know, we need to do this.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. In fact, the project Mark and I are working on together now, I can’t reveal all the details, but it’s an outdoor game for all practical purposes. And it’s got a variety of different components. Some are plastic, some are fabric, and we’re in the exploration phase of looking at different scenarios. Now, in this one, pretty well knew we were going to have a fabric element to start with, and so that’s why I reached out to Mark at the beginning. How we integrate that fabric can take a lot of different forms. So Mark’s been helpful with that. But to your point, there are other cases where maybe it’s not even replacing duct tape with fabric, but there are places where we’ve got a plastic hinge that could be, which is. expensive to mold, and you’ve got to put a pin in it. Assembly is a pain. That could easily, in some cases, be a fabric-type hinge. that, frankly, I need to do a better job of considering as well. You know, these are things I’m aware of. But having someone with Mark on board that I can bounce these things off of will open up more opportunities there, even beyond what I was already thinking of. And that gives my clients more opportunities as well to, you know, again, let’s say we’ve got a product we’re working on and for whatever reason, it’s got to cost $5 or less because of the market space and we’re at $6, $7. We’ve got to find places to save money on that. That might be looking at fabric in some places, in some cases.

Steven Julian: All I’m thinking is denim hinge. That’s all I’m thinking of, but that’s my problem, not yours.

Noah McNeely: And Sidney Sweeney can be the model for it. We don’t need to get into that controversy today.

Steven Julian: So loyal listeners of our show will now know right about when we recorded this, when it comes out, because I think if you. did that a month later. The news moves so fast now and AI and the robots back in the lair that are, you know, yeah, exactly. Sydney Bristow from Alias. Anyway, Mark, I was going to ask you on your website, there’s a. there’s also a little. there’s a lot on your website with. it’s very clean, very straightforward. It’s not it’s not a rabbit hole necessarily. But I want you to. I want you to talk a little bit about kind of designing for sustainability. Obviously, that is a. Very important concept in today’s world. So when it’s talking about dealing with fabric and dealing with soft goods, what role does sustainability play, especially when your clients are kind of wanting to focus on that?

Mark Thibadeau: Yeah, that’s a great question. And sustainability is a really big problem in the textile world. You know, you maybe have heard about how many clothes we buy that go into the dumpster. How we can make our textile products more sustainable. And there’s a number of different ways where we can look at that. And the first is we kind of talk about an RSL list or a restricted substance list. A lot. of sophisticated companies will have this and they’ll publish it and they’ll use it as sort of a sourcing guide. Of what they can and cannot use. And these are all, there’s a minefield of chemicals that go into fabrics that can be harmful to your skin, that can be harmful to your child, that can be harmful to the atmosphere, that can be harmful to something else that it touches. We’ve all had color come off of our new blue jeans in the washing machine and stain everything blue. So those denim hinges might not work so well. Dang it. All of those are chemicals that go into fabrics and that’s what makes fabric stiff or not stiff, soft or the color that we want or waterproof the way we want them. And so navigating those chemicals when we talk about soft goods, what’s going into the product, what are we exposing ourselves to when we use this product? That’s something that we can help with at Black Thread Creative. Every company’s goals are different, but that’s something we can certainly help with. And depending upon where you want to sell your market or sell your product, different retailers, for example, REI has a pretty strict list of substances they will not sell. And kudos to them for kind of taking a leadership role there. But a lot of other retailers are jumping on that. That train as well. And so if you have a PVC in your product, for example, that’s something they won’t sell. And so it’s a hard stop. As soon as you walk in the door, you don’t even have a chance to get that product placed. So you have to be aware of this stuff and who you’re selling to and what they’re asking for.

Noah McNeely: And it seems like the other… I’m sorry, go ahead.

Mark Thibadeau: Go ahead, yeah.

Noah McNeely: I was going to say, it seems like the other side…

Mark Thibadeau: I can go deep on this one, so… Yeah.

Noah McNeely: We’re going to keep crashing together like this, but it seems like the other side of that sustainability is also designing and specifying materials for the intended life of the product. So if you have a product that really should be something that’s going to last for years, that probably drives you toward a different class of materials than if you have something that is really. going to be used once or twice and then goes into the landfill, will drive you toward thinner materials that degrade faster or whatever. The expert on different fabrics that do that, but it seems like that would be a really important level of creativity when you’re developing a soft good as well.

Mark Thibadeau: You’re absolutely right. You know, we look at something as simple as kind of the thickness of the fabric for a more durable product. You know, you’d want something obviously thicker and heavier, but that limits what you can do with it on a sewing machine. So, you know, it’s harder to move. It’s harder to manipulate. So, yeah, you absolutely have to design for the materials that you want to use for, you know, kind of the right life cycle. A lot of folks, you know, want to think about, can this be repaired? They want to think about, you know, is my zipper going to last longer than my fabric? Can we make them? Can we sort of optimize our costs so that it’s all kind of balanced out, everything kind of falls apart at the same time? Or that it’s going to last for? as long as you want to use it. Some folks want to put a lifetime guarantee on their product as kind of a way to facilitate trust with their customer. And you have to stand behind that. And so you have to design for that.

Steven Julian: It was funny. You were talking about a lifetime guarantee. That’s why I would always close my business every 18 months and then reopen it and do a different name. But that is why I’m not in the line of work you guys do. I’m going to ask the question. that’s on certain people in this audience, me included. Where’d the name come from? Black Thread Creative. Why?

Noah McNeely: Black Thread. Yeah. Sorry.

Steven Julian: Black Thread Creative. Why? Where’d that come from? Just one of us. Yeah.

Mark Thibadeau: So black thread is, it came from sort of the depths of my own mind, you know, but black thread is the color of thread that you use in a prototype. So, you know, in a nice finished product, you might match your thread color to the fabric. It’s a little sewer’s trick, kind of helps create a really clean finish. In a prototype, you’re not always as worried about. looks and you might be worried more about function. Black Thread kind of, you know, is a nod towards our prototype heavy approach. It’s a nod toward our function first approach. And I don’t know, I thought it kind of sounded cool.

Steven Julian: I agree. Sounds very good.

Mark Thibadeau: That’s what Black Thread is.

Noah McNeely: Sort of a pirate element to it. I like it. I like it too. Before we kind of get to the wrap up here, one of the things you and I were talking about kind of… Pre-show chatting while we’re waiting on certain people to arrive.

Steven Julian: Is that a backhanded compliment that I was late?

Noah McNeely: Absolutely. So you and I were talking about some of the things that Black Thread and you can do to help people. Obviously, we talked about design and prototypes, but we also talked about there’s dangers that they’re out there in the space. You can help them avoid and how to scale and how to commercialize and how to really. Find the right factories. A lot of the stuff I do, but really more in the soft goods space, I think. You want to touch on that for us and for our listeners?

Mark Thibadeau: Yeah, I’d love to. We talked earlier about how easy it is to make a product. There’s no tooling costs. It’s possible to do it without any CAD work. And that’s great for getting a quick prototype up and running. Once you go to commercialize, you don’t have any tooling. The tooling really sets tolerancing and really sets sizing and scale. When you’re dealing with fabric, if there’s no tooling, you’re kind of out in the Wild West when it comes to control of what you’re getting off the production floor. Take that into consideration and realize that you might get a perfect sample from a sample room. Those sample rooms are often the best sewers that you’ll find. They’re highly creative, highly intelligent people, and they deliver you a beautiful sample. When you scale and you go to a full production, you’re dealing, I shouldn’t say dealing, you’re working with the folks who are trained to move fast and they are not looking at details. They’re running a sewing machine at 3,000 stitches per minute, which is blindingly fast. And they’re not always paying attention to details. So you have to make sure that your tolerancing is appropriate and. verbalized, written down. The factory needs to know, you know, I can accept a plus minus three millimeter, five millimeter tolerance on these different areas. If it’s in spec, great. If it’s out of spec, great. If you don’t give a tolerance, there’s really no, it’s not a realistic approach to manufacturing the soft goods. So you have to be aware of what your factory can do, what they’re willing to do, what they’re willing to commit to, and what’s okay, you know, as the marketer of the product to accept.

Noah McNeely: And is that all stuff you can help? You can navigate for a client, right?

Mark Thibadeau: Absolutely. Absolutely. We can do comprehensive lists of sort of quality inspections, specifications for product to make sure that everything is as intended as you want it. So when you take it to a factory to scale, you get what you want in the production run, not just from the sample room.

Steven Julian: Mark, I would think, I’m going to bet. That there are listeners to this podcast that right now are just screaming, I found what I was looking for. Mark will help me.

Noah McNeely: But they’re not all 95-year-old women.

Steven Julian: No, right. I didn’t.

Noah McNeely: know what that was all about.

Steven Julian: Well, listen, I, okay, apparently I got to work on my voices. I apologize.

Mark Thibadeau: Wow.

Steven Julian: Just show up late for one recording.

Noah McNeely: You sounded like the old lady at the end of Titanic.

Steven Julian: What’s wrong with the old lady from the end of Titanic? She was an iconic character that we’re still talking about 30 years later. Okay, there are other people who are going, I want to work with Mark since I’m a pro wrestling fan. That’s much better. Yeah, exactly. So if people want, if they need soft goods, if they need stuff put together, if they want to talk to you about denim hinges. Or maybe rayon. I don’t know. I’m still trying to think of the best fabric to use for that. How do they get in touch with you? What’s the best place to go? Give website, phone number, email, whatever you want to give contact information-wise.

Mark Thibadeau: Great. Yeah. So you can find me at blackthreadcreative.com. It’s spelled just like it sounds, blackthreadcreative.com. You can also email me at Blackthreadcreative.com. So I’ll see both of those. There’s a contact form on the website you can use and that lists. phone number and email or you can just send me a short blurb right from the website. You can find me on LinkedIn as well and you can search for me or you can search for Black Thread Creative. And get in touch. Come one, come all. Love to hear from you. And we could just talk shop, if nothing else. But also, if there’s a way to work together, that’d be cool, too.

Noah McNeely: And you’re in Atlanta, but you can work with clients anywhere, right?

Mark Thibadeau: Absolutely. Can work anywhere. Yeah. And I’ve worked in my career all over the world. So I’m happy to work with anyone. From anywhere.

Steven Julian: And the connection may have been just a little wonky there. It’s hihi at blackthreadcreative.com as the email?

Mark Thibadeau: That’s correct.

Steven Julian: Fantastic.

Mark Thibadeau: hi at blackthreadcreative.com. All right.

Steven Julian: So one last question for longtime fans of this show, along to the loyal listeners, the dozens and dozens of loyal listeners of our show. On your contact form, are people allowed to just say, I have a great idea for a soft good, call me or reach out to me? Will you answer that immediately? Or like Noah, will you say, I’ll get? to it, but it’ll take me a while?

Mark Thibadeau: I’ll get to it as fast as I can. Yeah, absolutely. I have a great idea. I want to talk to you about it. And we can get the ball rolling.

Steven Julian: I like it.

Mark Thibadeau: Get to a place where we can talk about it.

Steven Julian: Fantastic. Mark Thibadeau from Black Thread Creative. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. We really appreciate your time. Noah and I are now going to talk about you behind your back as we wrap up the show.

Noah McNeely: Only good things.

Mark Thibadeau: Thanks so much for having me.

Steven Julian: Absolutely. Thank you, Mark. Only good things. All right. So, Noah. Great guest. Great guest. Noah McNe

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: