Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Yet another first for Product Genius. Today, we welcome into the studios our first three synthetic guests. Oh, yeah. Things are going to get really artificial today. Next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes, it’s your slightly annoying co-host. That’s what she just said. See, I took the line back from her. It’s Steven Julian. I am sitting deep inside the layer of product quick start seated around the workshop table. To my right, furiously taking notes, probably of something he needs to edit that I screwed up that you’ll never hear because he’s so good. It’s the intrepid producer, Jody Smith, seated across the table from me, feeling groovy, feeling funky, feeling sinusy here in the just. beginning stages of spring in Georgia. It is he who is known as Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Well, hello. And I need to point out to the audience that Groovy and Funky were both before my time.

Steven Julian: Yes.

Noah McNeely: Sinus is applicable.

Steven Julian: What is the right? So you would be an 80s child, kind of 80s teenager like me.

Noah McNeely: I’m a Gen Xer. Yeah.

Steven Julian: So Groovy and Funky. So our equivalent was gnarly, awesome, tubular. I didn’t use tubular.

Noah McNeely: I’m also a little ashamed to say I wasn’t a cool enough kid to know what the terminology was.

Steven Julian: Neither was I. That doesn’t mean I didn’t try to use the terminology. I mean, I was watching wrestling on Channel 69 Saturday nights with Joe Petticino and Bonnie Blackstone. Shout out to the two greatest hosts and co-hosts in the history of television.

Noah McNeely: Maybe I was a little cooler than you.

Steven Julian: Saturday morning, MST3K, 10 o’clock on Comedy Central. Come on, Joel Hodgson.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, see, I was a nerdy kid.

Steven Julian: Brian Nelson, sorry.

Noah McNeely: One of the happiest days of my childhood was when I got a Commodore 64 computer and, you know, I come out of my room.

Steven Julian: No, you were nerdier than me. You were just a different nerd. You were a different nerd. You were an engineering nerd.

Noah McNeely: Back then, for anyone who was born less than 40 years ago, you had to have this machine next to your computer that you put these big flat things in. And when you wanted to load a game. You have to like just do five of them. Well, you get started and you walk away and then you come back. Is it done? Nope. Is it done? Nope. And eventually you get to play the game. Then it’d be time to, you know, it’s time to go to bed.

Steven Julian: If there ever was a show, I wish Jody had a microphone. This is one of those shows because I’d love to know what he, he’s more of a nineties kid and I’d love, oh, well, late eighties, early nineties. I’d love to know what his, uh, yeah, you were, you, yeah.

Noah McNeely: What was your first Nintendo system that you played? Was it the original or the Super NES or something later?

Steven Julian: Really? Okay. The original.

Noah McNeely: Wow.

Steven Julian: Now, were you Atari 2600? Okay. Okay. So I apologize. He’s older than you. We’re a tribe.

Noah McNeely: He’s. older than you.

Steven Julian: We are family. We are family. That was 79. I was seven. So also the theme song of the Pittsburgh Pirates, World Champs. Shout out Chuck Tanner. Best friend, Hank’s favorite manager. Okay, we are way off track. You know what we need? We need to introduce our guests. Noah brought the most unique guest in the history of Product Genius. One last shout out. Shout out to Tiffany, who created the show and is doing Opu Probiotics. When I re-listen to the show, we get to hear the nice little ads that they’ve given us. She would have never thought of bringing in the guests that you brought in.

Noah McNeely: Perhaps not.

Steven Julian: And so I shouted her out and then I kind of dissed her. So we’ll see if she listens, if she sends an email to me.

Noah McNeely: We’re going to get another one of those letters.

Steven Julian: Well, she hasn’t sent any letters. Are you introducing them?

Noah McNeely: I can introduce them.

Steven Julian: Please. This would be great.

Noah McNeely: So we have three guests today. They’re all nonverbal. So we’re going to have to be basically Stephen and I will be communicating their answers to the various. Yes. Things we. discuss, they’re also, all three of them are synthetic. And that’s just a way of saying. we interview three different AI platforms about some topics related to inventors. We want to talk about how useful they are.

Steven Julian: On what they said. We’re going to bring the results of that interview here on today’s show.

Noah McNeely: One of these guests is very kind of thorough, very, very… You know, very intelligent and communicated really well. Another one was very kind of short and got to the point and not quite sure I agreed with everything. And then the third one was quite rude.

Steven Julian: And I think the, I think one of them is pretty well known. Second one, maybe kind of most, some people know. And the third one, maybe one of them might be slightly obscure. People don’t know about them. So, so chat GPT, that’s probably the one most people know. And that’s kind of the down to business thorough. Kind of, that’s our guest.

Noah McNeely: So not only did ChatGPT answer our questions, it provided additional solutions. Yes. Which was a nice touch.

Steven Julian: And footnote and end notes and all that kind of stuff. Gemini is the second one.

Noah McNeely: Yes. And Gemini answered questions, but it really didn’t tell us what to do with those answers. Okay. Like ChatGPT, but still useful information.

Steven Julian: Slightly better than a search engine, but not by much. Yeah. Third one is, I think maybe your favorite Venice AI.

Noah McNeely: So it’s not my favorite. Do you use generally?

Steven Julian: It was a favorite for this interview.

Noah McNeely: It’s my favorite for this exercise. So Venice AI is a unfiltered AI and it’s free just like some of the others. And what’s fun about it or what was fun about it here is I told it to answer the questions in a rude way. And I found that actually to be the most useful.

Steven Julian: Yes. To which, okay, we’ll get to that at the end. Okay. So we’re getting AI to answer, you know, and your premise for this show. Was, quote, everybody is going to AI to get answers these days. Now, I am also old enough to go, I don’t use AI. Get off my lawn. But sometimes you almost, even if you don’t want to use AI, you can’t help it. It’s beginning to be… Oh, yeah.

Noah McNeely: The search engines are forcing it on you. now. You do a search in Google, and it’s going to give you the AI summary first. Right.

Steven Julian: In my day job, one of my subscriptions is a website called SeekingAlpha.com. Shout out to them. Happy for them to be a sponsor of our show if they give us some money, but they won’t. But Seeking Alpha, I go to get trade ideas for stocks, bonds, mutual funds, things like that. And they just recently this year unearthed or opened up. When you go to their list of articles, you used to be able to just click and go to the article, and there might be a couple of subheadings that the author would write. Now, it’s almost like a two-paragraph summation by AI. So AI-generated summary, and then go, do you want to read the full article? So I’m not quite sure how I feel about that. Anyway, sorry, a little side note. So you asked our three guests, do you want to give the question of what you asked?

Noah McNeely: No, go ahead.

Steven Julian: Okay. You asked three different AIs to tell the top seven mistakes that inventors make. First thing I want to say, none of the AIs gave. you more than seven.

Noah McNeely: I didn’t count. Or less. No, I think they all gave exactly seven. So seven’s not a magic number. It’s just a number I picked.

Steven Julian: Yeah, I’m a little disappointed with that. I wish one of the AIs would be, you gave me seven, but I’m going to give you eight.

Noah McNeely: Well, I did ask the question earlier and I only got like four responses. So I’m like, I want more than that. I went back and standardized it to seven.

Steven Julian: Got it. All right. And give us a little bit before we get into the specifics of what our different guests said, synthetic guests, I like that word. Give us some of your kind of 50,000 foot view. take of what you noticed as you looked at the results of their answers.

Noah McNeely: Sure. And let me be upfront here. I actually use AI. I find it to be very useful for doing research and things, but. As I kind of told you before the show, getting AI to do your research is a little bit like hiring an intern to do it. Maybe they kind of know what they’re doing. Maybe they kind of don’t. So it can be useful, but be a little suspect of it too. And I found that in some of these answers.

Steven Julian: You should not simply rely on what AI tells you. Right. Unless it’s a very, yeah, trust but verify. Ooh.

Noah McNeely: Yes.

Steven Julian: I’m needle pointing that later. Go ahead.

Noah McNeely: Overall, you asked what’s the top assessment. So I found that the advice the AIs gave in general, it was kind of top level. It’s stuff you could find on your own by poking around the internet. It was kind of consensus level stuff. I found some things that were a little bit deeper that were missing. And I also thought it was interesting to note what things they agreed on and maybe some things that were uniquely focused on by the different ones. Yeah.

Steven Julian: So they didn’t all say the same thing. I think that’s one of the things that’s pretty interesting. You also kind of noticed that, hey, this version maybe was a little more patent-oriented. This version was a little more all-inclusive of the entire business, marketing, et cetera. So there was definitely some differences, because you ask the same question other than the… Venice, asking him. to answer you rudely, you did ask the same question, correct? Worded the same way.

Noah McNeely: Exactly the same way. And I worded it the same way for Venice, too. And by the way, we’re saying Venice like the city in Italy, not the planet.

Steven Julian: Well, that would be Venus.

Noah McNeely: I know, but I have a southern accent.

Steven Julian: It’s V-E-N-I-C-E, Venice. Okay. You’re doing great. Venice.

Noah McNeely: Yes, Venice.

Steven Julian: Is that Vanilla Ice’s brother?

Noah McNeely: So I asked the exact same wording. I just added an additional sentence that said, be as rude as possible.

Steven Julian: You know, I just gave a great cultural reference joke and you just glossed right over it.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve never been a fan of the Noahs.

Steven Julian: Who has? Doesn’t mean he’s not funny.

Noah McNeely: He did do that Home Improvement Show. No, no, no. He did that Home Improvement Show. That was actually the one thing I watched. It was interesting. All right.

Steven Julian: I’m YouTubing that later.

Noah McNeely: We are getting too far off.

Steven Julian: Jody nodded in hearty approval to that. Okay, let’s get back to the topic at hand. Get mad at us if we don’t bring more.

Noah McNeely: So you mentioned the patent. So Jim and I, three of. their seven, well, two very specifically focused on patents and one was kind of touched on patents. Maybe it’s because Google has a whole Google patents thing. So there might be more kind of patent related data. They’re mining of their, I don’t know. I don’t know why it did that. I thought that was interesting. There were some unique things that Jim and I brought up. One of its seven was Some inventors just give up too easily and the others didn’t mention that.

Steven Julian: Did you print exactly what they, what it’s?

Noah McNeely: That’s it.

Steven Julian: Okay.

Noah McNeely: Cut and paste it right there for you, my friend.

Steven Julian: So they made a grammatical error. They do that?

Noah McNeely: Yeah.

Steven Julian: Why?

Noah McNeely: AIs do that a lot. I don’t know. Okay.

Steven Julian: Unless you tell them- Why would I trust someone that doesn’t know TO or TOO giving up too easily?

Noah McNeely: However, for some reason, I do find that chat GPT, if you tell it to proofread this, it doesn’t make those errors. Oh, okay. Okay. Again, it’s all magic to me. I don’t know how exactly it works. It has to do with math. Okay.

Steven Julian: So giving up too easily. So they talked about patents, but then one of the things Gemini said that I don’t think any of the others said was giving up too easily.

Noah McNeely: That and sometimes inventors have poor record keeping.

Steven Julian: I thought that was interesting too.

Noah McNeely: I thought those were both good things. Those are mistakes inventors make. However, they’re kind of not in my top seven. So I was a little curious why those were there.

Steven Julian: Well, let me expound on just one of them. So the poor record keeping, because I thought that was interesting. That’s actually not just inventors. I would say small business owners. That might be one of the top seven mistakes. So not maintaining detailed records of the invention’s development, including dates, drawings, and prototypes. This can be crucial for patent applications and legal disputes. We’ve had a conversation recently on this show about NDAs. So yeah, that’s interesting. You got to keep your ducks in a row. Yeah.

Noah McNeely: And I should say everything that both, well, that all three of these spat out, it’s all, for the most part, good, though some of it I think is incomplete. And there were, and especially the areas where they agreed, I thought was good advice. And just thematically, what those were was sometimes inventors don’t take the time to know their market. That’s a big mistake that we see. And they all mentioned that. Sometimes inventors don’t appreciate the importance of prototyping and testing their prototype. They all mentioned that, which was good. They all did talk about IP strategy and patent on some level. Some, like Jim and I focused more on that. ChatGPT just sort of barely touched on it, but it was still mentioned. I thought that was good. And one of the biggest ones, which I harp on a lot probably on this show, is they all mentioned not getting help. Some inventors make the mistake of wanting to do everything on their own, even though they reach a point where they would be better off getting someone else, whether it’s to do engineering like I do or product design like I do or someone to do their logo or their marketing or whatever it is. Sometimes there are experts out there that could do it, even though you have to pay them, cheaper than you can do it if you look at your time and your chance of failure. Yeah.

Steven Julian: Good point. And what’s interesting is as I looked over the list, a lot of these have been topics of multiple shows in some cases, and I’ll just say it just so that it’s stated. You cover the topic much better than they did in their answers. Now, these are just overviews.

Noah McNeely: I’m actual I. Yes. Or at least some days I’m actual I.

Steven Julian: Hey, Noah I. N-I. You know what else that spells?

Noah McNeely: N-I. N-I. We don’t say that word.

Steven Julian: You’re the Knights of Knee.

Noah McNeely: We don’t say that word.

Steven Julian: Yeah, we do. I said it again. All right. So, and the other thing I found interesting is while they said sometimes the same things, the phrasing was a little bit of, again, three different guests, three different AIs sitting in our studio synthetically. So, you know, premature public disclosure. That was Gemini’s first one was sharing your information before securing patent protection. Whereas, oh, and I thought I had that. That was a, I thought there was a different one of that, but I’m sorry, the neglecting intellectual property protection rather than ignoring intellectual property strategy. You know, the just, and so you could go, ah, what’s the? big deal? It’s just a couple of words, but this is what AI does, correlating the data and then spitting it out in a particular way.

Noah McNeely: And the Gemini answer kind of felt like they took one answer and divided it into two, kind of like when you’re writing a paper in high school and you’re like, I don’t know what else to say.

Steven Julian: This is very, very important. Just important.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. And I know Gemini is newer and they’re probably still working on it. Well, they’re working on all of them. But ChatGPT’s answer on that one was ignoring intellectual property. IP strategy is a mistake people make, inventors make. And it says, you know, some inventors file too early. Others don’t file at all or they don’t protect their idea at all. So it kind of identified. More of a blanket, you know, IP strategy is having an IP strategy is important. That doesn’t mean you have to patent it. Sometimes you don’t. Sometimes the strategy is to not patent it. It just depends on what it is. But ChatGPT went a step further and gave us the fix.

Steven Julian: Yeah, every single one of them had a proposed. fix.

Noah McNeely: A proposed fix. And theirs was understand different IP protections. What’s a patent? What’s a trademark? What’s a trade secret? And develop a strategy that aligns with your business goals. So good advice, not very deep. I mean, it’s still like, you know, the mistake you might make is not having an IP strategy, fix it, have an IP strategy. Right.

Steven Julian: Well, and that’s, it’s funny. So you said, hey, ChatGPT went a step further and gave you fixes. The one right underneath that one. Well, some of them were kind of almost ridiculous. Or I’ll make fun of them because that’s my job as the slightly annoying co-host. Number four, underestimating manufacturing and scaling costs. Just because an invention works in a prototype doesn’t mean it will be cost effective at scale. You know, that’s a good point, ChatGPT. Do you have a fix for that? Yes. Get quotes from manufacturers early and factor in tooling, logistics, and quality control. You’re restating the fact as a fix.

Noah McNeely: But you know, there are people I met that need that sometimes. You know, it’s these, here’s your problem. Well, how do I fix it? Well, you just don’t do what. the problem is.

Steven Julian: So the algorithm said if people hear it twice, it might sink in. So instead of just repeating it, let’s change and make it a fix. But we’re really saying the same thing, just in the concept of a fix rather than a statement.

Noah McNeely: My head hurts when I bump it into walls. Fix it by don’t bump it to the wall.

Steven Julian: So pay attention to your head and spatial awareness of where the wall is. Avoid contact with the wall and therefore your head won’t hurt. Right.

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Steven Julian: So that’s what they agreed on. Let’s, and we’ll still maybe, and I don’t know if the audience is sitting with their device going, read all the answers, read all the, we didn’t want to turn this into just a, you know, just a spouting answers. In fact, I’ll give, I’ll. give a little homework if everybody wants to. The specific wording was, give me the seven most common mistakes that inventors make.

Noah McNeely: I said, give me seven top mistakes inventors make. Okay.

Steven Julian: So anybody can go to any.

Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get different answers because it’s not quite like a search engine. It’s not going to give you, it’s going to go out and do its analysis and it’s going to come back.

Steven Julian: Is that because the data on the internet is always changing? Do you have any answer to the magic of that? Or is it like.

Noah McNeely: I have some theories. I think there’s way more data on the information, data on the internet, information on the internet than it can put into one response. I think there’s also data on the internet. Some of it’s right, some of it’s wrong, some of it’s a little bit of both.

Steven Julian: How does it know what’s right and what’s wrong?

Noah McNeely: So if it reads conflicting things, what does it tell you? Sometimes it doesn’t know what to say.

Steven Julian: So the next episode we’ll do around AI is, is it all actually just the Wizard of Oz? pay no attention to. the man behind the curtain? But that’s another story. But to the point, you as someone who’s been in this market and done this for a living, looked at these answers and go, yeah, these are good answers. So we talked about what they agreed on. You also found it a little interesting. And so let’s have the conversation with our three guests. What were some of the things? they… Either not disagreed on or that one said that another one didn’t and, and kind of what’s, and maybe what did they not put in there? that you would go, Hey, I, if I made a list of seven, I may not put all these on there, but at least one or two of these should have been on at least one of the lists.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So, so some things that were unique, uh, we already talked about Jim and I say giving up too easily, poor record keeping, um, ChatGPT had running out of money is a mistake inventors make. And Jim and I kind of touched on that and understand your business, but I thought that was very specific and actually gave, you know, suggestions about this. You. run out of money doing these types of things. So be careful about it. Venice, the rude one, the one I marked as unique is, so you think you’re the first person to ever have this idea? Newsflash, you’re not special. Someone somewhere has already thought of your revolutionary idea. Do your due diligence and find out if it’s already been done. So that’s their rude way, which I find amusing and actually very direct to the point and possibly more useful of saying, go do your patent search. See if it’s out there. You know, have an IP strategy. Understand the market.

Steven Julian: You like the way they said that.

Noah McNeely: Oh, I loved it. Yeah. It matches my personality far too well.

Steven Julian: So let me ask the question a different way, Noah I. Were there any things you wish had been on one of those lists that if you were writing the top seven, you would go, this is near the top of the list?

Noah McNeely: Well, I wrote a list of things that I felt were left out. And maybe it’s not fair. Maybe it should have been top 10. But one I thought for sure should have been in. the top seven.

Steven Julian: Top 10 is trademarked by Worldwide Pants, I believe.

Noah McNeely: So I don’t know if you can use that. Top 10 and a half. One that I thought should definitely be in the top seven that was missing. is that because I see this and it’s the saddest thing in the world. Well, in the inventor space, I guess there are sadder things, but people falling for scams. And we all know, well, if you listen to this show, I’m not going to name any of the companies by name, but you probably know who they are. And people go there, their odds of success in the fine print, it’s very, very low. People send them lots of money because they’re playing to your hopes and dreams as an inventor. You get exactly what they tell you you’re going to get. Unfortunately, it is exactly 99.9% of the time exactly what you don’t need. So those, I categorize those as scams.

Steven Julian: If it’s coming from a late night TV commercial, please don’t engage them at all.

Noah McNeely: Right. Yeah.

Steven Julian: You also were talking with me about… And that’s kind of a concept we’ve talked about on this show.

Noah McNeely: It. is. So I don’t know if this should be a top seven, but for me it is. And it kind of relates to prototyping and other things they do touch on. And that is, and it kind of relates to the next one I wrote here too called, you know, Going in Circles is sometimes people get stuck on an idea and they don’t want to test it or they just spend so much time testing it over and over and over again. Even though they’re getting the answer that, hey, this doesn’t work. This doesn’t work. Stop trying to make this work. It’s never going to happen. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can make corrections or come up with something different and actually save your resources for a better idea or a better version of your idea.

Steven Julian: So let’s have a little fun.

Noah McNeely: Okay.

Steven Julian: Would you, I’m thinking Venice, you know, the one you like the most.

Noah McNeely: It’s the fun one for sure.

Steven Julian: I think that’s the one we should read aloud. I think we should try to do our best Venice impression.

Noah McNeely: And then maybe interpret.

Steven Julian: And voice. Yeah. So how about if I read? them and you interpret quickly?

Noah McNeely: That sounds great.

Steven Julian: Okay. So first of all, they gave a little preamble because you said, you know, what are the seven top seven mistakes and do it in a rude voice or a rude way. Rude mode, I believe. So you want to know the top mistakes inventors make? Well, let me tell you, it’s a wonder any of you managed to create anything worthwhile. Here are the top seven mistakes, and I’m not going to sugarcoat it. Number one, you’re clueless about the market. I mean, come on, do your research. Just because you think something is a great idea doesn’t mean anyone else will. Get out of your garage and talk to people for crying out loud.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, and we’ve touched on this before. You talk to your mom if you want, but don’t talk to just her about this because she’s going to love your idea most likely. That doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. And oftentimes people do what I call answering a question that nobody’s asking. You know, maybe it seems cool to you and you made this thing work in your garage, but everybody out in the real. world is like, okay, so what? You want to make sure you’re not in that space. And I met people that are there and sometimes I can help them fix it. I can help them go back and say, okay, this is an interesting phenomenon you’ve built a prototype of. Let’s see if there’s any application for this outside of what you’re thinking, which we know isn’t an application. Once in a while, we’ll find that, but it’s always better, in my view, start with a problem. Don’t start with a solution.

Steven Julian: Number two, your prototype is a piece of junk. Seriously, how hard is it to build a decent prototype? It’s like you’re not even trying. Get it together or don’t bother showing it to anyone.

Noah McNeely: Well, this one I do disagree with a little bit because…

Steven Julian: I’m fighting with Venice.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s okay if your early prototypes are a piece of junk. It’s not okay if that’s as far as you take it typically. I mean, if you go to the trade show with toothpicks, duct tape, and Play-Doh, that’s not going to go over real well. So you do need to graduate to better prototypes as. your business moves along. But your first one, it can be a piece of junk. You’re just trying to learn something you don’t know there. And you do that as inexpensively as you can. Don’t spend three years on toothpicks, duct tape, and Play-Doh because you’re just spinning your wheels. You’ve got to advance.

Steven Julian: Going in circles. Number three, you think you’re the first person to ever have this idea? Okay, you already read that one, so we’ll skip that one. Four, you’re horrible at marketing. I mean, I’ve, so by the way, they say, I mean, that’s the second time they said, I mean.

Noah McNeely: Well, this is the rude one. Yeah, I know. Grammar may not have been its.

Steven Julian: You’re horrible at marketing. I mean, I’ve seen better marketing campaigns from a middle schooler. Old schoolers are good marketers. If you can’t sell your idea, it doesn’t matter how good it is. Get some help or get out.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so if you’re out there as an inventor and you’re thinking one of the following things, this should be a red flag. One, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Or two, everyone’s going to buy this. Neither of them, well, the first one is, well, there’s probably a million reasons why someone wouldn’t buy it. And number two, no, everybody’s, there’s no product that everybody buys. So you really do need to understand your market so that you can market to them. I really love working with clients who have niche products because those are target markets that we can reach inexpensively or relatively inexpensively. You can’t market a product to everybody. You don’t have the money. You don’t have the time. You’re not proct and gamble. You can market to people that love fly fishing because you can go to that Facebook group or that Reddit board or whatever and you can buy an ad just for them. But you need to understand. You either need to understand how to market, how to reach that market, how to talk to that market, or you need to find someone to work with that can do that for you.

Steven Julian: Number five, you’re not willing to iterate. Let me reiterate that number five. You’re not willing to iterate. Your first draft is rarely going to be perfect. Be willing to make changes to take feedback and to improve. your design. If you’re not, then you’re just wasting everyone’s time.

Noah McNeely: So these are the people that… It’s going to sound like I’m bashing my clients.

Steven Julian: That’s not really that rude the way he said it, but go ahead. I’m sorry.

Noah McNeely: So these, I’m going to be rude about it. So these are the people that come to me and they hire me. Hey, help me make this better. Help me get it to the market. Help me. I want this to be a great product and I want to launch and I want to make a lot of money. And then I give them five ways to make it better and none of them were their ideas. So they don’t like any of them, even though they would all help them get to the market. Their idea is unmanufacturable the way it is. And when I explain that to them, they don’t like that either. It’s got to be the way they did it. I had a client recently that we’re working on the product. We worked through these issues. There was a little bit of what felt like therapy along the way in the sense that they would. build something in the garage and it worked flawlessly. The problem is they spent dozens of hours dialing it in and tweaking it in ways that we cannot do. on the manufacturing floor when we’re making 5,000 of these things. We had to change it because you can’t have someone on the manufacturing floor spend an hour on each one polishing it just right. We’ve got to move past that. So sometimes I meet people that are so enamored with exactly the way they did it, it takes a while to break them out of that. And there’s nothing wrong with how they did it except I can’t manufacture it necessarily.

Steven Julian: It’s not wrong how they did it unless you want to make it a product on shelves or make thousands of them. Yes, exactly. Number six, you don’t understand the business side. Look, I get it. You’re an inventor, not an accountant, but that’s no excuse for not understanding the basics of business. Learn about patents, licensing, and funding, or you’ll get taken advantage of.

Noah McNeely: Well, that’s true. And in a way, this is kind of the biggest mistake I see people make. And I’m going to summarize it. a little bit differently and say that people… Do not treat their invention endeavor as a business. They don’t know how to treat it. Is it a hobby? Is it just something I’m doing on the side? They think it works differently than other businesses. It doesn’t. It’s still a

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: