Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups
Honest advice for inventors—with obscure cultural references included at no extra charge.
Episode
244
Inventor of The Caulking Finger: Daniel Stephenson
What can inventors learn from a professional painter who turned a worn-out fingertip into a real product sold through paint stores, hardware retailers, and major online channels? Steven and Noah sit down with Daniel Stephenson, inventor of The Caulking Finger, to explore his two-year journey from homemade silicone prototype to manufactured product. They discuss prototyping, investors, material and manufacturing decisions, the challenge of selling a single-SKU product, retail placement, product demonstrations, patent research, and the old-fashioned hustle required to get an invention onto store shelves—with plenty of finger jokes along the way.
Core Topics for this episode:
- Interviews
- Invention Process
Key Takeaways Include:
Listen here:
Episode Blog
The Caulking Finger: What Inventors Can Learn From a Simple Product That Solves a Real Problem
Some inventions begin with advanced technology, years of research, and a laboratory full of equipment.
Others begin with a sore finger.
In this episode of Product Genius, Steven Julian and Noah McNeely sit down with Daniel Stephenson, a longtime professional painter and inventor of The Caulking Finger—a deceptively simple tool designed to do exactly what its name suggests: smooth caulk without destroying your actual fingertip.
Daniel’s story is a terrific case study for inventor entrepreneurs because it contains so many of the fundamentals that matter in successful product development: start with a problem you genuinely understand, build a rough prototype, test it with real users, bring in professionals where your expertise ends, find funding when it makes sense, hustle to make sales, and resist the urge to overcomplicate a product that already does its job.
Start With a Problem You Know Extremely Well
Daniel has been a paint contractor for more than 35 years.
That matters.
He did not discover the problem through a market-research report. He experienced it personally, over and over again.
Professional painters commonly smooth caulk with a fingertip. Do that occasionally around your house and it may be mildly annoying. Do it repeatedly as part of your livelihood and the skin can become raw, sore, cut, or splintered.
Eventually Daniel had enough.
His internal product-development brief was refreshingly concise:
“Go make a finger.”
So he did.
There is an important lesson here for inventors. Some of the best product opportunities hide inside repetitive frustrations that experienced users have simply learned to tolerate.
When you hear people say, “That’s just how we do it,” pay attention.
There may be an invention hiding nearby.
The First Prototype Does Not Need to Look Like a Product
Daniel’s first prototype was clever but decidedly homemade.
He used alginate—the type of material commonly used to create dental impressions—to make a mold of his own finger. He then cast a flexible finger, added a bent metal rod, and attached it to a handle.
It was not shelf-ready.
It did not need to be.
It answered the first important question:
Does the idea work?
That is what an early prototype is supposed to do.
Inventors often delay progress because they imagine their first prototype needs to resemble the finished product. It usually does not.
The earliest prototype should prove the riskiest assumptions as cheaply and quickly as practical.
Daniel made something he could actually use.
Then he handed prototypes to other professional painters.
They liked them.
That feedback gave him a reason to keep moving.
Bring In People Who Know What You Don’t
Daniel is a professional painter.
He is not an injection-molding engineer or polymer specialist.
And he did not pretend to be one.
After proving the basic idea, he hired people with the technical expertise to turn the concept into a manufacturable product.
Noah immediately recognizes one of the less-obvious challenges in the finished design: the flexible finger material.
The product combines a rigid molded handle with a softer, durable elastomeric finger. Selecting materials, designing tooling, controlling wall thicknesses, reducing material usage, and making the removable finger manufacturable all require knowledge that has little to do with painting.
Daniel summarizes the value of professional product-development help beautifully: that is where the people who “know what to do, how to do it” come in.
Inventors do not need to personally master every discipline.
They need to know when to bring the right discipline into the project.
Simple Products Still Require Engineering
The Caulking Finger looks simple.
That can create the illusion that it must have been simple to manufacture.
Not necessarily.
For example, the rigid handle is hollow in areas where solid plastic would provide little additional value. That reduces material cost and also makes conventional molding more practical.
The flexible finger also contains cavities that reduce the amount of the more expensive elastomeric material.
These are tiny details to a customer.
They are meaningful details to manufacturing economics.
A penny saved in a component produced tens or hundreds of thousands of times becomes real money.
Good product engineering frequently lives in places the customer never notices.
Don’t Over-Engineer a Product That Already Works
Daniel’s invention is fundamentally simple because the human behavior it replaces is simple.
People smooth caulk with a finger.
The Caulking Finger gives them another finger.
Some users still need a little instruction. Daniel explains that you turn and manipulate the tool just as you would your own fingertip.
That leads Noah and Steven into one of the classic inventor traps: responding to every isolated customer suggestion by adding features.
Someone somewhere will always ask why a simple product is not automatic, motorized, pneumatic, electronic, app-connected, or battery powered.
But every feature has a cost.
Complexity can increase tooling expense, manufacturing cost, failure modes, size, weight, customer confusion, and retail price.
If the $4 solution works, turning it into an $800 solution because one person suggested automation is probably not innovation.
It is feature creep.
Use Other People’s Money When It Makes Sense
Daniel also made another decision Noah highlights: he brought in an investor.
Many inventors become so determined to retain 100 percent ownership that they spend years slowly funding development from personal income.
There is no universal rule that says outside investment is always correct.
But there is also no prize for owning 100 percent of an invention that never reaches the market.
Daniel met his investor through his painting business. The investor saw an early prototype, liked the idea, and helped provide the resources to move it forward.
The entire journey from idea toward a market-ready product took roughly two years.
That is a very reasonable physical-product development timeline—and far faster than the decade-long crawl some self-funded inventions experience.
The Single-SKU Problem Is Real
One of the most useful business discussions in this episode concerns something many first-time inventors never consider:
Retailers may not love a company with only one product.
The Caulking Finger is physically small, inexpensive, and highly specialized.
That creates practical retail challenges.
Shipping a small quantity of one inexpensive item can consume too much margin. Retailers also think in terms of shelf layouts and planograms. A brand with eight related products can fill a meaningful section. One little product needs somewhere to live.
Daniel has adapted by shipping stores larger quantities—often a dozen rather than six—to make the shipping economics work better.
He is also thinking about additional SKUs, including different finger sizes that could fit the existing handle.
This is not merely about inventing more stuff.
A broader product line can improve freight economics, retail visibility, shelf presence, retailer relationships, and the overall value of a brand.
Think About Where the Product Will Live in the Store
Daniel sends retailers clip strips so The Caulking Finger can hang near the caulk.
That is smart merchandising.
A customer standing in front of caulk already has the problem in mind.
Put the solution directly beside the problem.
The product can also work as an impulse purchase near checkout, but the caulk aisle gives it immediate context.
Inventors often think intensely about what their package looks like but not enough about where that package will physically appear.
Ask:
What will be beside it?
What is the customer shopping for when they notice it?
Does the product explain itself quickly?
Will it disappear visually?
The Caulking Finger’s bright green and yellow colors help here too. Daniel originally chose a bright color so painters could find the tool after dropping it on a jobsite.
The same color also helps it stand out in retail.
Sometimes a functional design decision becomes a marketing advantage.
Getting Into Retail Requires Hustle
Daniel’s retail story is wonderfully unglamorous.
There was no magical phone call where every national retailer suddenly begged to carry his invention.
He worked relationships.
A Sherwin-Williams manager who knew him helped begin the process there.
For Lowe’s, Daniel participated in its product-review process and demonstrated the invention, ultimately getting the product onto Lowe’s online store.
For Ace Hardware, he worked through its submission process.
And for independent paint and hardware stores?
Daniel gets in the vehicle.
He makes demonstration boards at home, packs a caulking gun, caulk, and samples, and visits stores.
He demonstrates the product.
He lets buyers try it.
If they like it, he writes an invoice and leaves inventory.
Then he follows up.
He has traveled to different parts of the country and stopped at stores along the way.
As Daniel puts it:
“You got to hustle.”
That may be one of the most important lessons in the entire episode.
Inventing the product does not create distribution.
You still have to sell.
Demonstration Can Be a Superpower
The Caulking Finger has another commercial advantage: it is easy to demonstrate.
Daniel can put down a bead of caulk, smooth it with the tool, and let a store owner try it.
The value becomes obvious in seconds.
Inventors should think carefully about how their product can be demonstrated.
If the advantage is visual, show it.
If it saves time, demonstrate the before-and-after time.
If it reduces effort, let people feel the difference.
If it produces a better result, put the results side by side.
Do not make customers or buyers imagine a benefit you can prove in front of them.
Protect the Idea—But Keep Moving
When Noah asks Daniel what advice he would give someone at the beginning of the invention journey, Daniel starts with research.
Search for existing patents.
Research the idea thoroughly.
Use confidentiality agreements appropriately before disclosing non-public details.
Daniel also used a provisional patent application as part of his early strategy.
The legal specifics of patent rights can become complicated quickly, and inventors should get qualified patent advice for their individual situation.
But the broader principle is solid:
Understand the intellectual-property landscape early enough that you do not spend years developing something only to discover a major problem later.
At the same time, protection should support progress—not become an excuse to avoid talking with the professionals needed to actually develop the product.
Unexpected Uses Are a Bonus
Once a product enters the world, customers sometimes discover uses the inventor never imagined.
The Caulking Finger has apparently been used for crafting with hot glue, pottery work, pressing elevator buttons during the pandemic, and even sensory-related activities.
Some of these may become meaningful adjacent markets.
Some may simply be amusing stories.
The important thing is to listen without immediately redesigning the entire product around every unusual use.
Observe patterns.
If a meaningful group of customers repeatedly discovers the same secondary application, there may be a new market or SKU hiding there.
The Product Genius Take
Daniel Stephenson’s story is a reminder that an invention does not need to be complicated to be valuable.
It needs to solve a problem.
Preferably a real problem experienced by real people often enough that they are willing to pay for a better solution.
Daniel knew the problem because he lived it.
He made a crude prototype.
He put it in the hands of other professionals.
He brought in people with expertise he did not have.
He found investment.
He kept the product simple.
He learned the realities of retail.
And then he got in the car with demonstration boards and started selling.
That last part matters.
Inventors sometimes imagine that getting the engineering finished is the finish line.
It is not.
It is the point where a different kind of work begins.
Or, in Daniel’s case, where you load up the caulk gun, hit the road, walk into a store, and give them the finger.
The Caulking Finger, obviously.
Or, read the full transcript here:
Steven Julian: The NDA I just signed and our lawyers tell me that I’m legally and morally obligated to inform you that we’re going to give you the finger on this next show. It’s actually called the Calking Finger and the inventor, Daniel Stevenson, is in studio with us. Along with that, Jody’s going to have to bleep out some things and Noah and I talk about the Bible and being frustrated and he’s a little grumpy. But anyway, we’ll get into all that and more next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur?
Daniel Stephenson: Struggling to get your product from idea to market?
Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes, it’s your slightly annoying co-host. I decided not to do the long yes because Jody turned my levels up just a little bit more, and I appreciate. that. He is our intrepid producer, Jody Smith. I am your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Why am I slightly annoying? Because I already altered the intro to the show. Hey, that’s just what I do. Sitting across from me is the head genius, the show genius. The show, I can’t say creator, but I can say captain. It’s your host, Noah McNeely.
Noah McNeely: I’m not used to that level of praise. In fact, let me tell the audience that when we first sat down, I was admonished that the last time we recorded, I didn’t let Steven get a word in.
Steven Julian: Just at the beginning.
Noah McNeely: At the beginning. Just at the very beginning. And apparently he’s been stewing on that for two months now.
Steven Julian: And look at my response. I heap. Praise upon you, which proves the biblical reference that, you know, show love to your enemies.
Noah McNeely: Should I feel hot coals on my head right now?
Steven Julian: Yes, exactly. That’s what I was going for. How’d it go? Did I do good?
Noah McNeely: It burned.
Steven Julian: It burns. All right. We’ve got a cool show. We’ve got a great show. We’ve got a show that’s going to give people the finger. Okay. That’s the only one I’ll do. I apologize. We are very excited to have a guest in the studio. We have Daniel Stevenson. Daniel is the inventor and the owner of The Caulking Finger. And it is a fantastic little product. And I’ve got a little story of why Daniel is on the show. But before we get to that, because, you know, nobody likes to hear my stories. People want to hear the guests. So Daniel Stevenson of The Caulking Finger, welcome to Product Genius. Welcome to the lair. Welcome to the studio.
Daniel Stephenson: It’s good to be here. And I appreciate y’all inviting me.
Steven Julian: Absolutely.
Noah McNeely: Thank you for coming.
Steven Julian: Uh, everybody I know on the intro of the show, and because we don’t do this on video, everybody’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you say? The caulking finger? Tell everybody what it is and what your product does.
Daniel Stephenson: Well, it’s a tool for smoothing caulk. I’m a paint contractor, been a paint contractor for over 35 years. Got tired of wearing my finger out smoothing caulk, getting splinters, cutting them. So one day I was doing a big job and on the way home, I just said to myself, I said, self? Go make a finger. So I went home and made a finger.
Steven Julian: That’s the t-shirt right there. Go make a finger.
Daniel Stephenson: So I went home, went and got the stuff to make one, handed it out to several other paint contractors I knew. They liked it. And then went and started working on it. Hired some people smarter than me to make it work the way it should work.
Steven Julian: How long of a process was it from idea to… Hey, I’ve got something I can put in stores.
Daniel Stephenson: Almost two years.
Steven Julian: Okay. And so I’ll insert the story.
Noah McNeely: I have to ask a question.
Steven Julian: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I knew you’d jump in.
Noah McNeely: You said you went home and you got the stuff to make a finger. What was that? What was the stuff to make a finger at the beginning?
Daniel Stephenson: Well, I’ll tell you, I went.
Noah McNeely: Because I’ve got the finished product here and it’s really cool.
Daniel Stephenson: I went to, I can’t remember where it was at. I should have brought all of it. It’s alginate. That they make like dental implants. I went home, I bought some little paper Solo cups and I stuck. my finger in it and let it dry. Oh, wow. And then went and bought some stuff. They make Dyna something.
Noah McNeely: Dynaflex?
Daniel Stephenson: Yes, I think. So I went to a place in Atlanta and bought it what they make prosthetic hands and all. It was a silicone.
Noah McNeely: That’s a lot more sophisticated than some of the first prototypes I see from some of my people.
Daniel Stephenson: Oh, really?
Noah McNeely: Yeah, Play-Doh, rubber bands, et cetera. So that’s cool.
Daniel Stephenson: Then I just took a metal rod and bent it, stuck it up in there, and put it on a handle. And that was out of the silicone, and I made it out of my finger. And then it worked good, but it was silicone, so it would wear faster.
Noah McNeely: Sure.
Steven Julian: So the slogan is, why wear out your finger? Just use mine. Now the story explains why it’s molded based on your finger. Yes, sir. I love on the product, it says, designed and tested by professional painters, the caulking finger spares your fingertips and delivers a paint-perfect finish every time. Flexible fingertip won’t scratch or damage surfaces. And it’s incredibly durable. It’s a little bit longer than a finger because the handle. allows you to grip it and use it. Let me just ask real quick. Obviously, the main thing is caulk and painters are the ones who tested this. This is your background. Are there any other uses that you’ve kind of found while, because we’re going to stick with painting. That’s the main audience. But are there other things that, you know.
Daniel Stephenson: We’ve had people send in stuff. I got a lady that sent in. She does crafting where she used hot glue. Instead of bending her, burning her finger, she uses it. Oh, that’s brilliant. And then I’ve got another lady that made a video. She has a pottery school and supposedly there’s a tool called a thumb that you smooth pottery on the inside. She bought one and loves that it worked better than her own thumb. People say it’s as big as a thumb, but I guess I got big fingers. It’s the same exact size as my finger. It’s bigger than my finger.
Steven Julian: Actually, now I’m looking at it. It’s not that much bigger than my finger. So I got big fingers, too. All right. Do you have problems texting and do the fat finger thing? Yeah.
Daniel Stephenson: I’d rather call somebody.
Steven Julian: Daniel and I will have that conversation off air where our fat fingers cause problems. But thankfully, his fat finger has created the caulking finger. And so I was also. I was also thinking of other. So here’s a good one. Kids that are playing football. I always hated when I was a kid to be the one who had to put my finger on top of the football when the guy’s about to kick off because inevitably they’re not trained kickers and you get your finger kicked. I’m thinking this would be great to hold out and hold up a football.
Daniel Stephenson: We’ve actually had people use them when the pandemic, they used them for mashing elevator buttons.
Noah McNeely: That’s fantastic.
Steven Julian: That’s brilliant. All right. So, Daniel, I’m going to ask you other questions, but it is time, and Noah already asked one question, but it’s time for me, Noah, to ask you. You are someone, this is your, this is…
Noah McNeely: Is this a punishment question?
Steven Julian: No, not a, goodness gracious.
Noah McNeely: I’m a little grumpy.
Steven Julian: You said froggy, apparently you’re grumpy too.
Noah McNeely: I’m under the weather and grumpy, so I’m going to take it out.
Steven Julian: Okay. All right. That’s what I’m here to do. Apparently, Jody never gets yelled at.
Noah McNeely: Go ahead and ask your question.
Steven Julian: Okay. So you help people bring their products to market. Yes. So if Daniel had brought this to you two years, that sounds pretty–he didn’t dawdle. He got things done. He kept moving forward in the process, didn’t he?
Noah McNeely: Yeah, I think so. I think that’s a legitimate timeline to do this. It doesn’t sound like there were any needless delays there. Well, first of all, you worked on this yourself some before you went and hired somebody to help you with it.
Daniel Stephenson: Yes, I’ve actually, I worked on it myself and I went and I think y’all had him on here, White Light. I had met with him.
Noah McNeely: Willis is a good friend of mine.
Daniel Stephenson: I had met with him and we had discussed it and then I had an investor come in. Yeah. And he said, let’s just do it on our own.
Noah McNeely: Okay.
Steven Julian: So, Noah, you know, Daniel is almost like he was a listener of the show before he was a listener of the show. I mean, he did some of the right steps. there, right?
Noah McNeely: Absolutely. So, one big step you did was you didn’t use all your own money. You used somebody else’s money, which is real important. Smart. You know, a lot of inventors run into that as a roadblock. They will spend 10 years doing what you did in two because they’re like, I’m just going to do it all myself. I don’t want to give up 1% of this thing, you know? But I think you had a smarter route.
Daniel Stephenson: Me being a painter, I actually met my investor by doing a job for him.
Steven Julian: I love it. I love it.
Daniel Stephenson: And along the way, he—Were you using your—? No, it wasn’t even—it was just a—I mean, it was a bad—it was just a prototype.
Steven Julian: Right, but you had something.
Daniel Stephenson: I had something, and he was like, ooh, look at that. And he liked it.
Steven Julian: Yeah, I like that. So I would imagine, Noah, too, a product like this, it’s kind of ubiquitous. It’s not—We’ve had conversations of all these moving parts and should we use this or that? It’s a pretty basic design. A consumer like me looks at it and goes, oh, this was easy. to make. Of course, there’s nothing that’s easy to make, but this seems like a pretty straightforward process.
Noah McNeely: Yes and no. I think probably if you ran into a challenge, it was probably the material of the finger itself. That would be. my guess is that’s not. A mainstream material.
Steven Julian: We should have turned this into a game show. Try to stump Noah.
Noah McNeely: Some sort of elastomeric or material there. And maybe, does your molder make both of these parts?
Daniel Stephenson: Yes, sir.
Noah McNeely: Okay, so they’re sophisticated enough to know how to do both hard plastic and this. It comes off. If I had to guess, that’s the challenge.
Steven Julian: The finger comes off?
Daniel Stephenson: Yes.
Noah McNeely: That’s the challenge you ran into, would be my guess, is figuring out exactly how to make the finger part.
Daniel Stephenson: Not for me, but for them. Yeah, right.
Noah McNeely: Well, yeah.
Daniel Stephenson: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Noah McNeely: That was the general you.
Steven Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Team you.
Daniel Stephenson: That’s where the people like you come in, the know what to do, how to do the.
Steven Julian: Ladies and gentlemen, it is at this point in the program that I remind our audience, we did not pre-screen Daniel to say something like. that. But it is so good to talk to someone who’s brought something to market and has gone through all the steps that you on this show have said. Please use a professional like me or White Light or the other people we’ve brought in. I mean, fantastic.
Noah McNeely: I knew I liked Daniel at the beginning because he brought me a T-shirt.
Steven Julian: That’s true. That’s true.
Daniel Stephenson: By the way, you can buy them on our website.
Steven Julian: There you go.
Daniel Stephenson: See, Daniel. Thecaulkingfinger.com. Thecaulkingfinger.
Steven Julian: By the way, C-A-U-L-K-I-N-G. Let’s not have anybody have any misspelling mishaps. On online. So thecaulkingfinger.com. I wanted to ask you a very strong green and yellow color. Was that your decision? Was that someone else’s, the investor, marketing?
Daniel Stephenson: I’ll tell you why I done the bright color. Yeah. I’m a painter. You drop something, it gets lost. I wanted something that was flashy. So if a painter’s on the job, drops it. I like that. You can look down and pick it up.
Noah McNeely: If somebody’s painting their living room this color green, they’ve got other problems.
Daniel Stephenson: I’ve done it.
Noah McNeely: I’m sure you have. There’s people that will, we, my wife, and she’ll kill me, but my. wife once convinced me we were going to paint a bathroom purple and it was the most god-awful purple.
Steven Julian: My wife and I were having a, did she like it?
Noah McNeely: For a month, then we painted over it.
Steven Julian: My wife and I had a conversation last night about the color she picked, and she was like, remember that purple? And I was like, no, apparently I’ve blocked it out of my memory. It was a lavender or something.
Noah McNeely: The color of like a grape Fanta can?
Steven Julian: Yeah. Oh, man, that’s okay. Took three coats, I bet. Anyway, I don’t want to get into painting.
Noah McNeely: To cover it? Yeah, it took three to cover it.
Steven Julian: Why does the finger come off? Is this, this is replaceable?
Daniel Stephenson: We haven’t got, they are replaceable, but we haven’t got the packaging to sell.
Steven Julian: Okay, but you’re thinking ahead.
Daniel Stephenson: Thinking ahead and maybe, you know, coming out with a smaller one.
Steven Julian: Okay.
Daniel Stephenson: That would fit on the same handle and having, because like you said, this is a problem is one skew.
Steven Julian: Right, right, right, right.
Daniel Stephenson: If we can get more skews.
Steven Julian: So apparently Daniel Stevenson of the Caulking Finger is looking for hand models, specifically smaller fingers that don’t mind sticking their fingers into some kind of goo and then creating a prototype.
Noah McNeely: You know, we should talk about that one skew issue because that was sort of our pre-show banter earlier that we were talking about. Yes.
Steven Julian: So this is the one product you made. Yes, sir. And you were telling me this at the home show. We were having a good conversation and there’s been a little bit of a challenge with that. Talk about that as a business owner trying to get your business or product on the market.
Daniel Stephenson: It seems as your bigger companies like to have more products. And from what I’ve understood, it’s down to the shipping. Shipping costs so much. They want to get as much product for you to have on their shelf.
Steven Julian: They find it hard to do a deal with a company that only has one SKU.
Daniel Stephenson: Yes, because of shipping. You know, shipping’s expensive. Yeah. And it kind of gets into your price. Your leverage of getting it on the shelf. Yeah. But we kind of got past that a little bit.
Steven Julian: Can you explain to this point how you’ve been able to? kind of get some share?
Daniel Stephenson: Well, we just can’t, we don’t make as much as we could, I guess you’d say. Okay.
Steven Julian: You were willing to meet them halfway, swallow some of that shipping cost to get your product out on the market.
Daniel Stephenson: And we sell them to our stores by the dozen. Okay. Where a lot of… A lot of the big people, big stores I take, want six for their inventories. And we’ve been able to eat some of the cost of shipping by shipping 12 instead of shipping six, if that makes sense.
Steven Julian: Noah, you’ve worked with people on single skew. Talk a little bit about what you’ve learned over the years.
Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge. Now, it does depend on the industry and depends on how you sell it. I mean, there’s some companies that just sell exclusively online and there’s not as big of a problem, though it does become a problem over time because eventually you’re going to have competition. And if competition comes out with one product, then another product, then another product, then you get kind of left behind there. But you’re absolutely right. Where I’ve seen the problem is exactly. where you’ve seen it, and that’s with the larger… You know, they have a system and it’s the shipping is certainly one part of it. It’s also like you go into a Home Depot and you see a display with, you know, for some brand that’s got eight, nine, 10 items in your little product. Now that’s, you know, it’s small just by the nature of what it is, not small in terms of value, but it’s over there by itself and it kind of gets lost in all that. And I think that a lot of times what they, the planogram people, they’re the people that lay out where things are sold in the store. They really hate single-skew items because they’re like, where am I going to put this thing? And our friend Tiffany got kind of burned by that way, way back. And I think her first product ended up on like a top shelf where nobody could reach it at CVS.
Steven Julian: Or in different sections. So yeah, go back and listen to the archives from years ago when she talked about Ava the Elephant and being a single-skew producer.
Noah McNeely: And if she had been able to. go in, not that first-time inventors are not going to be able to do this, but if she had been able to go in with three or four products, she would have had a much more prominent space because it’s more It solves a problem for the planogram versus like, rather than where am I going to stuff this little thing, it’s this can help me fill this little space I need to fill.
Steven Julian: Yeah.
Noah McNeely: Which is different.
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Steven Julian: We’re speaking with Daniel Stevenson. He is the inventor of the caulking finger. We’re going to talk about the stores that they are in at the end of the show. You can also go to the caulking finger and get t-shirts. Daniel, I’ve decided. At this point, I’ve decided. my role in this show, apart from leading the conversation, is to help you come. up with other more obscure uses for the caulking finger. So I already did kids playing football who don’t want to get their fingers kicked. A new one I just came up with is this would be great for teachers. There’s a lot of… Public and private school teachers, various grades. I’m thinking mostly middle school, but honestly, it could be high school as well. So a teacher never wants to go before the principal and told, hey, I heard you said some things to a student and you like got up and, you know, got in their face and even poked a finger in their chest. No, no, I didn’t do that. So the caulking finger can be a teacher poking finger. You know, hey, get back in line, you know.
Daniel Stephenson: Funny you should say that about a teacher. We had a teacher send us an email. She deals with children that have sensory touching. Yeah. So we sent her some and we had never heard anything back to see how it worked for the kids.
Steven Julian: Oh, man. So I took it as a joke, but a real thing. A teacher could use it. But you know what? As. the father of a special needs child who dealt with sensory processing issues. Yeah, that would be huge. It’s sensitive to touch. I wonder, yeah, that would be, or being able to practice social skills, certain things. I don’t know. That might be some use. Talk, let’s go back to your development of it. So go through that two-year process a little bit. We don’t need to cover every single step, but I do want to, you kind of talked about the first prototype. So talk from that first prototype. Was there anything? as you talked to other painters, as you used it yourself, were there any tweaks that needed to be made? Were there any things like, well, I thought this would work, but then when I did this, oh, you know, this worked so much better. Or was it like, Because again, it seems like a simple product and it solves a very important need. But I’m just wondering, was there anything that you were like, ooh, I thought, okay, I need to do this. What was the feedback you got other than, this is great.
Daniel Stephenson: To be honest, really nothing. Okay. It’s real simple. The idea, what. do people use to smooth their caulk with? They use their finger. Yeah. We call it in the, you’ll see people with their fingers, but you can see the scars on my fingers. I know the audience can’t, but when you rub, it’ll just wear the skin off.
Steven Julian: Okay.
Daniel Stephenson: And you get raw, just bloody fingers.
Steven Julian: Because you’re doing it 10 hours a day, you know, week in, week out, 30 years.
Daniel Stephenson: So we made it and it just seemed to fall right in. You can turn it. I have people say, you know, it’s, I have some people. They say, well, it won’t work. I just have to explain to them, turn it like you would your fangle. Some people, and I don’t mean to say this, I don’t know how to even say it, but some people don’t use common sense. Right, right. And they think since it’s a product, it’s going to do it for you. You’ve still got.
Steven Julian: You got to put some pressure on it.
Daniel Stephenson: You got to put some pressure. You’ve got to turn it to make it get in certain spots. But, I mean, there’s nothing.
Steven Julian: So, Noah, this is where if people. have listened to our show for a long time, you’ve had conversations about it’s a minimum viable product, you know, so people going, people not using common sense. Well, where’s the pneumatic, you know, pressure hinge that causes it to push itself, you know?
Noah McNeely: Or the inventor that gets that one email about why isn’t this automatic? This like comes to me in a panic. We’ve got to make this a pressure pneumatic thing. And I was like. Okay. Do you want it to cost $800? Right. Do you want it to cost $4? Right. And that usually solves that problem, but not always. Sometimes it’s…
Daniel Stephenson: I have people call me all the time and I just explain to them, you know, they say it won’t fit in a certain spot. I say, take it like you’re going to poke somebody because the point of it’s a little thinner. And it’s flexible. It’s flexible. So you can manipulate it to work.
Steven Julian: Because that’s what you’ve done for decades with your own finger.
Daniel Stephenson: Exactly. Once I explain it to them, I say, oh, okay.
Noah McNeely: So some people, I mean, you’ll get like 300 good reviews and then that one person’s like, oh, it should be battery powered.
Steven Julian: Why?
Noah McNeely: Well, we got to make it battery powered because one person said something on Amazon.
Steven Julian: How hard has anyone hit someone else with this caulking finger?
Daniel Stephenson: That’s something I couldn’t tell you.
Steven Julian: Yeah. Okay. All right. Sounds like something because I was sitting here thinking. So back in, I worked with teenagers for years and one of the favorite games, we called it stress relief. We used pool noodles. Half the people would get pool noodles and I go for 30 seconds, you can hit anybody without a pool noodle, just nothing in the face, nothing in the crotch because they sound like they hurt, but they really don’t. And then go, but the rule is when I blow the whistle, you got to drop and the people who didn’t have a pool noodle can now pick up a pool noodle. And I’m just wondering, could the caulking finger be used for a little bit of stress relief? Maybe Noah will use that later on me. I don’t know. Anyway. All right. So you’ve developed the product from the very beginning, from the first prototype. Not too many major tweaks. I would imagine, you know, it was how hard of a plastic. I noticed the plastic is, it’s an empty cavity in the back. You know, that might be for weight or it’s good distribution.
Daniel Stephenson: Save money.
Steven Julian: Yeah. Okay, good.
Noah McNeely: You also couldn’t mold it if you didn’t make it. Holly liked that. Well, you could, but it’d be a different process. It’d be real expensive.
Steven Julian: More expensive. Save money. Okay. There you go. See, I learned something today.
Noah McNeely: Sorry. The nerd engineer came out for a minute.
Steven Julian: Why are you sorry? That’s the whole point of the show. At least you didn’t do Secret of Nim.
Daniel Stephenson: When you pull the finger off, we’ve got two cavities. One saves the amount of material that goes into the inside there.
Steven Julian: Sorry, I was distracted. 21 minutes, 40 seconds in, I got my name reference.
Noah McNeely: There’s a reason he’s pointing out that is important. The reason the finger itself has a hollow section in the area where it’s not being used as a finger, that is the same material. Because this is a relatively expensive material, this flexible stuff, this stuff is pennies per pound. This stuff here, much more expensive.
Steven Julian: As he says this stuff, he’s holding up the finger.
Noah McNeely: The bright green plastic. Very inexpensive. Well, they can’t see what color it is.
Steven Julian: I thought I gave a good explanation, but apparently not.
Noah McNeely: Bright green plastic, very inexpensive. High-tech, modern, finger material simulation, very expensive.
Steven Julian: Proprietary finger. Yes. You have a proprietary finger.
Daniel Stephenson: I like that.
Steven Julian: So, Daniel, talk about the start of the process of getting into those first stores, getting the, you know, I would imagine being from the painting industry with all your friends and family or all your buddies that you know, hey, man, you got to check out this product. I just made it. But start, how did you, and we met at a home show. That’s smart, you know, got a table at a home show, a lot of other builders and things like that. So that’s the right crowd. What’s been the other process of kind of getting this on store shelves?
Daniel Stephenson: Well, as you said, I was a painter for so long. I had a store manager at a Sherwin-Williams that I shopped at, and he liked the idea. And he inquired to Sherwin-Williams, and they had to go through a long process of the. higher-ups going through, being checked over by several buyers, and then I got into that stores.
Noah McNeely: They wanted to make sure that your product wasn’t going to kill anybody before they put it in the store.
Daniel Stephenson: Yes.
Noah McNeely: It would be very difficult to kill somebody with this product.
Steven Julian: Now you got me thinking. Uh-oh, now. You can kill somebody with anything.
Daniel Stephenson: Let’s not put nothing in nobody’s head. I got a stipulation on the back. You know, I got a warning.
Noah McNeely: You launch it fast enough and hard enough, you know, I don’t care what it is.
Steven Julian: Yeah, don’t try to clean your ears out with this finger. Exactly. When you feel pressure, stop.
Noah McNeely: Maybe clean your horse’s ears out.
Steven Julian: Well, that’s true. So the other, and so Sherwin-Williams was kind of the first one. And I love that. you had an advocate. You had somebody local. You had a connection. You had a relationship. Let’s go ahead and say, what other stores currently, as we’re recording this in early 2025, that the Caulking Finger is a part of?
Daniel Stephenson: We’ve got them in several, I call them independent paint stores. I can’t name all of them. Benjamin Moore stores, independent. We got them in Ace Hardware. Not all of them.
Steven Julian: Some of the independently owned.
Daniel Stephenson: Well, they’re all independently owned. It’s just we’ve got in some of them. Select. We’ve got them in. They’re on Lowe’s.com. Okay. They are selling on Amazon. Okay. And we sell them on thecaulkingfinger.com, our website. Independent hardware stores.
Steven Julian: Yeah. So as someone who has done some painting but is not a painter by trade, my recollection of going up and down the painting aisle, other than the paint and the brushes, and tape, there’s not a ton of painting accessories. Is that a fair statement?
Daniel Stephenson: There’s a lot of them. Okay.
Steven Julian: So I’m wrong. Please feel free to tell me.
Daniel Stephenson: There’s a section that most people don’t go look for unless you’re going for a specific reason. You’ve got a spot over there where they’ve got roller handles, little tools for scraping and stuff like that. They’re called sundries. Paint sundry.
Steven Julian: I learned another term today.
Daniel Stephenson: We send out clip strips with these. So they can hang them right where they sell their caulking. Yes. So when you’re there looking at caulking, and that’s where we like to put them, right there where the. caulk’s at. Yeah. And a lot of people put them right there on the gondola shelf, right at the checkout, kind of a point of view. Point of sale. Point of sale, right there.
Noah McNeely: So it’s an impulse buy.
Steven Julian: Impulse buy.
Daniel Stephenson: Yeah, they say, but dang.
Steven Julian: And you know what the impulse is? Oh, that would save my finger.
Daniel Stephenson: Exactly. Why? Don’t wear your finger out. Why wear your finger out? Just use mine.
Steven Julian: I like that.
Noah McNeely: And it’s the kind of thing that, you know, as a homeowner, you’re painting two or three rooms. You buy it just for that. You know, you’re not. Well, you know, a lot of ladies. Then you buy another one next time.
Daniel Stephenson: A lot of ladies use it. They don’t want to get their fingernails messed up. Sure.
Noah McNeely: Preach.
Daniel Stephenson: They pay a lot. I know my wife pays a lot of money to have manicures.
Steven Julian: All right. So, Daniel, I’ve got to ask one other question that has been burning on the minds of. A few listeners and the slightly annoying co-host, are you from the south side of Boston or the north side of Boston with that accent?
Daniel Stephenson: The very north side.
Steven Julian: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Because as you said, the caulking finger, your accent is perfect for your company because of the way you say it. I can’t say it like that.
Daniel Stephenson: I’m Georgia born and bred. Really?
Steven Julian: It was surprising. Whereabouts in Georgia are you from?
Daniel Stephenson: Conyers, Georgia. Oh, yeah, yeah. Rockdale. Absolutely. Live in Monticello, Georgia now. Oh.
Noah McNeely: Well, that’s not too far from where I grew up. Yeah. We’re probably related if we go back far enough.
Steven Julian: Well, we all are.
Noah McNeely: Yeah, that’s right. Probably not as far back.
Steven Julian: If you don’t mind me asking, what got you in the painting business? Was it a paycheck to start? Like, hey, I found I’m good at it?
Daniel Stephenson: Father-in-law.
Steven Julian: Okay. Yeah.
Daniel Stephenson: At the time, yeah.
Steven Julian: And you’ve done residential. You also do a lot of commercial.
Daniel Stephenson: I’ve done residential. I’ve done commercial. I’ve done industrial.
Steven Julian: And you’re still doing that? Yes, sir.
Daniel Stephenson: I’m still painting.
Steven Julian: So you have your own painting company? Yes, sir. You’ve also developed this? Mm-hmm. I’m going to be–first of all, I’m going to become–Mark it as a favorite, thecaulkingfinger.com. I may try an outside job to try and become your. t-shirt designer, but that’s a conversation off air. I believe Noah has a question or a comment.
Noah McNeely: Actually, I want to go a little bit deeper on a question that you asked.
Steven Julian: That’s why you’re here.
Noah McNeely: So when you’re getting into stores, now I think thi
Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?
Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.
Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.
Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.
Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.
Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.
Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.
Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.
Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely:
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