Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Got wood? Well, it’s actually molded fiber products. on Product Genius today, and you’ll find out what do birdhouses, drones, lobster rolls, Easter eggs, and Frank’s lawsuit all have in common. Hey, and if you stick around to the end, there’s even a surprise delivery, but sadly not from Mr. McFeely. Next on Product Genius.

Charlie Langston: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur?

Noah McNeely: Struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Charlie Langston: Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide.

Steven Julian: With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Yes! Happy New Year, everybody. Welcome to another, hopefully… Award-winning edition sometime soon of Product Genius. It’s your slightly annoying co-host. Well, probably a little more than slightly annoying with that long intro, but I hit such a good note, and it just resonated, and I wanted to just keep going. And Jody has my headphones turned down a little bit, so I don’t know. if it was too loud, but I’m just kidding, Jody. You don’t have to adjust. Hey, there I am.

Noah McNeely: Hey, I exist. See, I was afraid you were going to just say good morning to Vietnam there as you were getting halfway through it.

Steven Julian: But I was yes. I didn’t say good. I said yes.

Noah McNeely: Okay. It’s not a perfect analogy.

Steven Julian: It is. But it’s a good one. It’s a good one. I’ll take it. Hey, Noah.

Noah McNeely: Happy New Year.

Steven Julian: We’re in it now. So I just totally butchered the opening. You jumped in to save me. And we’re in the deep end of the pool. It’s Noah McNeely. He is the leader of… Product Quick Start and the genius behind Product Genius. I am, of course, I’m your slightly annoying co-host Steven Julian. And we are kicking off yet another year. I don’t even know what year it is because we have so much fun. It just all runs together. And we got a great show that we’re going to talk about. And Jody, by the way, make a note, this needs to be the first one of the 2025 because I did start it off with Happy New. Year. So we don’t want to do that one like fourth in the rotation or anything like that.

Noah McNeely: Hey, it’s May. Why are they just posting?

Steven Julian: That’s a weird intro. So yeah, we got a great guest today. So why don’t we just get right to it, Noah?

Noah McNeely: Sounds like a winner to me. All right.

Steven Julian: We are thrilled and excited to welcome Charlie Langston. He is the Director of Sales and Marketing with Tanbark Molded Fiber Products. Sorry for messing up the name. Charlie Langston, welcome into the show.

Charlie Langston: Thank you. Great to be here. Yeah.

Steven Julian: So Tanbark, tell us about Tanbark and what you guys do.

Charlie Langston: Tanbark is innovating in an ancient technology. Essentially, we’re taking paper making and turning it into 3D shapes, but we’re making it accessible to smaller volume producers. This process was actually invented in Maine, which is where I’m talking from, was really set up about a century ago. For mass production of parts, right? And it evolved along those lines from very high volume production of things like paper plates or egg cartons. And all the equipment was set up for that kind of production. And it’s very good at high scale. Tanbark started because a husband and wife team, they had a company. That they had inherited from the family business that made the equipment to make molded fiber products, those egg cartons, for example. And they kept getting inquiries about, could you make a smaller piece of equipment? Something that I could use in my operation where I only need half a million parts a year or three million parts a year. And so they did two things. One, they… Designed smaller equipment. And the second was they launched tan bark molded fiber products. And our mission is to make molded fiber, sustainable molded fiber products accessible to smaller volume users.

Steven Julian: So that fantastic introduction. And what I want to do is as someone who’s not in that industry and also being in a medium where people can’t see it, when you said egg carton and paper plates. I began to get it. Okay, I think I see it. Can you give another example of something we see in our life that is a molded fiber product that Tanbark would be able to do? And maybe something halfway between what a paper plate and an egg carton, because obviously those. are massively produced. And maybe it’s an example of something you’ve been able to do in a smaller run, something you’ve been able to do for a company that’s a smaller and something that everybody will get that picture immediately and kind of know, okay. Because the other thing I was thinking is the weight and the texture and the feel of a paper plate to an egg carton, while they’re made the same thing, that’s a broad spectrum in what you guys do. One is very… Not the ones you make, but one is very thin and light. Give me another example and especially something that you’ve been able to do on a small run that a business owner goes, ah, finally, we’ve arrived.

Charlie Langston: Sure. Well, I wonder if I could. Essentially, I’ll go a little bit more into what molded fiber kind of is. Essentially, what we do, it’s on the same kind of level as thermoformed plastic. You know, we can form complex 3D shapes with paper. The applications are kind of, you know, endless. What we’ve done so far, we make clamshells, like takeout clamshells for a high-end lobster roll place. And our clamshells that we. make for him, you know, if you bought lobster rolls, it comes in a little, you know, what used to be foam. And now sometimes this plastic, we can make it out of paper and then it becomes compostable and recyclable. So like a takeout clamshell, we’ve made little, you know, kind of boats that go in those clamshells. So this one particular customer I’m talking about is, it’s called Luke’s Lobster. And he has a trio thing that he offers where you can have a… A lobster roll, a shrimp roll, and a crab roll. And each one comes in its own cute little molded fiber paper boat that sits inside this custom clamshell. And they have little sheet molded onto them, denesting kind of features, things like that. But it provides this high-end experience for his customers who are buying a very high-end product. Apologize for bringing that up right around lunchtime until they make you guys hungry.

Steven Julian: Well, don’t apologize for bringing up lobster rolls. And Noah, obviously, you’re going to get back to Frank’s Cheesehammers because I know they’re looking for shipping products. Of course.

Noah McNeely: Well, once they get past that lawsuit, they’ll be doing it.

Steven Julian: Absolutely.

Noah McNeely: That’s a joke, Charlie. It’s an inside joke. You have to listen to several episodes to get it. So, Charlie, you were introduced to me. By an old friend of mine, Sam. And he’s like, hey, he does this molded paper stuff. And I was like, yeah, I’ve been familiar with molded paper for 25 years. And I was like, okay, it’s just another guy. He’s into packaging. He doesn’t know what I do. And Sam’s just, Sam probably talked to him and he’s like, all right, well, I want to get rid of this guy. So I’m going to send him to Noah. But when you and I actually talked. I realized, no, you know exactly what I do and you know exactly who I’m trying to do that for. And so I was really excited to have you on because, you know, we got into that conversation and, you know, three sentences in or four sentences in, you hit the main thing that interests me. And that is we’re making this accessible for small companies, for people that are bootstrapping, for people that aren’t making 300 million packaging pieces every year. And the way we’re doing that. is we have these smaller machines. And so now we can do tooling. that’s very down closer to what you might pay for tooling for a thermoform or some other type of maybe more traditional methodology that is very accessible to the budgets of many of our listeners who are, again, inventors, entrepreneurs, they’re startups, they’re just getting their business started. And so at that point, I got very excited about talking to you and very excited about having you come on the show so that we could introduce this to some of our listeners.

Charlie Langston: I have a great example of that. that was kind of back to Steven’s question, which was, if you wouldn’t mind, I’d tell about a customer of ours that he… Essentially, he’s trying to make eco-friendly garden products in a pod-based system. He really wanted to use wood as a manufacturing medium, and he just couldn’t figure out how to make the economics work. So he said, okay, fine, I’ll use 100% recycled plastic. But one of the things he made was a birdhouse, and they decided they didn’t want to have the birds build their nests in just a bare plastic. Container because that. just didn’t feel natural to them. So their thought process went, well, birds live in trees. Trees are made out of wood. This should be some kind of wood-based thing. And then they bought some eggs at the grocery store and were looking at the egg cart and said, hey, why don’t we make it out of this? So we make a liner for this guy’s nesting pod. And a molded fiber liner gets spit into this nesting pod. It has little cleats molded into it to make it easy for the birds to climb in and out. It’s got his brand, of course, molded right in there. And at the end of the nesting season, the user of this can take the whole thing out, put it in the compost, and put a new one in. That guy, he tried talking to some other molded fiber producers before us. And they laughed at him because of his volumes, right? I mean, now we’re doing 7,000, you know, this is a new company. So, you know, it starts out kind of small, but we believe this guy will grow. And still, even at those numbers, you know, 7,000 kind of. ordered quantity, it makes economic sense for him and for us.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, this is, I think, the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone. Looking at the economics of this process in a very different way, and I think, I don’t know what was in their minds, but I think when he went and talked to these other molded fiber companies, they were like, you know, this is going to be, you got to make a bunch of these because the price has to be 12 cents a piece or three cents a piece. But that really wasn’t what this client needed because this is not a throwaway. Piece of packaging. This is a semi-durable good. Like you said, it’s going to last an entire year. So there is room there. Yeah, if you make 7,000 of these, they’re not going to be 12 cents a piece. They’re going to be a couple of dollars, $3, whatever it is. But economically, that works perfectly for his business. in a way I think traditional molded fiber companies really couldn’t wrap their head around. And that was one of the things. I was really excited when you told me a version of. this story on our original call. But it seems like what you guys have done is turned the economics upside down for a whole different type of client.

Charlie Langston: Sure. And it’s not because the other producers just only think it can be done at 12 cents. Their whole system only makes sense at that kind of level because their tool sets are half a million dollars. It takes them a week to set up their machine. So they do it. They set it up. Then they run it 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 10 years in a row.

Noah McNeely: So your bird nest guy, he’d have to be in business 30 years before he paid off that tooling, right? Exactly.

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Steven Julian: We’re speaking with Charlie Langston. He’s the Director of Sales and Marketing with Tanbark Molded Fiber Products. And Charlie, I wanted to reference a couple of things right on the front of your website, which we’ll give at the end if people haven’t already Googled as they’re listening to this podcast. And you mentioned it. You come out of Maine and you said a word early on about sustainability on your website. It talks about circular sustainability. So these are. These products are made out of one of the legacy industries in Maine of logging and forestry. So talk a little bit, without getting too lost in the weeds, haha, environmental joke, but without getting too lost in that, talk a little bit about the sustainability and exactly where this product comes from and why it’s compostable.

Charlie Langston: Sure. As it happens, I’m also on the board of a timber company, so I do understand the timber industry fairly well. First, there’s no better carbon capture machine than the sustainably managed forest. It’s the most efficient way of keeping carbon in a productive cycle rather than escaping into our atmosphere. Harvesting trees, most people understand that. typical use is for lumber, right? Two by fours, or if you’re hardwood, it’s the stuff that gets made into cabinets. But in order. to do that, you end up, for practical reasons, you end up also getting trees that are a little bit too small or the tops of the trees are a little bit too small to be turned into those types of products. And that is the residuals. Which in the forestry industry is called pulpwood because the vast majority of it historically has been used for creating pulp, creating paper. The challenge in the forestry industry and with sustainable forestry is that market has been waning as we use less paper in our daily lives. The good news is this is an excellent application for it. So what we’re making is made out of that same material that is paper.

Noah McNeely: So as opposed to that kind of being wasted or just economically making the whole forestry industry less attractive, now you guys, it’s like you’ve found a way to open a new market for this material that was sort of becoming less and less desirable, it sounds like.

Charlie Langston: Sure, absolutely. I mean, if you’re trying to practice forestry and you don’t have a pulp market, then you’re not going to practice sustainable forestry. They do it in other countries where. you’re just farming trees and you don’t… Part of sustainable forestry is providing the environment of the forest for all the other beneficial uses, recreation and the animals and birds and bees, etc. And the forest would look very different if people were just growing it specifically for lumber. But the interesting thing about this, right, it’s, you know, of course, what we make comes because it’s all natural from trees is compostable. It’s recyclable. In fact, paper, especially corrugated, is the most recycled product there is. Your listeners may have understood, as many of us have now, that plastic recycling has been a great hope that just has never delivered. And unfortunately, most plastic does not get recyclables.

Noah McNeely: It’s a greenwash illusion that makes you feel better when you take your bottles to the curb. And that’s the biggest benefit it has, frankly.

Steven Julian: And that is a topic for another show. So let me circle back and ask a quick question. You know, I think one of the things, Charlie, you kind of talked about is you guys are innovating in this ancient technology and talking about what you guys use and how you do it shows just how. long it’s been around. Here’s my question. This is such a relatively new thing, and I loved your story of… A husband and wife trying to do a birdcage or a bird feeder and we need to, oh, hey, let’s use the egg carton and insert. That could be something. Let’s try and figure out how to do that. So apart from the people who think, you know, it would be great at blank, you know, dot, dot, dot. So how are you guys trying to find the next clients? That don’t think, you know what would be great? So what are some of the applications that are not being used now? Let me get out of your way and let you talk to a room full of entrepreneurs and inventors who might not have thought that they would need something that’s a molded fiber product. What are some of the uses you’re excited about kind of finding the next client to do?

Charlie Langston: The one I’d really love to see. It is drones because we can certainly mold very complicated shapes. And I just came back from the Consumer Electronics Expo where I saw a company that was making paper. batteries, compostable batteries. So I figure, okay, if we can, the power source can become compostable. The whole thing can be. Okay.

Noah McNeely: That’s the coolest thing I’ve heard. I love it. At least.

Steven Julian: Yeah. We’re on compostable drones. I like that.

Charlie Langston: One of the, one of the. The great things about this material is, you know, recycling is a great thing if you get it in the recycling bin. But if you don’t, and quite a lot of, you know, single-use items, about 30% of single-use items just become litter. If our product becomes litter, it’s like a leaf becoming litter. It just goes away and turns into dirt. So that’s a great application. I mean, you know, hopefully drones don’t get lost, but if you wanted to have some drones where you’d… You know, low cost and didn’t matter if they got lost.

Noah McNeely: Well, right. Maybe a totally different market for drones. A drone that you plan to get lost, it’s a single-use drone that’s not going to wreck the environment. I’m sure there’s applications for that no one’s ever thought about because they think of a drone as a durable good that has to be recovered.

Steven Julian: Well, apparently. Charlie has recovered.

Noah McNeely: Well, other than Charlie, yes.

Steven Julian: And now our listeners have heard about it. All right.

Noah McNeely: So if you’re an inventor out there desperate to invent something, you don’t have your idea yet.

Steven Julian: There you go.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, call Charlie.

Steven Julian: Yeah, that’s right. So that’s the kind of top of mind. I dare ask the question, do you have about two or three more that you’re like, yeah, okay, not as cool as drones, but here’s a couple others I’ve thought about.

Charlie Langston: You know, the medical market is one that has approached us numerous times. And certainly for PAC and medical, you know, now that people are understanding that microplastics are a human health issue, it’s made it much more urgent. And people are starting to feel, you know, it’s much more personal when it’s like, wait, you’re saying my brain has, you know, a lot of microplastics in it? That’s way more personal than worrying about landfills or things off in the environment. There are tons of applications in packaging, but certainly applications where they’re single-use medical devices that are currently made out of thermoformed plastic bits. Handles for swabs. We had somebody, well, I can’t, anything that. is a single-use item in medical. I’d love to, you know, when they look in your ear with that otoscope and they put that little plastic protection, that should be molded fiber. I mean, I can’t believe it’s not.

Noah McNeely: You use that once and you throw it away.

Charlie Langston: Ah, there’s so much of that in the medical world.

Steven Julian: I was sitting here thinking of kids’ toys. There’s got to be some kids’ toys that your kids may use for, you know, under a year and for them to be totally compostable rather than plastic.

Noah McNeely: Under a day in some case.

Steven Julian: Or better yet, hold on, they play with the packaging anyway. So have Tanbark packaging and they’re playing with something that’s compostable. I’m sorry, I interrupted you, Charlie.

Charlie Langston: Yes. I’d love to find someone to make, you know, those plastic Easter eggs that come apart and put the candy inside. Those should be molded fiber.

Noah McNeely: I think another thing that popped into my mind, my daughter, my soon-to-be 17-year-old daughter, she’s huge in crafting. So she does all these little molded things and et cetera. And I would see this, especially in small Nephilim, making like… Stuff for the crafting. industry. Imagine a little mold made out of tan bark and you use it one time to cast your little resin or to cast concrete or something. And you can cast something much more complicated because of all the detail you guys can get. I know this is a very nerdy crafting kind of idea.

Steven Julian: Which is right down the row of our listeners. All right.

Noah McNeely: But the point is, is there’s so many niche industries out there that need small businesses that can do that. 7,000, 10,000 units a year and do very well with that, that I think this is something those industries have never thought about before, by and large.

Steven Julian: Absolutely. So we’ve got single-use drones. And then I liked, I was just sitting here thinking, I love the idea of the Easter eggs. So all natural, compostable, cage-free, yolk-free. Eggwhite-free Easter eggs to put your candy in. So I’m in. I like where we’re going. So, Charlie, I was going to ask this question as well. So let’s talk about packaging products for a second because you started with the shout-out to the–is it Lenny or Larry? Luke’s.

Charlie Langston: Luke’s Lobster.

Steven Julian: I apologize to Luke. Luke’s Lobster Rolls. So, yeah. So talk a little bit about packaging because I think that’s the–That’s the legacy use of molded fiber products. But apart from being able to really customize, and being compostable, are there other benefits to someone who’s already using packaging? And let’s be clear, if you just need packaging to just get it somewhere. If there’s a cost difference, I can get that. But talk a little bit to those people who are putting together packaging. We know Tiffany, and she posted on LinkedIn and all over the place about her going down packaging roads and things like that. When you’re an entrepreneur and you’ve got a product, packaging matters. So what do you want to say to those entrepreneurs and product people about why they should use you guys for their packaging?

Charlie Langston: So the first thing I would say is packaging is typically the first physical contact your customer has with your product, right? It’s pretty important, that first impression. And what’s driving packaging people to contact us is their customers absolutely hate plastic. They don’t want to be touching it. They feel guilty about throwing it away. So it’s really customer. preference. In fact, I’ve had even guys that use bio-based plastic say, you know, we can’t use that anymore because the customers just don’t believe it. So paper and, you know, this molded fiber, you know, that’s obviously paper. Consumers just feel that that’s better quality, right? But in terms of the other motivations, we often have people that are in different markets where they’re actively paying fines or facing regulations that restrict them from using plastic. I had an outfit on Nantucket recently that’s approached us. Apparently, I didn’t realize this, but three years ago, Nantucket passed a ban on single-use plastics. I have an email in my inbox about Belfast, Maine, planning to ban single-use plastics in their town. So there’s a lot of people that are kind of forced to do this by regulations. Luke’s is an interesting story. They really are doing it. They started because they thought it was a great support for their brand because it’s all seafood. They’re really focusing on the cleanliness of the ocean and the ocean environment. And so they made a point of being very eco-friendly all the way throughout their system. And like most companies, they said, as. much as we can. And so they have composting in their stores. One of the things they’ve realized is once you have a compost bin, the biggest problem is Keeping the plastic out of that compost bin, right? Because it’s just impossible to train all of your customers. They came to the conclusion, you know what? We’re just not going to hand the customers anything that can’t go into the compost bin. So they’re changing their operations and we’re actually redesigning one of the clamshells so that they don’t have to give out potato chip bags. They’ll just put scoops of potato chips in with the sandwiches because the bags were ending up in the compost. And that was costing them a lot of money because their compost guy said, either you fix this or I’m not going to take the compost anymore. And then they’re just taking their specially contained compost stuff and having to send it to a landfill. But for them, the interesting thing for them, the interesting nuance there was, They kind of welcomed that as the economic excuse to do what they always wanted to do, which was be 100% in.

Noah McNeely: Cool. So, Charlie, as. I think about this, there’s really kind of four, one we didn’t talk about, I’ll talk about briefly, but four elements of this that get me excited for our audience. It’s more accessible. You know, we talked about that. It’s much more accessible for small business now than it’s ever been before because of you guys. It’s healthier. We did talk about that, like the little example with the birds. You know, you don’t want little birds, baby birds, pecking at plastic, and you don’t know what that’s going to cause. You don’t want the microplastics in the environment. Sidebar, but I’m pretty sure there’s a class you take in journalism school about writing doomsday articles and microplastics is this year’s doomsday article, but that’s something else entirely. That’s a different show. So it’s good for the environment. The number four is you guys are based in Maine. This is a domestic production opportunity that sometimes it’s economically feasible to replace something that’s Is not always economically feasible to do in the United States. Now things, things change, markets change and et cetera, but you’re replacing low, in many cases, low cost molded plastic items, or you can with a. domestically produced item that has all these other benefits as well. So I love this. And Steven, I think you’re, you’re trying to jump in with something. Nope.

Steven Julian: Okay. I was waiting for you to ask a question.

Noah McNeely: Oh, you’re just making random movements. Oh, so that was the get to the point. Noah.

Steven Julian: Okay. All right. I’ll confess. I was looking up Luke’s Lobster online. And so I can’t wait to go see a Portland Seadogs game and enjoy Luke’s Lobster. I think the lobster grilled cheese is what I would choose from the menu. So Luke, if you can deliver that down to Georgia, great. If not, I’ll come see a Seadogs game and make sure and have lunch at Luke’s Lobster. Now go back to your point.

Noah McNeely: There was a rambling point, but okay, I do have a question. I’m going to come to my question, I promise. The question, and I think it’s a short question, but Charlie, you guys are kind of in the early stages of this. How are you guys expecting to grow outside of Maine? Is it too early to have those kind of plans? How many, I mean, it sounds like. you guys are actively looking for a bunch of customers to come in and start growing this, but. Can you guys scale as, as, you know, obviously all of our 50,000 listeners are going to be calling you tomorrow. So the exaggeration, slight exaggeration.

Steven Julian: Why is Jody laughing?

Noah McNeely: But, but what’s your scale up plan for this as it grows? And if you don’t have that yet, I understand. I don’t mean to put you on the, on the spot with that.

Charlie Langston: That’s fine. We are scaling. So we’re, we’re this in 2025. We’re going to triple our capacity with some new equipment coming in. We’re also adding further processing capabilities. So we plan on putting a labeling machine in too so we can apply paper labels to some of the attempts that we make. So they’ll still be compostable and recyclable. But in terms of big expansion plans and growth outside of Maine, we certainly do anticipate that. Some of the customers that we’re getting now, so one of the nice things that we have is this close connection to the manufacturer of the equipment. So we don’t build the machines, but our chief technical officer owns a company. that does. Whereas a lot of the people in molded fiber, you know, they know how to run the machine they have, but they’re not real innovative thinkers. So one of the customers that we have is, you know, it’s a U.S. brand, but they’ve expanded nationally. And they’re talking to us because they have some stores outside of the U.S. where they’re having fines because they’re… The packaging they’re using now is not compostable. They’re using paper cups with a plastic liner in it. That’s almost all the paper cup products you find actually have plastic in there. So they had tried to work with other molded fiber producers and basically because their volume wasn’t high enough. And because the technical things they were asking for were a little bit challenging, they got frustrated. One of the things that we’re doing for them is a cup. It’s like a pint-sized cup of molded fiber. That’s a hard thing to do in molded fiber, but we can do it. And partly because we’re a startup and we’re eager and we’re innovative. Got a little bit of time, we were able to come up with that solution. That customer, certainly once. we get to scale with them, if they produce all over the world, there’s likely a scenario in the future where we’re going to need to either build a plant somewhere closer to their production overseas or perhaps be… Putting machinery in a little sub-operation within their facility so they can use it.

Noah McNeely: Well, Charlie, it’s a great story. I think you did warn us you have a meeting that you have to get to, so we want to respect that. And Steven’s waving at me again, so go ahead. I’m not waving. Oh, you guys should see him. He’s waving all over the place.

Steven Julian: Frantically gesticulating. There’s the word of the day. Yeah, that was on my word of the day calendar. All right, Charlie, I think one of the things you’ve done in this interview, and hopefully we… Got out of your way or at least assisted a little bit is there’s an inventor out there who is now wildly frantically working on single-use drones made out of molded fiber products as well as, you know, maybe straws that are made out of, you know, and all-natural, cage-free, egg-white, yolk-free Easter eggs. You can have all that, you. know, you can have all those hashtags that I just gave to whoever that inventor is. But really what it is, is we’ve opened people’s eyes and their ears and there are a lot of opportunities for people to work with a great company of Tanbark and you guys helping people be more environmentally sustainable and also use their product, use your products, your type of products in limited runs as people might need or in massive runs and you can help them do that. How do people get in touch with you and with Tanbark? How do they start a relationship and get their products the way they want?

Charlie Langston: So you can find us on the interweb there at tanbarkmfp, which stands for moldedfiberproducts.com. So tanbarkmfp.com. My email is clangston at tanbarkmfp.com. Or they could just call my cell phone, which I’m happy to give you, 207-504-4959.

Steven Julian: Fantastic. Charlie Langston, Director of Sales and Marketing at Tanbark Molded Fiber Products. Find him at tanbarkmfp.com. Charlie, thanks for being on the show.

Charlie Langston: Thanks very much. I enjoyed it.

Noah McNeely: Thank you, Charlie.

Steven Julian: Absolutely. Noah, a great guest, as always. You find these fantastic people who do fantastic things, and we get. to stumble through trying to Keep up with them.

Noah McNeely: There was that one guy we don’t talk about, but other than that one guy, they’ve all been fantast

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: