Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Have you ever had an idea that you’re really excited about, but it’s such a big idea with so many bits and pieces that you don’t know where to start? Well, you came to the right place to get some solutions. next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Noah McNeely: My line, yes!

Steven Julian: Welcome to another hopefully award-winning edition of Product Genius. It is your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Why do you know I’m slightly annoying? That’s because I decided to hold that note until Noah himself actually looked up from his note-taking going, what are you doing?

Noah McNeely: I thought we were doing Good Morning Vietnam there for a second. Yes, absolutely.

Steven Julian: Great reference. Great reference. The show of… Pop cultural references that are. only for people close to our age or people who like to watch old movies. Seated to my right is the intrepid producer Jody Smith and he who has already entered the show because it is his show. He is the one who brings us all around the table and he talks about his genius. We bring our genius of production and slightly annoyingness and he also brings other geniuses to the table and he helps you bring your product to market. It is Noah McNeely of Product Quick Start.

Noah McNeely: Welcome, sir. Well, thank you. And no, no, my friend, this is our show. So if it goes poorly, I can blame you as well.

Steven Julian: Oh, when it goes poorly, if it ever has, I think it, I don’t know. Has there a show that’s gone poorly?

Noah McNeely: I’m not sure, but if there was, it was your fault.

Steven Julian: Yeah. And listen, I was just about to say, if a show does go poorly, there is without question. Only one culprit, and that is me. That’s what I do sitting in this chair. That’s why I’m the co-host. That’s why I’m slightly annoying. That’s part of my gimmick. That way, everything. can be heaped upon me so that you can stay the genius that you are and, more importantly, the leader of the show.

Noah McNeely: And to be clear, if you were having this discussion with me not here and you said it was all my fault. That’d be fine. I don’t care. Sure.

Steven Julian: Absolutely. I’ll do that. So apparently we’re doing a show with Noah, not here sometime in the future. Hey, welcome to the episode known as bring your project to podcast day. Noah’s got a project he’s working on. And out of that project, he had some thoughts. He had some ideas. We started a conversation and it’s leading to this episode. So I’m going to cut and then we’re going to get to a solution or we’re going to get to at least some things learned out of this project. Noah has brought to the podcast. Now, he can’t obviously share every single detail. He’s going to talk in generalities because of client confidence and because it’s not quite to market and all that kind of stuff. But Noah, let me get out of your way for just a second. And why don’t you talk in general terms? about the project that you’re currently working on now and why you brought it to the podcast?

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so I’m in the middle. It’s a huge, huge group project. There are a lot of different people involved. It is still, you know, it’s an inventor project still, but it’s one of these. that’s, you know, it’s got a lot of backing behind it because it is such a big project. And there’s probably about 10 or 12 people on the team, all with different areas of expertise. And it’s this big problem to solve. It’s got electronics. It’s got software, it deals with fluid flow, user interfaces. It’s got this whole deal around medical information and all these different things. And it’s such a big problem to solve with so many nuances that, frankly, even this team of senior experts and senior, very experienced people, we had trouble. Getting started at first.

Steven Julian: So one of the outflows of this, because what I don’t want to have happen is somebody who’s a solo entrepreneur, a solo inventor going, well, no one’s talking about this project with all these different people. It doesn’t apply to me.

Noah McNeely: No matter. Yeah, it absolutely applies. to you. That’s why we’re talking. This is not the group project only episode. This applies to you. He just, I’m stealing it. I took it right out of your mouth. No, that’s not what I mean at all.

Steven Julian: So the, so the, so the, the topic today is no matter how big or small your project is, there’s going to be moments where you go, there’s just too many things. This, this is too big. So, um, and, and so again, you’re, you’re not, and so I’ve tried to talk about solo entrepreneurs, but. It’s almost, this is something that goes about industries and other businesses. And of course, you have a reference. It reminds you of a story or reminds you of a movie or, you know, kind of tie it in. Make it entertaining. Yeah.

Noah McNeely: So like you said, even so entrepreneurs, it could be a big problem for you to solve, even if you had a team of 12 people, maybe it wouldn’t be. But, you know, everybody’s got these big problems to solve. You know, one of the things you can do is you go back to, I think, an old Confucian proverb of, I. don’t know if that’s where it is. Maybe that’s just what I think it is. But the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. You can go to that. And, you know, they also like to say the journey to the refrigerator also begins with a single step. I’ll be right back.

Steven Julian: I’m going to get a Dr. Pepper out of your refrigerator. Keep talking.

Noah McNeely: Please, please do. But that’s not really all that useful. I mean, it is a little bit in the point of that is, well, you just got to start somewhere. Okay. That’s fine. But you still got this great big problem ahead of you. So that’s, um, that’s why I brought that up because I thought it would be funny. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. Yeah.

Steven Julian: By the way, the, uh, the journey to your refrigerator inside the layer of product quickstart is four steps. So that’s right. I was shuffling, but you know, it’s still, it’s four steps there, four steps back. So, uh, and so, so you’ve got, and, and again, many examples, uh, you know, I was thinking. Team sports, I was involved in it and I coached. it and not one player, multiple players have to do multiple jobs to get there. You got to break it down. You got to break down big problems, right? So, okay, so there’s some examples. And you did mention, you didn’t quite mention it yet, but you were talking to me before about, there’s examples of this in movies as well.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, of course. You’re jumping around my notes here, so you’re confusing me, but that’s okay. I’m right there. I know. You skipped like three things.

Steven Julian: No, I didn’t. Think about this. So I was waiting for you to do the industries and you didn’t.

Noah McNeely: Fair enough. Fair enough.

Steven Julian: This is what we get for trying to use notes.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So this big project I’m working on, we had to get started. The way we eventually got started was we broke it into a chunk.

Steven Julian: Hold on. The question now is, is Jody going to edit this episode to take that out?

Noah McNeely: Oh, I think you need to accentuate all the disagreement here.

Steven Julian: Producer my butt. All right.

Noah McNeely: It’s productive disagreement.

Steven Julian: Noah, I’m going to get out of your way. Tell me what you’re thinking.

Noah McNeely: Please stay in my. way. But no, you said team sports. So just the example there is, you know, a football team can’t practice to win a football game. You know, they’ve got to practice all the different segments of the game. You got to practice offense. You got to practice defense. You got to practice special teams. You got to practice your touchdown dance. All these different things. Oh, the last one’s optional, but you got to do all these different things. You can’t go out and say, okay, go practice winning the game. That doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to break that big problem into lots of little problems. You know, and some teams do that better than others, I guess, but you have to do it that way. And think about those other industries that, you know, like a lot of industries, like a wedding planner can’t.

Steven Julian: I thought that was a good one.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, they can’t plan to put on a wedding. They have to break that into segments. You’ve got to have a segment about getting the flowers there. You’ve got to have a segment about getting the rice that kills the pigeons there. All the different stuff.

Steven Julian: Well, I would say both those examples, you plan a wedding by 127 smaller tasks that you’ve done. You win a football game by practicing all those different things of offense, defense, special teams, and yes, even your touchdown dance that you plan in front of the mirror.

Noah McNeely: Right. So like you said movies. So yeah, you’re right. I had something, I always have something about movies. It seems like maybe I watched too many movies. I don’t know, but.

Steven Julian: No way.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So like heist movies like Ocean’s Eleven or The Italian Job, you know, they don’t plan to let’s rob a casino and that’s the whole plan. They have to break that into different chunks. So it’s one person’s responsibility to figure out how the safe works and one person’s responsibility to figure out, you know, how do we disable the alarm system? All these different things. They have to be broken into chunks and then that becomes the overall plan. But that way you can have one person working on maybe step 12 of the plan while other people are working on the different bits and pieces.

Steven Julian: So the only question I have to ask about your. movie reference, those are great movie references, Oceans 11, 12, and 13, The Italian Job. Does The Secret of Nim have this as part of their storyline or not? Just trying to keep the joke going.

Noah McNeely: I don’t think so.

Steven Julian: I don’t think that was part of the plot line.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, there’s only so much planning mice can do. Yes, exactly.

Steven Julian: So you’ve got all kinds of clear examples where things have to be broken up. So you’re kind of bringing it back to the solopreneur, the entrepreneur, the inventor working by themselves. How do they do that by themselves? How do they get all these skills? You and this project you brought to the podcast. You had all these different specialists, and somebody’s got to start somewhere, and somebody’s got to decide to be the first one to go. You can’t just all work by yourself. So bring it down to the individual levels.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so these examples, they’re teams of people. Obviously, a football team’s going to divide up, divide and conquer how they approach the game. These heist movies, they’re going to divide and conquer. In this big project I’m working on, we divided and conquered that. and brought it into segments. But you as an entrepreneur, Inventing a product, that’s a really big problem, even if it’s a simple product. So you yourself, even if you’re going to do everything or almost everything, you need to break that up into chunks. And that may mean that you have to wear different hats throughout that process. And it’s really tempting to try to think about the whole problem at one time as an inventor or entrepreneur, but that’s usually not very productive. Putting on the hat for chunk one and just focusing on that and then putting on the hat for chunk three and focusing on that. These don’t necessarily have to go like. you don’t have to finish chunk one before you start these other chunks, but you have to really focus your time. Like, in fact, I would say you don’t do everything necessarily sequentially. You don’t wait until the very end of your product development to think about your marketing, but you put your marketing hat on and you take your designer hat off for a little while to get that done.

Steven Julian: How have you seen yourself or how have you seen your clients? do this well? Because I’m sitting here thinking some of this might be based on personality.

Noah McNeely: Absolutely. Okay.

Steven Julian: So what are some of the ways you’ve seen this work well? What are some of the examples where someone has gotten fuzzy on this? Let’s start with how do you see this work? Because I get it. Okay. I’ve got to wear different hats. How do I? What are some examples of people putting on this hat, doing it, and then taking it off and setting clear boundaries, doing this well? What does that look like?

Noah McNeely: So I see errors on kind of or problematic behavior on both sides of that. So on the one side, if you leave, you might be kind of fuzzy between the… The between the boundaries and that may even be unintentional. So you’re working on your marketing, but you keep getting distracted. You’re thinking about, okay, and I’m using marketing just as an example. It can be anywhere along the process. So you’re working on your marketing, you’re writing your logo, you’re developing your logo, all that sort of stuff. And you really can’t make any progress there because every 10 minutes you think about, oh, well, what about this other thing over here that I’ve got to go work on? Sometimes I think some people need to really almost work in a different space. For each of these things, you know, maybe take your laptop to a different table or go to the library to work on this thing if you find yourself too distracted by whatever environment you normally work in.

Steven Julian: So in my career as an independent financial advisor, I was told early on time blocking is essential. If you can do this and do it successfully, it’s okay. I’m going to set an alarm on my phone. For the next 90 minutes, I’m going to focus on marketing. And then I’m going to take a break. And you almost organize your day out. I’m going to try to put on these three hats today during these three blocks of time. And then you’ve got to guard that. Is that what you’re talking about?

Noah McNeely: It is, but… But my point, I guess a point I would make there is that doesn’t work well for everybody. And I’ll be honest, that doesn’t work great for me. So for me, I do find myself. easily distracted because I am working on several projects at once. So that’s why sometimes I find changing my environment helps. Even if that just means going to a table on the other side of the room to focus on something else. And maybe turning my phone off for a while to focus on this, that, or the other. Or coming back to the shop and leaving my phone in the office so I can focus just on building that prototype.

Steven Julian: So one of the solutions I think where we would start with is somewhat, you’ve got to figure out who you are. Yes. See, I see it as a personality. And I brought up that story because I’m not the greatest time blocker. But I had to get at least decent enough where I said, okay. After I check my email in the morning and get all that stuff out of the way, I can’t go back to my email until 1 o’clock, and I got to take that time. So I had to be somewhat of a time blocker, but there are some people, type A personality, man, they can, and going back to your point of football, you talk to any football coach, they have their practices down to the minute. We’re going to this, we’re going to this, they blow the whistle, they go, and you got to get everything done in that amount of time. I do think there are some their personality type in yours. You’re kind of admitting this like, hey, sometimes I just I got to know when to check myself. I don’t you don’t necessarily set alarms, but you’re like. No, I really need to concentrate on this, and so I’m going to go over here, and when I feel like I’ve made some progress or I can’t put off anything else anymore, I’ll go back to the other thing. So is a little bit of knowing yourself, whether you need to be slave to the clock or not a little bit?

Noah McNeely: I think so, and I think it’s going to work differently for everybody. So knowing yourself, you bring up a good point there. I think there are a lot of people that are like, And I like to describe myself this way. I’m a multitasker, but that doesn’t mean I can do 30 things at one time. What that. means is I can be very disciplined about switching from one thing to the next. And sometimes in rapid succession, this isn’t necessarily, this is part of your personality too. Some people need to take a whole day and just do one thing. Correct. That’s fine. That’s how you find the way you work well. If that’s how you work best, do that. I actually don’t work the best that way. I do need to do one thing at a time, but I actually find myself working better in an hour at a time. And because of my particular mental issues or whatever we want to call them, I need to jump from thing to thing more periodically so that that keeps my creativity flowing. Other people, and I’ve worked with some in the past that… They really do not thrive that way. They thrive on the other end of the spectrum. No, I just want to focus on one thing for two days. And if you distract me at all, I’m going to lose my mind and start over. Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics.

Steven Julian: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in. delicious mint and mocha flavors. But the taste is just the beginning. With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Try today at getopu.com. That’s getopu.com. So we’ve talked, so I like that you’ve taken the time and we’ve talked a little bit about kind of know thyself and figure out how you work best in this, but that we do need to tackle the main issue of big, big problems or big tasks gone down into manageable chunks and taking those chunks one at a time. You’ve got something that you want to kind of talk about, a big trick, something that can really kind of help with this idea of this big problem, big project, and breaking it down into smaller things.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So one of the key, you know, it’s easier said than done to break a big problem into small chunks. How you define the boundaries between those different chunks. And it’s really, in my experience, very critical to make those boundaries very solid. Very explicit boundaries. And I don’t mean explicit like explicit lyrics in a song.

Steven Julian: I was going to say, what. do you mean by boundaries? The boundary between marketing and talking to the factory? Are you talking about boundaries between–because I’m just kind of–I guess in order to know the boundaries, I have to know what all the different tasks are. In your big project, everybody knows what their task is. I think sometimes as a solo entrepreneur, it’s like I’m not even sure I could define all the tasks. Am I on to something there?

Noah McNeely: Yes, absolutely. And there’s people like me that can help you understand what those steps are, of course. But I think the boundaries between things like marketing and talking to the factory, those–Those are a little more obvious. It’s really more within these elements of a program. So like within marketing, you’ve got your branding, you know, your logo and et cetera. And then you’ve also got, you know, who am I marketing it to? How am I going to market it? This, that, and the other. And not letting those things blend together. So in other words, the brand will feed in or the target market that will feed into the brand. Once I identify the target market, the output of that, you know, it’s teenage girls or whatever, that becomes the input to defining the brand. Or in the example that I was, you know, in the project I’m working on, we’re dealing with electronics that have to communicate from one area to another. So that boundary becomes module B is going to deliver this information to module C. And Module C is going to take that information around with it. So it’s not left fuzzy in the sense of, well, Module C’s got to do this and Module B’s got to do this. And we don’t really know yet what’s going to be, we got to set a stake in the ground and say, okay, Module A is going to deliver temperature and power and whatever to Module C. And then if we define that well, we can have somebody start on Module C long before we finish Module B. That sounded very technical and engineering and nerdy, and I apologize.

Steven Julian: I was just going to say, you are tackling this like an engineer.

Noah McNeely: I know, and it’s irritating. Why?

Steven Julian: But it’s necessary, apparently. I suppose. What’s the biggest danger of…

Noah McNeely: Asteroids. Oh, I’m sorry. There’s more to the question.

Steven Julian: You sure it’s not hemorrhoids? What is the biggest danger?

Noah McNeely: I’m sure.

Steven Julian: Okay. So what’s the danger of me not defining the boundaries? What is the danger? What’s the biggest danger? Is it that I get stuck? Is it that I never get anything accomplished? Is it that I come out and it’s just this giant mishmash and I’ve never really solved any problems or found a solution? Or it’s the project that I work on for 10 years and never get to the end?

Noah McNeely: If you don’t define the boundaries, I think you really haven’t divided the problem up. I mean, if you don’t define a boundary, Then how do you know where, you know, problem group B starts? How do you know what you’re supposed to have at the end of group A to get into group B? So in other words, you haven’t divided that up at all now. It’s just still one big problem to solve.

Steven Julian: Can I give you an analogy from my career?

Noah McNeely: Please.

Steven Julian: Okay. So I’m allowed by compliance to say that I’m an independent financial advisor, and that’s all I’m allowed to say. If I said more, I would have to get it approved by compliance, yada, yada, yada, yada. I started my career with a firm that’s famous for bringing in people from other careers like me, kind of a nonprofit educational background type scenario. Studying to be a financial advisor, and there is one thing I will say great about this former firm that I started with. They took away so many other parts of the problem of being a financial advisor by providing an assistant, by providing office space, by taking care of computer and having an IT, because they set the boundary so clearly of your job. Talk to people, find people, get them to talk about their money, show them what you do, and see if they’re interested in hiring you. That’s it. That’s a whole job. That’s all you got to worry about. Everything else that would pop up, well, call the computer. They’ll call the IT. We’ll send somebody to you. Have your administrative assistant handle that. We’ll take care of the… I never had to worry about any of the other things around the business. I mean, and people go, well, there was something, but they really did a. very good job of defining the boundaries of saying, this is your job. That’s all it is. Find money. So I think the more in your bringing your product to market and putting your idea, the more you can eliminate some things or the more you can hand off. I’m going to have somebody else handle that possibly so that I can–so that is part of defining the boundaries, defining what you want to accomplish.

Noah McNeely: I think that’s it. But I also think that even if you are a lone entrepreneur, you’re at that stage of your process and you’re bootstrapping it so you can’t afford an assistant or whatever, that goes back to wearing the right hat at the right time. You have to–you cannot wear the assistant hat and the IT hat and the–I’m the guy who–You know, pays the rent hat. You’ve got to put on that hat, finish that task or get as far as you need to on that task, then take that hat off and put another hat on.

Steven Julian: Because if you don’t file your taxes, they’re going to eventually come and close down your business.

Noah McNeely: Well, yeah, there’s that. But if you’re going through email and you’re flipping from email to email and wearing a different hat every two minutes, you’re not going to, you’re going to drive yourself crazy.

Steven Julian: Yeah. And so you talk about the handoffs, you know, got to be explicit. I’m putting this down and I’m picking this up for a specific period of time or until I get to this part of the process. And then, okay, I got where I needed to go. I got something done. Let’s put that down. Let’s go to something else. Now I’m going to put everything down and go home and rest because I need to get my rest. So the handoffs kind of being explicit. So let’s say we start. We’re doing good. We’re not as fuzzy. We’ve got some handoffs. We’re starting to define. The boundaries go farther down the path. Is this just, oh, I just got to do this once and really concentrate on it. It’ll be fine. Or is this a daily, you know, take up my cross kind of thing that I got to do this over and over and over again?

Noah McNeely: Well, I mean, hopefully it’s. not quite that intense, but. You have to look at it. It’s a tool like anything else in business. It is a tool that you have at your disposal to use. So don’t freak out early on and worry about, oh, what, you know, define this handoff between this step and that step. Well, what if I’m working on it and that needs to change for some reason? That’s okay. We can come back and change these later, but you have to start somewhere. And starting somewhere is not, oh, I got to solve this whole big problem at one time. It’s still breaking it into bits and pieces. And you may find that, oh, well, piece C and piece D, they’re really kind of the same and I’m going to merge this. That’s okay. If that helps you get further along, that’s fine. And you may also find, well, piece D needs to divide into five different pieces at some point. That’s also okay. It is not, what you do on day one is not set in stone. This is really just a technique to help you move down the road.

Steven Julian: Yep. Not only do you have a movie. analogy, I believe you have a streaming slash TV series analogy.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So, you know, years ago I watched Game of Thrones. I watched the whole thing all the way through. And I, you know, I enjoyed it because I like fantasy sci-fi stuff. But, you know, so one of the main characters in the, for those who haven’t seen it, one of the main characters is Daenerys Targaryen. And she, you know, you kind of follow her journey. You know, she’s one of several characters. you follow her journey. If you don’t. The show can be really annoying because it’ll spend three scenes on one character and then go to someone else. You don’t get back to that character until like two episodes later. But anyway.

Steven Julian: But they do define the boundaries very clearly.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, kind of. But anyway, that’s not my point. My point is, you know, her goal, her overarching goal, you know, her family had been thrown out of the kingdom and lost the throne and this, that, and this. Her overarching goal throughout the series is to reclaim, you know, her rulership of this kingdom and all. And, you know, there’s a lot of bits. and pieces, but she couldn’t start. In fact, she didn’t even know enough to start with that as the whole goal. I’m going to retake the kingdom. She had to do it. She had to divide it into little segments and each one led to another. And she had to make changes and evolutions along the way based on how things evolve. So just back to the thing about the boundaries may change in the definition of the different segments may change. And as she started with. I’ve got these baby dragons. I’ve got to raise these dragons. That’s step one. Then I’ve got to find an army. Where am I going to find an army? I’ve got to get a fleet. Now I’m going to burn these cities and all this sort of horrible stuff she ends up doing. But she couldn’t start with all of that at one time because, again, she would drive herself crazy. She had to do things in chunks. So that’s sort of an odd example in a way, but it does relate, I think.

Steven Julian: See, my reference would have been Gilligan’s Island. They, you know, they had to get off the island. They. had to break it into chunks. The problem was every single week there was something else that would come up that would distract them from doing what they needed to do.

Noah McNeely: You had to build a bamboo radio. You had to build a bamboo car. You had to get the Harlem Globetrotters there.

Steven Julian: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you had to get the Howells to dump all their stuff. And then you make bicycles that you spin to turn the fan and all that kind of stuff. Exactly. No, I like your analogy better. I will.

Noah McNeely: Go ahead. No, you’re going to say something.

Steven Julian: I believe you have one other analogy.

Noah McNeely: I do. Something a little bit more practical. So let’s say your goal, your overarching goal is I want to have warm water come out of my faucet.

Steven Julian: I think that’s everybody’s overarching goal.

Noah McNeely: Oh, fine. But let’s say you had to develop the whole system from scratch. So you can’t just start with, oh, warm water coming out of the faucet. You’ve got to break this into chunks.

Steven Julian: So think about how the water- So you start by having baby dragons.

Noah McNeely: Oh, sorry. Go ahead. If you can start with. baby dragons, you should start everything with baby dragons. But anyway, it’s too big of a problem to solve at once. So you’ve got- And think about how it actually works in the real world. The water company just doesn’t deliver warm water to your faucet. They have broken it into, and the whole system is broken into a set of segments. And there’s something between each segment, a valve. So first, the water comes from the water, well, there’s stuff before that, but the water comes from the water tower and there’s big water mains, gets to the street in front of your house, and there’s a great big valve there that can be turned on and off to let water go to the next step, which is the pipe that goes from the street. To your house, there’s a big valve there. And then from there, you’ve got, they open that valve and it sends the water in a couple of different places. The water that’s going to be hot goes to your hot water here. The water that’s going to be cold can come straight to your sink. And there’s other valves there that actually goes up. to the faucet, which mixes it and et cetera. So each one of those segments is a different element of the problem. And those valves, that’s the really well-defined boundary between each one. So if I’m building a house from scratch, I know what I’m going to get from the water company. There’s going to be a valve, it’s going to be this size, this is how much pressure it’s going to deliver, theoretically, from the water company. And I can take it from there, you know, as a plumber or a builder. I know, okay, well, I’m getting that from the city. So I know this is the size pipe I need and whatnot. Maybe that’s all my job. Maybe I’m just doing the pipes under the ground and I’m taking it to the stub and somebody else is going to build the house. Well, I know they’re going to need this size valve here, so I’m going to put that at the end of my work. And then they can already be designing the house knowing what size valve they need to interface with. And that’s really those well-defined boundaries between… The different segments of the problem. And. that’s why it’s important.

Steven Julian: Yeah. And everybody listening to this, I think you kind of think through what’s the warm, you know, they’ve got the getting warm water to my face. I like to use that part of the plumbing analogy rather than I got to get this stuff out of my house. So both w

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: