Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: What happens when two heroes team up to help get your product design to market? Well, we’ve got super friends around product design here in the studio with Noah and his friend Willis. Next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius.

Willis Whiteside: The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products.

Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius.

Willis Whiteside: Let’s get started.

Steven Julian: Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yay! It’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian, busting everybody’s eardrums, ready to have a fantastic show because you are here with us virtually listening while we are in the lair of Product Quick Start to do another episode of Product Genius. Seated to my right is the intrepid producer, Jody Smith. Seated to my left is my guest, who we’ll get to in just a moment. Seated across from me. I think I said moment. I meant to.

Willis Whiteside: say moment.

Steven Julian: Seated across from me. Is the man of the hour, the man with the power, too sweet to be sour. It is the host of Product Genius, Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Well, as usual, it’s good to be here. And as usual, I have something to say about your introduction. There were hints of Good Morning Vietnam in that particular intro.

Steven Julian: Yes, there was a little bit of homage to Robin Williams. There was also a very famous, semi-famous wrestling promo style. Dusty Rhodes, you know, with the, you know, and I think maybe he was my brother’s favorite wrestler. He was many people’s favorite wrestler for a period of time. So shout out to the current WWE Universal Heavyweight Champion, his son, Cody Rhodes. So anyway, yeah, I thought I’d bring a little energy. and there is one of the reasons I love this show is you have me here to be silly, to be energetic, and then I do all that and you go, hello. It was fantastic.

Noah McNeely: That’s how engineers express excitement.

Steven Julian: Just the exact right amount. I don’t want to, you know, yeah, I’m with you there. Not too much mirth for an engineer. So we’re. excited. We have a very, we have a guest who is a very close friend, very close colleague, someone you’ve worked with many, many times.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, we’ve known each other for… Probably 15, 20 years. we’ve been working together pretty closely for the last several years and collaborating on things.

Steven Julian: So let me introduce him.

Noah McNeely: Please do.

Steven Julian: We are thrilled to have Willis Whiteside from White Light Design here in the studio. Willis, welcome to the studio.

Willis Whiteside: Thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure. Noah is… A good partner and brings a lot to the table and he invited me here to share with you guys and we would love to do that. I know there’s not a shortage of inventors or invention ideas out there and we want to try to help those people do that. We love the opportunity.

Steven Julian: So I think one of the, probably the first question is if you kind of do product design and Noah kind of does product design, there’s probably a lot of overlap. Is there anything that the reason why Noah collaborates with you? Are there some things you kind of specialize in, a little more concentrated in, some areas of specialty that maybe Noah kind of needs your help on?

Willis Whiteside: Yes.

Steven Julian: Of course, Noah doesn’t need help with anything, but we’ll pretend.

Noah McNeely: Maintaining sanity is a big need here someday.

Steven Julian: Especially on recording days.

Noah McNeely: Well, after recording days.

Steven Julian: So what are you bringing to the table? What’s kind of your areas of expertise in the way you work with design?

Willis Whiteside: I would say in general, the experience of doing it for 25 years, and then I think… My, as an industrial designer, so I’m an industrial designer from Ohio State, I got my master’s from Georgia Tech, which was the School of Architecture Industrial Design Product. So I just had a dream to start White Light Design and help inventors and companies bring new products to the market. So my focus is really more on the upfront sort of creativity, new ideas, solving problems, and being able to sketch those out quickly. Communicate those through quick CAD models and color renderings. I use different CAD programs than Noah does for the speed to ideate or bring the three-dimensional geometry to life. But we collaborate. that whatever I try to do from an industrial design standpoint, I’m thinking. like Noah, who is more of, let’s say, the mechanical 3D CAD part of my equation or the way we help customers bring it to the market. So I work with mechanical engineers, 3D CAD engineers, which Noah is one of the best I’ve ever known.

Noah McNeely: One of the best.

Willis Whiteside: Well, no, I’ve been fortunate to work with some other good ones, too.

Steven Julian: By the way, that’s the most excited I’ve ever or engaged I’ve ever heard of. Man, that was an emotional response from Noah McNeely. Holy cow, you got him riled up there, Willis. Well done.

Willis Whiteside: Well, the fact that you’re an industrial designer as well gives you the edge on the other mechanical designers I work with. So you bring that to the table. I know that when I work with engineers, You have to direct them or communicate what you want them to do, okay? You can’t just sit down at the table and say, do me a CAD model. You’ve got to give them the drawings and the dimensions sometimes down to the thousands of an inch, you know? And then you communicate it and then they draw something up or sketch it up and. go, oh, you know, that’s not what I wanted. So it’s a back and forth. My job is to try to get it right the first time. So to communicate the design through the drawing or the sketch. Or the quick CAD model, so Noah can quickly translate that to the mechanical CAD programs that we have. that gives much more power to the customer to make changes to the CAD model and we can take those CAD files and bring it to the market. But the ability for him to make those 3D CAD models on top of our ability to use the creativity and sort of upfront design work speeds the process up. So we can take a product very quickly to market.

Steven Julian: As the other tech alum, although not an engineer, listening to that great answer, somewhere there’s a lot of tech engineers listening to the… Show. And when he goes, you got to tell him exactly the engineers are going, yeah. And what would you point? Of course, that’s what you should do. You have to be precise.

Noah McNeely: That’s why, that’s why I call myself a recovering engineer. I, you know, I try to read between. the lines a bit more than I was taught, at least in undergrad.

Steven Julian: So, so Noah, I want to, so let me ask you in one of the things you kind of wanted to talk to with Willis here in the studio is. I think some people might have a preconceived notion of how you guys come at it or the model that you guys are following. You were kind of talking ahead of show about there’s, again, you guys are different and unique and do things different than your typical, you know, engineering office. So talk a little bit about that.

Noah McNeely: Yes, I’m probably going to give some analogies like I usually do. At one point in time, Willis and I probably viewed each other more as competitors than anything else. But over time, it kind of became more of like the superhero team-up movie. Remember that movie, Batman vs. Superman? Yes. But then they became friends. They started working together.

Steven Julian: Was there someone named Martha that brought you together? that got the fans all mad? I’m sorry. That’s a side nerd. The nerd topic has been done for the day, so you may continue.

Noah McNeely: Do I need to? give more analogies to get you back?

Steven Julian: I’m already on. I’m in. I’m in. Let’s go.

Noah McNeely: So we kind of have this more superhero team up kind of approach than always being in the same building at the same time. So the traditional model for companies that help other companies develop products and inventors help develop products is you’d have a team of five people, 12 people, 40 people, 200 people, and they’re all sitting in your building. Whether they’re busy or not. So that ends up with a lot of overhead. I used to run a company like that. It’s just a different business model. It’s not bad. It’s not wrong. It’s just different. It does tend to lead to higher costs. And there are certainly benefits of companies like that. But the other analogy, which you called out on my notes earlier, is that overhead. If you remember the story of Damocles, the sword of Damocles from Greek mythology, he’s the king of wherever. Syracuse or something. I don’t know. But anyway, there’s the sword hanging above his head on a really thin string. And the message there is there’s a lot of pressure on the person that’s. kind of in charge. or in the case of these companies like the one I used to run and the one, you know. Other companies like this, you’ve got all this overhead. that’s a huge amount of pressure on the company to keep selling projects left, right, and everywhere, and you have to charge a lot of money for those projects to pay for that overhead. At one point, I had 40 employees in my previous engagement. It was very rare that all 40 of them were at full capacity all the time. So usually, we always had some extra weight, and that extra weight still has to have a salary. It’s very different now. As Will’s and I met each other or got deeper into working with each other, and we actually have other people in our team that are like this, we’re more of a collaborative or a cooperative or a distributed model where we’re all senior people. We all have a lot of expertise. We all bring that to the table. But Willis isn’t paying me to sit here if he doesn’t have something for me to do and vice versa. And the other people on our. team, our electronics engineer and our prototyping experts and et cetera, that we have all this vast wealth of knowledge at our fingertips, but we’re not paying super premium level salaries across the board all the time.

Steven Julian: And Willis, this model that you guys have kind of worked your way into relationally over time. I don’t think this is a model that would work if you guys were in your mid-20s and kind of starting out, right? So how has, you know, Noah kind of laid that out as what’s happened? You got a particular story or you got a, or just kind of advice that as you’ve walked this with someone who to Noah’s word, you know, at one point was seen as a competitor. Now it’s more coopetition or it’s more, hey, we actually are partnering. What was it like to walk this path and kind of find a partner without having to join your businesses together?

Willis Whiteside: Well, back in early 90s when I started White Light Design, I sort of, you know, I guess focused on the inventors and all that stuff. But I then got locked in, or not locked into, but the opportunity to work. for a couple small design firms, small to medium size, say five to ten designers. I knew what it was like to go in and have to fill out the time card and say, I worked on this project for eight hours, and then you add that up, I worked on this project for 40 hours, and everybody in the building’s doing that. And of course, the paycheck’s going out the door. But at each one of the firms, the… So design firms, corporations, we were all trying to make winners, right? We wanted to survive. We wanted to get projects. We all wanted to do that. A couple of them even had full-time salesmen. So, you know, we were trying to do the thing. But what we found out was that overhead of paying all the employees and when the projects get slow, you’re going in the hole real quick. So it’s from that.

Steven Julian: Yeah, so you both kind of, it was a different journey, but there were some similar mile markers along the way, both inside the office.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, we both experienced the same phenomenon, just in a different company.

Willis Whiteside: Yeah, so I thought, you know, hey, you. can do this yourself. I was fortunate enough to hook up with a couple of large corporations, Coca-Cola and Georgia Pacific, doing industrial design and prototyping work, which fed my business to grow as it was. But then, you know, as… Noah knows. I couldn’t keep two or three engineers full-time in my business, the way it was going. So I hired contractors. We hire them as we need them. And the engineers are happy. We’re happy. So we get the job done. But not having that overhead, we can streamline the economies to our projects. And I know from how Noah and I quote Project, we are way below what those corporations I worked with were charging customers per phase. Sure.

Steven Julian: Yep. We’re speaking with Willis Whiteside. He is with White Light Design. And Willis, I’m also going to assume, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but you, much like Noah here at Product Quickstart, you’ve probably got stories of inventors, entrepreneurs that have met you and you bring them from design idea all the way to market, whether you involve Noah or other geniuses around the table that you bring. You’ve got stories just like Noah has. stories of people that have met you when it was just idea and you help that inventor kind of bring their product to market.

Willis Whiteside: Yes. So as an industrial designer, we have the capabilities to take you from idea or sketch. We may get something very crude and say, go on the internet and I want something that works like this. So we can start from a sketch, but then we’re able to take it to the full development of making it a 3D model. Typically, we use the proof of concept prototype. So let’s mock this thing up. Let’s get it mechanically functioning, prove it out. Then we’ll go in and try to design it for mass production, which is typically where the mechanical engineers or like Noah come in and help us do the 3D CAD model. And once you have that 3D CAD model, you can go to prototyping, you can go to manufacturing, or you can come back to the design table and say, we need to make some changes and do that. Very quickly. But the capability of taking it all the way is what we specialized in. You know, packaging, display, exhibit, whatever else. the customer needs to help brand their product and promote it. We try to fill in the blank. We don’t specialize in that, but if we’re called upon, we’ll help you do it. Primarily, we’re product development. Full prototype shop. But it’s helping those customers get from no idea or I don’t know where to start to. let’s put a prototype on the table. That’s what we do the best. Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics.

Steven Julian: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors.

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Steven Julian: That’s get O-P-U dot com. As the slightly annoying co-host, I think it’s now about time for a little bit of comic relief. So Willis, if I put you too much on the spot, you’re allowed to decline and then I’ll have to do some song and dance to try and get at least myself to laugh.

Noah McNeely: Oh, I want to see this.

Steven Julian: Yeah, exactly. No, no. You better save that because there’s only. going to be that. It only happens once. So one of the things we joke about on this show is that for all the great… Ways that Noah and other geniuses he’s brought to the table have been able to help people bring their product to market. There’s a couple of long-running jokes. One is the contact us form that says, I have a great idea, call me, right? So that’s just silly in and of itself. But we’ve also enjoyed, and hopefully I’m fighting for the merch for Frank’s Cheese Hammers, the product idea that just makes no sense. When cutting the cheese just isn’t enough, still one of the greatest tag marketing lines for a product that doesn’t yet exist and shouldn’t exist because there’s no use. Do you have, in your years, you’ve got to have at least one that you can share enough detail while, so that the guilty can remain anonymous. You’ve got to have at least one. really good, somebody came to me with this dumb idea and, you know, you had to call the baby ugly. You had to, one of the ways you help them. Financially was by keeping them from wasting. their money going down this road of this particular product. Do you got at least one comic relief story you can share?

Willis Whiteside: We’ve got a couple of those.

Steven Julian: I figured you got a couple dozen of those, but yeah.

Willis Whiteside: I think the one that may come across the table is the virtual energy machine. Nice.

Steven Julian: Tell me more.

Willis Whiteside: So they’ve come up with some idea, some method of capturing the energy of something falling or something floating or something coming to the surface, expanding gas, whatever it is that they think they can replace on energy or create more energy than they put in. Okay. Now I have several mechanical engineers that have told me that’s… That’s pretty difficult to do. But I have to convince the client and charge them a fee to say, I’ve got to tell you and show you why you can’t do it. So we put together a two or three page report, which sort of goes down the basic logic of the physics of why this is really going to be a challenge. So those projects are tough to commit. Tell the customer, you shouldn’t spend a lot of money in doing this unless. you’ve got a lot of money to spend.

Steven Julian: Please stop here.

Noah McNeely: And I don’t care how much money you have, the laws of physics still apply to you.

Steven Julian: The virtual energy machine. That might top more vegan options.

Noah McNeely: This virtual energy machine is going to lead to a virtual business.

Steven Julian: But what won’t be virtual is the amount of money they waste going down that path.

Noah McNeely: Yes, you’ll be virtually bankrupt when you’re done.

Steven Julian: Noah, you have obviously partnered a lot with Willis and you even kind of hinted like, hey, this is going to be an interesting show just because you’ve worked with him so much. It’s like, I already know everything.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s a little different.

Steven Julian: So I’m going to ask you to give me and to give our audience a testimonial of, you know, let us come behind the curtain of a way that you. That Willis brought something that you couldn’t bring or that you knew he would enhance what you were doing and working with a client or just bringing him on the team and saying, we need him as part of this to kind of help.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So I can’t give the details specific.

Steven Julian: Of course not because of, yeah.

Noah McNeely: The CIA and the whole nine yards. It’s a sporting goods product we worked on recently and actually just finally shipped to the client not too long ago. And one of the things that I brought Willison for that he was really a lot better at than I am is that early proof of concept model. Because he was able to very quickly, and thus saving budget for the client, create a semi-working prototype just out of foam core and wood dowels. Duct tape and stuff like that. And frankly, it looked pretty darn good for just duct tape and foam core. And it worked. It demonstrated the functionality. It helped the client realize, okay, we’re looking at this a little bit wrong. Let’s change this shape. Let’s change that shape. So that industrial design thought process at that stage, that’s something that Willis excels at. So that’s where he became the Batman to my Superman or the whatever to my, you know. The Iron Man to my Captain America, you know? So that team up was important.

Steven Julian: Let’s keep it in the DC universe.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, but I thought it pompous to say I’m. Superman, so I wanted to change that. I’m not Superman.

Steven Julian: Right. No, no. More Green Lantern.

Noah McNeely: Okay, I’ll take that. Yeah, yeah. I’ll accept that.

Steven Julian: Okay.

Noah McNeely: We’ll have to talk about which Green Lantern.

Steven Julian: Hal Jordan or, oh wait, Jon Stewart?

Noah McNeely: Just not the…

Steven Julian: Guy Gardner?

Noah McNeely: Not Guy Gardner. We talk about a lot of nerdy things here, Willis.

Steven Julian: Do you want to jump in on the nerd conversation at all?

Willis Whiteside: As soon as I see a fit.

Noah McNeely: I am very much looking forward to Nathan. Doctor Who fan?

Willis Whiteside: I’m sorry?

Steven Julian: Or Doctor Who fan?

Willis Whiteside: I’m not a fan.

Steven Julian: I’m sorry.

Noah McNeely: I am very much looking forward to Nathan Fillion playing Guy Gardner. That’s going to be fantastic.

Steven Julian: Ooh. Wait, is he? Are they doing a movie?

Noah McNeely: Yeah. And the Superman movie that’s coming up, he’s playing Guy Gardner.

Steven Julian: Oh, I did see that. Okay.

Noah McNeely: Sorry.

Steven Julian: Listen, I am a nerd on many levels. I’m not a nerd on the upcoming movies because I’ve been disappointed to me. Anyway, back to the topic, we’re talking with Willis Whiteside here of White Light Design. Now, Willis, you shared this a little bit pre-show and this is a little nuance that I. enjoy. So Noah has this, we have a podcast called Product Genius. Noah’s company is called Product Quick Start, which I always appreciate because It’s product quick start. We get a quick start on getting your product to market. I liked a little bit of the creativity you were sharing about the name White Light because I thought you were just trying to torture people because your name is Willis Whiteside of White Light. And I thought, well, they probably don’t say Willis Whiteside of White Light very often. So White Light Design, that’s a really cool story. Talk about how you came up with the name White Light Design.

Willis Whiteside: Well, thank you. Well, of course, being a white side, I’m partial to the color. So I use that as sort of an… I think when I first started thinking about creating a design company, you go out there and look at the design world and there’s lots of logos of people trying to project, I guess, their initials or some sparky name, which I thought, great, but I wanted something that was closer. And then I brought together the logic of using a light bulb, the flashing light bulb, white light, light up the room. So the concept of the white light bulb became the sort of icon that I wanted to focus in on to represent the company. So I probably went through three or four logo designs. It started, you know, very simple up to the one we have now. But that was, I guess, the influence of inspiration, creativity. I’m a Christian, so I think my creativity comes from the Lord. Sure. And I express it, and I try to bring it to the table with grace. And so White Light sort of encompasses that as an ability to use it.

Steven Julian: There’s layers to it. There’s layers to why you use it. I like that. So, Willis, we’ve, on this show, over many shows, no, one of the audio—On earth. I was, I was wondering if you would pick up on that.

Noah McNeely: I am a pleasure to be with you.

Steven Julian: You are an absolute delight. One would say Turkish delight. Shout out the Lewis and Chronicles of Narnia. That’s a deep cut nerd. And it was a joke. Yeah, I know. Let’s get back to the main question. So, so Willis, an ongoing conversation in. this show that, that Noah really wants to bring to the table. when we talk about all the time is we try to let people. Let people know about what’s going on in the whole process from idea to invention to bringing it to market. Noah has talked about this. I’m excited to ask someone else who’s worked alongside him and with him and sometimes even just in a whole separate project of you doing your own business. Can you pinpoint one or two major pain points or one or two major obstacles? Where does, in your experience, where do the works get gummed up? When people are trying to go from idea to market, where are the main pressure points? Where are the places where people, you know, where do you see people trip up in getting from idea to market most?

Willis Whiteside: Loaded question, right? Of course.

Steven Julian: So I also tried to make it as broad as possible to say whatever you want.

Willis Whiteside: The public, there were inventor groups and there were some commercials or invention companies that say, we’ll help you promote your business, okay? And then the InfoMotor came along where now we’ve got the invent companies, the light bulb companies that say, we can take your idea and we’ll put it in front of 200 companies and we’re going to give you a nice big royalty, okay? That’s one thing I’ve never heard of taking place in my business of somebody doing that.

Steven Julian: So the scamming of that. Correct.

Noah McNeely: At least no one doing it successfully.

Steven Julian: Yeah, there’s no work to this at all. Just give us your idea and we’ll turn it.

Willis Whiteside: Many of our customers or some of our clients are customers that have went to these invention companies. Then they come back and show me the rendering that they got and say, that’s all I got for my $8,000. So it’s that story. But then Shark Tank came along, okay? And everyone’s now dreaming of, I can bring my invention to the market. Of course, you know, on Shark Tank, you’ve got to have some proven sales before they’re going to think about biting on you and investing in it. So the trick for the inventors now is, I think, maybe not knowing of or understanding the importance of using industrial designers and upfront product design companies like Product Quickstart to help them. come to the market, and they try to do it themselves. Through the garage or people I know, yeah, I have a buddy that does this or my son did the website for me, which is all good.

Noah McNeely: My nephew watched YouTube and knows how to do CAD now.

Willis Whiteside: So there’s a lot of, you know, I have my own printer and I’m printing my own prototypes and that’s all good and banked, but you have to bring everything together. And you have the expertise or the experience to know how to bring it to get to that mechanical CAD model. Everyone needs that.

Steven Julian: So let me let you focus on that a little bit. So the mechanical CAD model, everybody needs that when it comes to putting a product. I’m going to ask the question as someone who’s never brought a product to market, why? Why does everybody need that mechanical CAD model? Why is that so important?

Willis Whiteside: Because that’s where the manufacturers need to work from drawings. Or 3D virtual CAD models that they can scroll around on the screen, or they can go inside that model and pull a dimension they need, but they use that 3D. CAD model to then say, well, I’m going to injection mold this, so I have to make it into clamshell halves, and then I got to create the molds for those two halves. Well, unless you have the data, even if it’s a simple dowel stick, I need a CAD model of that to go to the… Shop and say, make me 500 of these and make them all exactly the same. So it’s the quality control. You have to have that data or that information to go to the manufacturers. You know, you can’t even get a quote from an injection molder until you have the CAD model. So injection molders send us clients and say, this customer needs your design, needs the CAD model so we can mold it for them.

Noah McNeely: It’s kind of like the difference between having a picture of an apple pie and having a recipe for an apple pie. You can’t, you don’t know what ingredients to buy if you don’t have the recipe.

Steven Julian: Or, or take it a step further. I’ve got the list of ingredients, but I don’t know how much.

Noah McNeely: Right. Yeah.

Steven Julian: I know I need to add brown sugar. Is. that a, or vanilla? If that’s a teaspoon or a cup, it’ll change the. Yeah.

Noah McNeely: Well, the bag of Doritos lists the ingredients. It just doesn’t tell you the, the quantities and how you, you’re not going to make your own Doritos.

Steven Julian: Yep.

Willis Whiteside: And the bag’s way smaller now too.

Noah McNeely: That’s true.

Willis Whiteside: That’s true.

Steven Julian: And it’s filled with air when you open it up. You’re like, there’s eight chips in here. Somebody’s trying to tell me something.

Willis Whiteside: If you’re an inventor out there and you want to bring your product to market, we know it’s difficult to go get funding at interest rates of 5% to 7% to 10%. I have an associate of mine that’s in a small business. He’s got a small business loan of $7,000 a month due on his small business loan every month. He goes, I can’t do it. So we know it’s difficult. So the main thing to do is not to underestimate how much it takes to bring that product to market. I give an estimate of $50,000 to $75,000 from nothing to. maybe I have something that’s in a box that I can then start to sell out of my garage in. a website. So the people that can bring it to the garage and get it made, you know, they understand that budget. Now I got to pay some, I get the molds. You got to understand 25% of your total product development budget may be into product development, but you need 75% of that budget to then start promoting it, to create the sales, to get your return on investment.

Steven Julian: And let me ask you as someone who, again, you know, and the way Noah has described it on the show before is he will walk with them through that whole journey. Even if he isn’t doing everything, he brings other people to the table. So you’ve kind of helped people bring the… Bring the product and get a design and we find a manufacturer. Are there specific things you do with your clients that you’re like, I’m going to help in getting this product launched and help you beyond just giving advice? Do you actually handhold a little bit at times? or are you like, I’ve got people that I’ve partnered with that I want to hand them off to. that’ll help them launch those sales and get those. sales growing?

Willis Whiteside: If it’s regarding product development. Standard promotional materials, we can help. We can jump in and do a brochure for you or something like that. But if, you know, we’re not going to do a website for you, we’re not going to help you go out and do marketing and sales. So we’re not a marketing promotion company that can take your idea and help you find an investor.

Steven Julian: Yep.

Willis Whiteside: So that’s probably the main. I love it. Just to know that.

Steven Julian: And Noah, I think, so as we’re talking with Willis, I think I can see why you guys partner together so well. A lot of his answers are similar and at least in the same passion and help.

Noah McNeely: We’ve learned a lot of the same life lessons in our careers, I think. Do what you’re really good at and find other people that are really good at the things that you aren’t good at. I think that’s, you know. You naturally gravitate toward people that have similar philosophies, and I think that’s why we work together.

Steven Julian: And I wanted to ask you this question, and then Willis, if you want to jump in and comment, you. certainly can. But, you know, I think one of the, and again, it’s a repeating theme of this show, but it’s good to go back to it, and it’s good to say it in different ways and in different contexts. One of the things that Willis is describing that you guys work together and that there are other people who will do other certain things, website design or marketing help. One of the benefits of an inventor, I don’t want the inventors and entrepreneurs listening thinking, oh, woe is me. How can I overcome this huge thing? You guys are able to help them be more nimble, agile, flexible. Talk a little bit about that.

Noah McNeely: Agile and flexible ourselves in the sense t

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: