Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Is your product-based business ready for small-scale manufacturing? Then you’re probably ready to look into the world of 3D printing. 3D printers is something that everybody has heard about. Very few people understand it. Well, today we’ve got two leaders from one of the biggest 3D printing resource companies in America. next on Product Genius.

Allison Zhu: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Steven Julian: Yet again, that’s my line. Yes, it is your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Welcome to another, maybe one day soon, and maybe if we buy the award ourselves and create it ourselves, award-winning edition of Product Genius. To my right, the intrepid producer, Jody Smith, across the table from me is the wonderful host, the man who makes all of this possible. Giving us. the layer, letting us do the show, and being the guy who helps people develop their product and bring it to market. He is one of the geniuses of Product Genius. Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Well, good afternoon.

Steven Julian: Good afternoon. It is afternoon as we record this.

Noah McNeely: It’s afternoon here, and it’s probably afternoon somewhere.

Steven Julian: It’s always afternoon somewhere.

Noah McNeely: That’s true.

Steven Julian: The other thing that I believe is a first in the last relaunch of this show. We have guests in the studio.

Noah McNeely: Yeah.

Steven Julian: I think I’m correct in that. I’m turning to the producer. This is the first time. No, it’s not. Okay. The second time.

Noah McNeely: They were brave enough to let us blindfold them and lead them into the lair.

Steven Julian: That’s right. The first guest was the former host of the show. Yes. Tiffany Krumman. And her father. Yes. Shout out Tiffany. Opu Probiotics. As of the recording of this show, launched their new. Launch their new warehouse space. That’s right. So we’re very excited about that.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I actually helped them build a sign for that.

Steven Julian: Yeah, very nice. So go to Opu Probiotics and get your order today. But no, we have actual guests. See, that’s my point. Okay, Jody was being a producer and doing well. We are excited and thrilled to welcome into the lair of Product Quick Start and on to the show of Product Genius, Michael and Allison Zhu of Z Labs 3D. Guys, welcome to the studio. Sup. Sup. All right. Well, that’s it. Okay. That was Michael and Allison. We’ll catch you next time. Michael and Allison, you guys are the owners of Zlabs 3D. Michael, why don’t you tell us what Zlabs is and what you guys do?

Michael Zhu: We’re one of the largest FDM3 print shops in the Southeast. We have about 86 printers at the moment, and we’re heavily data-driven. Try to make the whole entire process as efficient as possible, whether it’s for our clients, brokers that we work with, things like that.

Steven Julian: Allison, who are some of the main people that come to Z Labs and give a little sample maybe of the spectrum of the types of jobs that you’re doing, both small and large? Be creative in your answer of the spectrum of what you guys can do for people.

Allison Zhu: I’ll be real honest with you. It’s all walks of life and all types of people. So, I mean, we get big boys that rhyme with like Bamazon and Nesma.

Steven Julian: Wait a minute. I need a second on that. Oh, okay. I think I know who you’re talking about.

Allison Zhu: But then we get little guys, you know, we get some dude from the internet that we don’t have a face for and it’s… About as absurd and horrible as you can imagine.

Noah McNeely: 3D printing. I can imagine quite a lot.

Steven Julian: And 3D printing is one of those things where it’s been around for a little while and it was this cool thing that made everybody remember their favorite things on Star Trek, food replicators and things like that. But what are some of the uses that businesses are–and Noah, you’ve talked about it in terms of prototypes. That’s one of the main things in product development. But what are some of the main uses? like some of those companies like–Amazon and the internet guys. What are the main uses? people or just, again, spectrum of uses people are coming to you for?

Allison Zhu: So I’d say probably one of the more common things that we see from all different types of larger companies. is we’ll do a lot of jigs and PETG, you know, things for assembling cars and lining things up and then they snap it off and put in whatever is supposed to be behind it, you know. We get plugs and gaskets and different types of materials for assembly or sometimes permanent fixtures. Like I know we do some crop dusting stuff and it’s just a plug that stays on the end of something. We get cases for smoking paraphernalia pretty frequently, actually.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, me too.

Allison Zhu: Yeah, it’s a saturated market, but it’s a lucrative one for some of our drop shipping clients. And then we get, you know, like bag of ****, you know, all the time.

Steven Julian: As much as I want to go down that path.

Allison Zhu: I have a picture if you want.

Noah McNeely: Not necessary. We’ll do that off air. That is one of those rare products I have never worked on.

Allison Zhu: Yes.

Steven Julian: Me neither. And as an independent financial advisor in my day job, they have not yet IPO’d. So glad to say that. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Michael, how did you guys find your way into this? What were you doing? That? led into you getting involved in 3D printing.

Michael Zhu: So I was working for something Black & Decker at the time. And essentially, there was a project that I was working on that required an adapter that didn’t exist. And instead of paying like thousands and thousands of dollars to get one single piece made, it was in 2014, towards the end of 2014. I saw that there were 3D printers and I was like, oh yeah, I saw something on Facebook about that back when Facebook was cool. So I got one, put the machine together and made the adapter. And then I guess everyone at the company huddled around and just saw this little machine sitting on my cabinet. And everyone started like, oh, you’re the 3D printing guy now. Random things, hooked a printer home, started printing all the stuff that people wanted me to, and then it kind of just grew into this vacationing now. Wow.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, and I think that’s actually, Michael and I met years ago, probably when you were just starting that out, and I was just starting Product Quickstart at the time, and I think you printed something for me, and then we, maybe over the years, we’ve done other things through one of these brokers we talked about, maybe. We’re not going to mention who they are for various reasons. But we kind of lost track of each other for a long time. And we reconnected recently. And it was really cool for me to go from knowing this guy who had a 3D printer, I think it was in your basement or whatever, to our spare bedroom. So then I came and actually toured your shop a few weeks ago. And there’s like machines everywhere, all sorts of machines doing all sorts of things. It’s like, you know, it’s like a sweatshop, but it’s all robots. Pretty amazing thing. And you’ve got a team of actual human beings too. They’re all really cool guys. It’s nice to meet them as well.

Michael Zhu: Very passionate people.

Noah McNeely: I mean, you guys were said you are one of the largest FDM type 3D printing outfits in the country, right?

Michael Zhu: Definitely the largest.

Allison Zhu: I don’t know if we have the most number of machines. We don’t have the most number of machines, but I can confidently say we’re the highest throughput, like one of the highest. throughputs.

Noah McNeely: You produce the most parts then, which is kind of more important, right? Yeah.

Allison Zhu: Yeah. It’s probably at least 10,000 parts a month and there are all different sizes and shapes and stuff.

Noah McNeely: So I walk through there and all these machines are running. They’re all making sort of all sorts of stuff. And I think because you guys are so big, that gets you into some of the stuff you were talking about. that’s so diverse. And you mentioned things I never even thought about using 3D paint for just hearing this conversation. Well, not bag of ****.

Allison Zhu: I think that’s the first idea for Buzz people.

Steven Julian: I know what the intro is going to be. Noah, I want to ask you, we’ll have to be bleeped again on our intro. That’s going to be blag of beeps. So Noah, I want to ask you, you know, you have, I want to bring you into this conversation rather than you asking them a question. I want you to answer the question of.

Noah McNeely: No, instead of you asking another stupid question.

Steven Julian: That’s not what I said. When people are developing their product, what are the main reasons why someone? would use a 3D printer? You’ve talked about prototypes. What are some of the other things that 3D printing really is changing the game in terms of developing products?

Noah McNeely: Prototyping is how I’ve, until recently, kind of always looked at it. It’s like, okay, well, 3D printer is great because I don’t have to go run the CNC machine and spend… As Michael was saying, thousands of dollars to make this one-off thing, a 3D printer. You can make a thing, you can break it, you can make another one, you can adjust it, you can make another one. So that’s how I’ve looked at things. But more recently, and actually through conversations with Michael and Allison, I’ve come to realize there are people that use 3D printing really as their manufacturing process, especially if they’re a smaller company or maybe. They’re just starting out. And this is something I really not thought about from that perspective until recently.

Steven Julian: Yeah. So Michael and Allison, have you worked with–and again, you can change the names to protect the innocent or promote them because they’re good clients and you want to shout them out. So have you guys had any? product developers or people who maybe it’s their first run or maybe they might not need to go to the next level past 3D printing that they are actually–and you kind of talked about parts. You’ve talked about caps and certain parts on certain things. But has somebody–You’ve been using your services to actually do the actual manufacturing of almost the entire product that they’re selling on market.

Allison Zhu: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve got one guy, he’s one of the smoking case guys, and he’s a very loyal customer. We’ve been working with him for about three years now, actually. And it took us a while to kind of rise to his expectations because he was printing at home on like probably five or six printers. When you’re doing it yourself and you don’t think about scrap rates and other people doing things on their machines differently than how you’re doing it, it can be a little bit of pushback between a manufacturer like us. A do-it-yourselfer because you’ve kind of spent all of that time up front to dial in settings and get it just right. But then it’s like asking a manufacturer to step. in and read your mind sometimes. But yeah, we produce a lot of his product line. He still produces some at home and he’ll keep inventory for that purpose. But he outsources just about everything. He doesn’t even see the product that we ship to his customers unless they send him feedback.

Steven Julian: Let me ask this as a follow-up question too, and this is a little bit of looking into the future or also looking into the future of your company. As you look at the markets around you and as you look at the world around you, what is not yet really looking to 3D printing to help their business that you would go, boy, we could really help? Because it does seem like, and I loved your randomness, Allison, as you were answering the question before of this little cap and, okay, I’ll say it too, a whole bag of ****. So what–we’ve all now said it except for Jody who will put it on the tagline or something. But are there certain types of things–because it just seems so eclectic and it just seems like there’s so much. But is there anything you’re? like, you know, I would like a lawn mowing company to call me because, boy, I could really help with this. Is there anything you see that–We want to get involved in this because we see such an opportunity for us to do some production for you guys.

Michael Zhu: Gosh, that’s hard.

Steven Julian: That’s a good question or a hard question.

Michael Zhu: That’s really, like, if you can think about it.

Steven Julian: Yeah, if you can dream it, you can do it.

Michael Zhu: Yeah, I mean, that’s part of the, one of the strengths of 3D printing, especially FDM, which you can make functional parts out of. You can make these things that are, like, you only need, like, 100 units or just for, like, a very small niche. But you know it will serve them well.

Steven Julian: That’s what this is for. So I’m going to bring an example and you guys tell me if I’m crazy.

Noah McNeely: So one of my–Well, you might be–We all know.

Steven Julian: We all know. I know.

Noah McNeely: I know. You need to separate those two elements.

Steven Julian: I’m going to give you an example of something that just came into my mind. I know I’m crazy. You can either agree with the fact that I’m crazy according to Noah. Or you can go, no, I could see it. So one of my favorite people to follow online is Mike Rowe, which shows my age because I still think Facebook, it’s not cool, but it is useful for people my age. But Mike Rowe is such an interesting character and he’s so diverse and all that. And one of the things, he at one point wanted to do a bobblehead and he wanted to promote Made in the USA and he actually priced it out. Now, this is like 10 years ago. And he was like, I literally cannot produce a bobblehead. On American soil, I have to farm it out. And, you know, he did some other things and, you know, so, but he has found other things to do. So I’m looking at something like a bobblehead. Could a short run bobblehead run be done on a 3D printer and added the coil? Is that so? you could be like, hey, just to make my own bobblehead or just to make a small batch or maybe even a large batch is creating a bobblehead, creating. the pieces of a bobblehead. Is that something that could be done on a 3D printer?

Michael Zhu: It absolutely can, especially if it’s a resin printer. That’s actually what they’re good with is for those display type things like a bobblehead like you were talking about.

Steven Julian: So a Noah McNeely Product Genius bobblehead can be done in the works.

Allison Zhu: It wouldn’t be as durable as a traditional bobblehead. Exactly.

Steven Julian: That’s the only big difference. Yeah. Okay.

Michael Zhu: It’s also more cost effective for, you know, it’s like you said, like, it’s like, it’s like I said earlier as limited runs of things. Yes. Yeah. Definitely very strong.

Steven Julian: It would be durable enough to shake it a little bit. Yeah. But if you drop it on the floor, yeah, it might be done.

Allison Zhu: Right. Okay.

Steven Julian: Thank you for, thank you for producing some boundaries on my, on my dream. Noah. Ask a fantastic question.

Noah McNeely: Well, I had some until you said that. So I actually wrote down some questions, fortunately, so that when you sideswiped me with that, I was going to be ready. So if we talk about 3D printing as manufacturing, who, and you kind of answered this already, so who? is… 3D printing a good manufacturing solution for? And who’s it not good for? What’s that transition point? I think this is one of the things we’ve talked about. is you’ve got some clients who are like, you know, you’re kind of pushing the limits of it’s time to look at other solutions. How do you find that? What’s that look like?

Michael Zhu: It really depends. It really depends on what they’re looking for and the product that they’re trying to sell.

Allison Zhu: I think it might be better to talk about good examples of customers, most likely. So, I mean, if you’re talking about like a business, you know, usually it’s when you’re still having a relatively small number of sales, you know, or you don’t have room to hold a lot of inventory depending on what you’re working with. Like we have an active client right now where they’re making these fancy boxes for the inside of an airplane that I don’t really know exactly what it does because we aren’t privy to that information on the prototyping side. But I know he’s fitting a bunch of boards and electronics and lights and stuff in there. And so we’ve been. going through that iterative process with him, printing out new versions of the file every time he makes a revision to fit something in properly. And he’s not ready for like thousands of units because… It’s getting sold to airports and there’s just not that many airports. So his market, like in terms of number of clients that are in the market to serve, is limited compared to other markets. So he only needs like 40 or 50 units at a time. But, you know, when you think about how much would it cost for that to go overseas to an injection, you know, he’s not ready for it. Sure.

Noah McNeely: Especially if he’s making changes.

Allison Zhu: Yeah, exactly.

Noah McNeely: And evolving the versions.

Allison Zhu: Yep.

Noah McNeely: And second question or core aware, addition. Additional question. 3D printing lets you make things that you really can’t make with injection molding in some cases. Like with injection molding, you know, if we’re going to go out and make 5,000 or something in injection molding, I have to design that part to have draft and to have, no, what we call undercuts and all these sort of things. But in 3D printing, you don’t have, you have. some other limitations, but you don’t have a lot of those limitations. So you can actually make. What would once have been an impossible part in plastic and ABS or PETG or whatever, right?

Allison Zhu: Yeah, actually, I would say that 3D printing is a good companion with injection because a lot of times the designs, especially for larger objects, the designs that are suited for injection are less suited for FDM printing because it creates a little bit of a logistical nightmare in supporting and removing and post-processing.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. Probably parts I’ve sent you. Yeah. We’re used to it though. Because a lot of times, you know, I’m designing for injection molding, but we’re not ready to make them all. Exactly. So, you know, I sent you a whole bunch recently, which turned out great. And we’re assembling that now, but I can. I have 3D printers here, nothing like what you guys have, but I was like, yeah, I don’t want to make this here because pulling the supports off, that’s going to take me all day. So I put that off on you guys and thank you.

Allison Zhu: It’s okay.

Steven Julian: We’re speaking with Michael and Allison Zhu. They are. with Z Labs 3D. They have over 80 printers. Allison stated with a lot of confidence that as of this recording, you are leading the nation in basically output of what you’re doing or throughput, as you said. So here’s the question I want to ask. 3D printers have been around. Michael, you shared the story of kind of getting started about 10, 11 years ago, just kind of fiddling with one. And so with my day job of what I do, it was this massive 3D printers are here. They’re going to take over the world. They’re going to be amazing. Everybody’s going to have one on their desk. And then it kind of went quiet, although it didn’t go quiet in what you guys do. It did not go quiet in the product development world. So here’s what I want to ask. From the first day that somebody first heard of a 3D printer, what has changed for the better in the printers you guys have and what they’re able to do now? Then where they started when somebody last read an article in Barron’s or, you know, Tech World and saw the, oh, and everybody talked about, you know, how has it developed to this point? Or are they just kind of the same as they’ve been, but just a little bit? But yeah, so there have been some major changes. Talk about how 3D printers have improved to this point.

Michael Zhu: I mean, back then, 3D printers used to be fully manual. If the bed’s out of alignment, you had to adjust everything about it. And there’s a bolt that’s just off a little bit. You have to take it apart completely just to fix that one bolt. Things were very much, had to be almost perfect. Where now, printers nowadays, such as the Bamboo Lab printers, they could compensate with a lot of the imperfections. They could come out of the factory with the bed slightly skewed. Because they have automatic leveling, things like that, they’re able to adjust on the fly. So basically when you turn it on, it can just calibrate everything.

Steven Julian: So a little self-diagnostic ability and therefore higher output. So Allison, I’m going to ask you this question. It’s an incredibly unfair question. So you can yell or curse at me if you’d like when I ask this question. So Michael kind. of answered how they’ve improved to this point. Can you look ahead? Can you make any kind of predictions of? Where do 3D–or maybe just let me ask it this way. As someone who’s using 3D printers as your business to help other businesses, what needs to be developed in 3D printing? What’s around the corner? What are you hoping? will the next generation or two generations or further down the line that 3D printers can do? Is it using more products and using more elements in what it can print? But what are some of those–what are the answers to that? And Noah, I’m going to ask you the same question as someone who uses it on a smaller scale.

Allison Zhu: As someone who is the only person in our building who doesn’t actually use a 3D printer, I think I’m the best person for this.

Steven Julian: I love it.

Allison Zhu: Looking at trends and looking at the way that the home 3D printer market is changing because we get a lot of customers that have their own printers and we answer a lot of questions from people. 3D printing is getting more accessible to the average consumer, which transfers to… Some R&D guy in a business. Usually there’s just one. If you’re lucky, you have a couple of them, you know. But with that being said, the only way for mass manufacturing to really keep up is to be able to go bigger than the home printer, to be able to go faster than the home printer, which they are getting really fast. It’s crazy. So I think the way I see it going is bigger and faster, you know.

Steven Julian: Michael, as the person who uses the 3D, or who’s put them together and taken them apart, would you agree with that answer? And would you add anything to that?

Michael Zhu: I’m not sure about really the faster portion of it, more just removing the remaining limitations. It doesn’t matter which kind of 3D printer it is, it’s just removing the limitations that they have.

Steven Julian: That was a very engineering answer. Did you notice that?

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I like Michael a lot. And you noticed earlier. he said it depends. That’s like my favorite answer.

Steven Julian: Yes. So Noah, would you add anything? What would you like? 3D printers? Sorry, I cut you off there, Michael.

Noah McNeely: So as someone that uses 3D printers, but not nearly to the extent that Michael and Allison have optimized, for me, The part of the process that I would love to see improved is the sort of upfront prep process, what they call the slicer software, where you take your model you’ve made in 3D CAD and you export it to this other software package. And I think it’s getting better. And you guys maybe use stuff that’s better than what I use, but you have to set the file up the right way. You kind of have to do a little trial and error to understand, okay, how… What type of support should I use? How should I angle this part to minimize that and make sure they’re going to come out? Well, how am I going to get the best finish on this part? You kind of have to figure a lot of that out on your own. I’d love to see the intelligence of that software get to the point where it’s easier for a layperson to use. Actually, one of my old 3D printers, I told you guys, I’ve given to my teenage daughter, and I’m teaching her how to. use Cura, which is one of the slicer softwares, and it’s fine. A lot of times she asks questions like, well, how do you know to do this and how do you know to do that? Well, sometimes I just have to print it and see how bad it turns out, you know? And that’s not ideal, but I’m hoping that… That intelligence will improve every time.

Allison Zhu: I love that you bring that up, too. So we have daily meetings with our printer techs. We have two printer techs working underneath Michael, and I just sit in for funsies. And one of the biggest gripes that these two very talented gentlemen always bring up is slicing shouldn’t be an art. It should be a science. And turning it into something that’s methodical and reproducible with good recommendations by a piece of software, ideally. That is where the big hurdle is, I think.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, it would be great if, even if it would just sort of yell at me that, hey, you sure you want to print it this way, doofus? Because this is what’s probably going to happen here. You know, that would be helpful.

Steven Julian: I think we found a, I think we found a industry scoop around 3D printing as we’ve sat around here talking around the table. So I guess Michael and Allison, let me ask you this question. And Noah, I am going to come to you because I kind of wanted to start this question with you, but I’m going to ask them first. And again, this might be a question. Really, I’m on a quest now to see if you guys will curse me out or get mad at me. I don’t think I will. I think it’s a fairly decent question. So again, as a reminder, most of our listenership are people who are trying to bring their product to market. If they have never used a 3D printer to this point, it’s still an idea. It’s still something they’re just kind of doodling on a napkin or whatever. Can you walk me through the experience of what, you know, what would someone’s experience be in coming into Z Labs 3D? They’re still in the idea stage. or it’s someone who’s trying to get their manufacturing off the ground or they’re looking to find this one part. I’ll give you a little bit of. leeway on that, but what will they experience if they, you know, if they… I don’t know if you take retail off the street, but just kind of walk me through the process. Hey, I’ve never worked with you guys before. What can I expect in working with you? And Noah, I’ve got a different question for you. I got this, I guess. Yeah, this sounds like more up your alley.

Allison Zhu: Yeah, I do most of our intake and our customer facing, so I’m definitely the person.

Steven Julian: Hi, welcome to Z Labs 3D. How can I help you?

Allison Zhu: Essentially, yeah. No, I mean, honestly, if they’ve already got… A digital model, that makes things easier across the board. But if they’re still in that shower thought phase where they have maybe a jerry-rigged physical prototype that they’ve made from a paper towel tube or some random stuff they found around the house, that gets a bit more challenging.

Noah McNeely: You’ve met some of my clients.

Allison Zhu: Oh, yes. So, I mean, it depends. I will stick with that answer. It does depend. But if they’ve already got a model or at least some measurements so that we can quickly capture. It’s pretty. straightforward for us. We plug it into the software and then make the digital if we need to. But if it’s really advanced and it might not be the fastest modeling job, we try to outsource that possibly to Product Quick Start or other designers, depending on the scope. Pretty much don’t ask a lot of questions, honestly. We figure out, okay, does it have a use case we need to know about? Should it be durable? Does it have to withstand certain types of forces like torque or impact, things like that? If it’s really just for fitment, then we typically push for the cheapest, quickest option because it is a simple prototype.

Steven Julian: And I’m going to jump on that. That’s a great explanation of somebody who comes in with an idea. Talk also about the business owner who, hey, I need to create a cap to go over this hole in my product. So talk about that. They’ve got a product, and you kind of talked about it. That’s one of your main things is, hey, fabrication of one part. What does that look like? They just come in with stuff and, I need help. We’re getting this. to not leak.

Allison Zhu: Yeah. I mean, we do a little bit of reverse engineering right now. Michael’s the guy that does that. So with that being said, since he’s also a business owner. He doesn’t have as much time to do that as we’d like. We recently actually kind of focused our business more towards the manufacturing and away from the design work. So you’ll be seeing more of our clients for that reason.

Noah McNeely: Send them with the paper towel tubes. Yes. I love to meet people with paper towel tubes.

Allison Zhu: Once we can get them from like the help, I need the reverse engineering, or I need this thing made, then that’s when once we have that digital asset, or at least we have them to a point where it’s more easy to create and it’s more. Then that’s when we get in and we’re like, okay, here’s our recommendations on production.

Steven Julian: Noah, now I’m going to turn to you for a second. And one of the things you are so patient with me about on this show is I’ve never brought any product to market. I’m just a financial advisor by day who loves to flap my gums. and really enjoys your dry sense of humor. So with that as a backdrop, I have this picture in my mind that you’re working with clients who Almost view, like have never used a 3D printer before and you’re going to involve that in the prototyping or whatever, look and develop the product. And I think there’s almost this view of the general public that 3D printers are magic. We’re just a step away from Star Trek where it can just appear out of nothing. So am I wrong in that? Am I naive?

Noah McNeely: Well, my clients come, there’s a wide spectrum of understanding of the real world. It ranges from the, hey, I watched Iron Man and he made an Iron Man suit with a 3D printer and lasers in like 12 minutes. Can you do that? Nope. Can’t do that.

Steven Julian: That was a montage.

Noah McNeely: All the way to the other end of the spectrum where people have self-educated on YouTube. And they’re coming in and it’s like, hey, I bought this printer and it does this and this and they’re teaching me stuff. So there’s a wide range of people out there. What was the question?

Steven Julian: Well, I. really wanted to just pontificate about that. So I was going to ask you, how has the 3D printer, because you, again, you said, I have a couple of them. I have a few of them. How has it changed? the product development? Process for the, with, as you’re working with your clients and, and how do you, you know, how do you see it continuing or growing or kind of staying right where it’s at?

Noah McNeely: So I see, and actually I’m going to have a version of this question for Allison and Michael too, but what I’ve seen, the first 3D printer I had was a pain in the neck to use. I hated using it. It was one of these very manual things and it’s sitting in my basement in pieces right now and it will never be put back together. But as things have evolved, it used to like way back in the day, you could buy a Stratasys machine like $25,000 or whatever. And it was really good. It did most of the stuff. It’s not near as good as the $600 machine I could buy today in a lot of ways, you know, in terms. of no worries

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: