233-3D Scanning for Inventors and Product Development

Episode

233

3D Scanning for Inventors and Product Development

“It’s a very powerful tool if you know how to use it.”

What if you need to design an invention around an existing object—but there’s no CAD file anywhere? Noah and Steven explore 3D scanning, the reverse-engineering counterpart to 3D printing, and how inventors can use it to bring real-world geometry into product development. From capturing human body shapes and recreating undocumented legacy parts to scanning an everyday canister so a new product fits it precisely, they explain where 3D scanning can save time, where the software work gets tricky, and why this increasingly affordable technology is becoming a powerful tool for developing and prototyping inventions.

Core Topics for this episode:

(possibly) Obscure pop culture references you might hear during this episode of Product Genius include Star Trek mirror universe; Reverse Flash; The Flash; Bizarro Superman; Batman; Owlman; Edgar Degas; Little Dancer; Scan the World

Key Takeaways Include:

Capture Real-World Geometry

Use Scanning for Complex Interfaces

Turn Scan Data Into Engineered Solutions

Listen here:

Episode Blog

3D Scanning for Inventors: Bringing the Physical World Back Into CAD

If 3D printing turns a digital model into a physical object, 3D scanning does something wonderfully backwards: it starts with the physical object and brings its geometry into the computer.

Steven calls it 3D printing’s evil twin. Noah prefers the Star Trek mirror-universe analogy. Either way, the important part is that 3D scanning has become an increasingly practical tool for inventors and product developers—and it can solve problems that are surprisingly difficult to handle any other way.

In this Flash of Genius mini-episode, Noah McNeely and Steven Julian explore what 3D scanning actually does, why the technology has become more accessible, and several ways inventors can use it during product development.

From Object to Digital Geometry

Traditional product development usually begins in CAD.

An engineer or industrial designer creates an engineered digital model, exports the appropriate data, and then uses processes such as 3D printing, CNC machining, or molding to create something physical.

3D scanning reverses the direction.

You begin with an existing physical object.

A scanner captures its surface geometry as a dense collection of points in three-dimensional space. That scan data can then be processed in specialized software and used as the basis for digital geometry.

In simple terms:

3D printing goes from computer to object.

3D scanning goes from object to computer.

That sounds simple.

The actual workflow can be considerably more interesting.

Scanning Is Only the Beginning

Modern handheld 3D scanners can look a little like unusual cameras with multiple lenses or sensors.

You move the scanner around the object while the system tracks the surface and records geometry.

Move too quickly and the scanner may lose its position.

Reflective, transparent, dark, repetitive, or otherwise difficult surfaces can create additional challenges.

And once the scan is finished, you generally do not have a perfect engineering model ready to manufacture.

You have scan data.

That data often needs to be cleaned, aligned, repaired, simplified, converted, or rebuilt into usable CAD surfaces and solids.

This is the part Noah describes as the occasional pain in the neck.

The scanner may capture the shape.

Turning that shape into good engineering data still requires skill.

Reverse Engineering Old Parts

One of the most obvious applications for inventors is reverse engineering.

Imagine you need to develop a replacement component for a machine built in the 1940s.

There are no CAD files.

There may not even be useful drawings.

But you have the original physical part.

A 3D scanner can capture its geometry and provide a digital reference from which a replacement can be designed.

The same approach can help when developing a new product that must interface with an existing object whose geometry is difficult to measure manually.

Instead of trying to recreate every curve with calipers and rulers, you can capture the real object.

That can save enormous amounts of time.

Designing Around Existing Products

Noah describes a recent project involving a common canister that needed to fit precisely inside a client’s new product.

The canister was readily available, but the team did not have engineering geometry for it.

And it was more complicated than a simple cylinder.

So Noah scanned the actual canister.

The resulting data provided the geometry needed to design the new product around it, allowing the real-world item to drop into the client’s product correctly.

This is an excellent example of where 3D scanning shines.

The inventor is not necessarily trying to reproduce the scanned object.

The scan becomes a digital reference around which something entirely new can be developed.

Capturing Human Geometry

Human bodies are another obvious application because people are full of inconvenient curves.

Suppose you are designing a product that must fit around an arm, hand, head, foot, or other part of the body.

Traditional measurements can tell you length, circumference, width, and other dimensions.

But they may not capture the complex surface geometry that affects comfort and fit.

A 3D scan can.

Designers can scan representative users and use that geometry to understand how a product should interface with the body.

Depending on the application, multiple scans may be needed to represent different body sizes and shapes.

This can be particularly useful for:

Wearable products
Medical products
Ergonomic handles
Protective equipment
Custom-fit components
Braces and supports
Human-interface products

The goal is not merely to make something that technically fits.

It is to understand the actual physical surface the product needs to work with.

Preserving Artifacts and Sculptures

3D scanning also has uses far beyond conventional engineering.

Noah mentions Scan the World, a project that captures sculptures, artifacts, and other culturally significant objects and makes 3D models available digitally.

That allows people to study, reproduce, reinterpret, and preserve objects that may be located thousands of miles away.

Noah has a version of Edgar Degas’ Little Dancer sculpture in his office that originated from scan data. He brought the model into his software and used CNC machining to create a physical interpretation of it.

That illustrates an interesting bridge between technologies.

An object can be scanned.

The scan becomes digital geometry.

That geometry can be modified.

Then it can return to the physical world through 3D printing, CNC machining, or another manufacturing process.

Physical → Digital → Physical.

That loop creates enormous possibilities.

3D Scanning Is Becoming More Accessible

Not long ago, useful 3D scanning equipment could cost tens of thousands of dollars.

That limited the technology to specialized engineering firms, metrology labs, large manufacturers, and other organizations that could justify the investment.

The cost has dropped significantly.

Noah compares the current state of 3D scanning to where 3D printing was roughly a decade ago.

The technology is moving from highly specialized equipment toward something more businesses and individual professionals can realistically use.

As prices continue falling and software improves, inventors should expect scanning to become an increasingly normal part of the product-development toolbox.

Scanning Does Not Replace Engineering

One misconception worth avoiding is the idea that scanning an object instantly creates a production-ready CAD model.

It usually does not.

A scan captures what exists.

Engineering defines what should exist.

Those are different things.

An old component may be worn.

A molded plastic part may have draft angles, shrinkage, or manufacturing artifacts.

A hand-sculpted surface may contain irregularities.

A scanned human body may include movement or soft-tissue variation.

The engineer still has to interpret the data.

Sometimes the scan is used directly as a reference.

Sometimes surfaces are rebuilt over it.

Sometimes key dimensions are extracted and a cleaner parametric model is created.

The scanner provides information.

Engineering turns that information into a manufacturable solution.

Know When Scanning Is Worth It

Not every object needs to be scanned.

If the geometry is a simple rectangular block with a few holes, a pair of calipers and ten minutes in CAD may be faster.

Scanning becomes especially valuable when the physical geometry is:

Complex
Organic
Difficult to measure
Historically undocumented
Human-shaped
Sculpted
Irregular
Required as an accurate interface for a new design

The right question is not:

“Can we scan this?”

It is:

“Will scanning give us useful geometry faster or more accurately than rebuilding it another way?”

That is the product-development decision.

The Product Genius Take

3D scanning is a powerful bridge between the physical and digital worlds.

For inventors, it can help reverse engineer existing parts, design around products that have no CAD data, capture complex human geometry, preserve unusual shapes, and create digital references that would be painfully difficult to measure manually.

But scanning is not magic.

The raw scan is often only the starting point.

Good results still require cleanup, interpretation, CAD work, and an understanding of how the final product will actually be manufactured.

Used correctly, though, 3D scanning can save tremendous time and unlock designs that would otherwise be difficult to create.

So yes, Steven: maybe it is the Reverse Flash to 3D printing’s Flash.

Just preferably without the evil alternate universe.

Or, read the full transcript here:

[START]

Steven Julian: Welcome, welcome, welcome. It is Flash of Genius. That’s right. It’s a little quicker, a little faster. That’s why I talk faster. We are going to cover a topic, but cover it quickly. Across the table, Noah McNeely, today’s Flash of Genius, 3D Printing’s Evil Twin. I don’t know why the music’s still playing, Noah, but you are going to get into it. What do you mean by that?

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so do you remember that episode of Star Trek where they went to the mirror universe? Yes. And everybody that was good was evil and everybody that was evil was good?

Steven Julian: Absolutely.

Noah McNeely: Well, 3D scanning is like that to 3D printing. Not really. It’s not evil.

Steven Julian: It’s not evil.

Noah McNeely: It is a pain in the neck sometimes. It’s opposite.

Steven Julian: It’s different. It’s very unique and almost otherworldly from 3D printing.

Noah McNeely: Right. So 3D printing, you start with an engineered… And then you export it out as this little file, which is really just a bunch of points in space. And then you can send it to a 3D printer and you get an object. 3D scanning is the other way around. You start with an object and you have this. device, which they used to be. these huge things like cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now they’re much cheaper and it looks kind of like a camera with a whole bunch of lenses on it. And you point it at your object and you move it around. You have to move real slow or else it kind of loses where it is. And it creates this file, this computer file with all these points in space. Then you can take that into software. This is where the pain in the neck part comes. You take that into software and you can convert that into an engineered part. So you could, let’s say that for some reason we needed an engineered surface model of your nose. I could do it with a 3D scanner.

Steven Julian: I say we do it. Let’s go. Let’s start.

Noah McNeely: Then we can 3D print your notes.

Steven Julian: I love it. So, because the reverse part is you go from an actual physical object to a file, but then you then use that file to 3D print it back out to what you need it to be.

Noah McNeely: You can, or more commonly it would be used in things. like, let’s say you were developing an object that needed to fit on the arm of somebody, or then you might scan a number of arms and get that geometry. Or let’s say you had a really old thing that there’s no computer data on, like something that was made like in the 1940s and you need to make a replacement for it or something that interfaces with it. You could use a 3D scanner to capture that and then build around it.

Steven Julian: So right now, 3D scanning is very specialized in its usage. Is that fair to say? Or very unique? You’re looking at something that’s almost one of a kind and then wanting to… Take it from the physical world to the digital world so you can then come back out on the 3D printing world.

Noah McNeely: Well, not always just 3D printing, but for a variety of reasons. So 3D scanning, it’s used for a lot of things. It’s kind of where 3D printing was maybe 10 years ago in the sense that it’s just, I would say in the last four or five years, started to get to the cost level where a lot of different types. of industries start using it. There’s actually this group called Scan the World, which is pretty cool. Not the whole world, but they go around and they scan these artifacts and famous statues and stuff. So you can actually go onto their website and you can download 3D models of these famous things. I actually have here in my office, you’ve seen it for a while now, this carving of… The Little Dancer. Yeah, an Edgar Degas sculpture of a little dancer that was captured with a 3D scanner by the Scan the World people. And I pulled it into my software and I… I cut a version of it on the CNC machine.

Steven Julian: Okay, so let me ask, let me kind of try to land the ship quickly because it is flash of genius. How do you see this being used in the world of product development, in the world of entrepreneurship and prototyping and things like that?

Noah McNeely: So recently I did a project where we have to take this, let’s just say this can of spray stuff. that’s a common. Very common item. You can buy them, but we didn’t have the geometry for it. And it was. more complicated than just a cylinder. I actually took the 3D scanner and did a scan of this thing. And then we built the product design around that so that now you could take this canister and drop it in the client’s product. So that’s one way where it might be used by an inventor entrepreneur.

Steven Julian: Now that we’ve come to near the end of the show, am I allowed to bring up potential issues I’ve had with how you’ve handled this topic?

Noah McNeely: Well, I can’t say no now.

Steven Julian: See how I do that?

Noah McNeely: See how that’s slightly annoying? No, I’d rather not.

Steven Julian: Yeah, okay, we’ll just end the show. I never have a problem with a Star Trek reference. That is a great reference. But the show is called Flash of Genius. We should have referenced Flash’s arch nemesis, Reverse Flash, right? So the 3D scanning and 3D printing is Flash, Reverse Flash. Although…

Noah McNeely: It was still a mirror universe kind of deal. Absolutely. He ran so fast that he went to another universe and met evil him and all sorts of problems happened.

Steven Julian: Right. And so, yeah, so you could, we could, and then that led to Bizarro, right? Bizarro Superman, all that kind of stuff. Not to mention the, it’s possible.

Noah McNeely: it just became lazy writing after a while for comic book people. Oh, let’s just reverse them. Instead of Batman, it’ll be Owlman.

Steven Julian: Up is down, down is up. And again, to be clear, neither of 3D scanning or printing is evil, although sometimes 3D scanning is a pain in the butt. Yes. But the end result is not a pain in the butt.

Noah McNeely: No, it’s a very powerful tool if you know how to use it.

Steven Julian: And the other thing that’s not a pain in the butt is Noah McNeely and Product Quickstart. He’s here to help you bring your product to market. And so for Noah, for Jody, this is Steven talking quickly to end the show quickly. Thank you for listening to Flash of Genius.

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely:

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