Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Announcer Lady: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius, the down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Steven Julian: Hey, that’s my line. Yes, it’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Welcome to another, hopefully one day soon, award-winning edition of Product Genius. Yes, we are coming to you live with a studio audience, no less, from the lair of Product Quick Start. With me, as always, to my right is the intrepid producer, Jody Smith. And across the table from me, he who must be listened to. Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, good afternoon.

Steven Julian: Yeah, it is afternoon as we record this. And we’re not alone. I said we already have a studio audience and we’ve got a guest on the show. We do.

Noah McNeely: So we have my intern is here who prefers not to be named on the podcast.

Steven Julian: Yes, yes. To protect the innocent.

Noah McNeely: Yes.

Steven Julian: And if you hear loud laughter in the background, it’s something else. It’s not the show. It’s something that he found funny. But yeah, no, we’re. yeah, I was excited to meet your new intern. Always, you know, always. Finding new young talent and helping them in their journey. And you also help people bring their products to market. And you also make great connections with other people who help other people with their areas of genius. And that’s why we’ve got Justin Chen of PickFu.com. Justin, welcome to the show.

Justin Chen: Hey, Steven. Hey, Noah. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely.

Steven Julian: So PickFu. P-I-C-K-F-U dot com. Tell everybody about PickFu and what you guys do.

Justin Chen: Sure. It’s a do-it-yourself consumer research platform. You could think of it as a digital focus group where you can ask your target audience questions about your ideas, your product concepts, anything that you want to get feedback on. So, for example, if you’re working on a new logo, you could put up a couple of different logo designs. And what’s going to happen is we’re going to go out and we’re going to find people and we’re. going to pay them to answer which one do they like. They’ll choose which one. They’ll give written explanations why and demographic information. And this is all super fast and incredibly helpful for any entrepreneur that’s trying to make a decision and goes through doubt, self-doubt about if they are making the right decision. And we built it as a tool for ourselves many, many years ago.

Steven Julian: Noah, as the captain of this show and as in the introduction, as everybody knows, you’ve been doing this for a little while. I think I know why you wanted to have Justin on the show, but tell everybody about why what he does is so important, interesting, unique, different, new. Kind of talk about what intrigues you about PickFu.

Noah McNeely: Yes, I’ll use a word I use occasionally, and that is that democratize. I feel like what PickFu does is they democratize access to real market research. And unlike just going around town and asking 10 people what do they think, PickFu actually does the hard work of slicing and dicing the population to get just the right respondents for what you’re after. And they do it at a really low cost. And, you know, Justin mentioned DIY. When I looked at the site, and Justin, this is one of the things I’m super excited about, is it’s not only DIY, but you make it really, really easy to be DIY. And I’m sure you’ll talk about that as we go forward. But yeah, I… I was really impressed with PickFu from the moment I saw it.

Steven Julian: Now, Justin, as people are listening to this show, I’m sure many of them, as we’re starting this, they’ve already gone to PickFu.com. But I wonder, I’m going to put you a little bit on the spot here and test your verbal skills. Kind of walk us through. If I’m an entrepreneur, an inventor, I’ve got a product and I’m working on something. What is it? Walk us through what it looks like. How does someone start and what can they expect when they first go to PickFu and maybe the first time they use it?

Justin Chen: Sure. So I’ll point out, first of all, that it’s free to create an account and everything is paid as you go. So there’s no subscriptions that you have to have to use the platform. So definitely just go to. PickFu.com, log in, and what you’re going to do is you’re going to create a poll. What we do are these very simple one question surveys, so to speak. And so if you go create a poll, you’ll ask a question, you’ll type in a question and you could say something like, you know, what do you think about this idea? Maybe you want to target moms and you want to say like, hey, if you’re a mom and you’ve got kids, do you ever have this issue? And then what you could do is you could describe the solution you’re building. You could put up a concept image or something like that. Maybe even a video of something that you’re planning to build and you choose your audience. So you could choose from 15 to 500 people. You could add different attributes such as, you know, like I said, mother or dog owners or coffee drinkers or anything like that. And from there, you just you hit checkout and you pay. It starts at a dollar per response. So 15 responses would be $15 and it scales from there. And you just hit go. And after you pay, we. immediately go out and start finding people. So don’t leave the page because within a matter of minutes, you’ll start seeing responses come in. And usually within 15-30 minutes, we’ll have one of these polls done for you. And so it’s super exciting. Grab your coffee, just watch the results come in. And you’re going to read through actual written responses of what they respond to your product concept about. Kind of in a nutshell, once you’re done, we have some AI summary as well of the responses. So, you know, a lot of times you might be asking 50 or 100 responses, and that’s a lot for any human to parse through. But it’s a really good use case for AI to summarize the themes and the takeaways for you to figure out how you can improve your product or whatever it is that you’re getting feedback on.

Steven Julian: Justin, I’ve got a pivot question, but before I get to that, I do want to ask. if I do this and I do this survey, you talked about if I ask for 50 or 100 responses, that might be hard to go through. However, I may be wanting to go. through them multiple times. Apart from the AI stuff, do I get an actual file that I’ve got specifically what people answered? Is there opportunities for people to add? Free answers of a sentence or two in response that I then get and can read through?

Justin Chen: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So you’ll see all the raw responses. Everyone is required actually to write a written explanation of why they made their choice. And so that is actually where most of the valuable insight is because they’re explaining their choices and usually giving you… Advice or direction for what to do next.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, for people early on, well, at any point in the business development process, product development process, I think that’s, you know, it’s not as important to know, do you like this, yes or no, but why they like it, what do they like about it, or what do they not like about it, because that’s actually actionable at that point.

Justin Chen: That’s right.

Steven Julian: So, Justin, my pivot question was going to be this, as I’m someone who’s coming and looking for these responses, and I’m glad you kind of mentioned AI help in cataloging or refining those responses, kind. of giving us some ideas. In the age of AI and bots and people going, well, I mean, obviously you’re getting real people to answer, which I then think leads to the legitimate question of, okay, how is PickFu finding these people? Give us an idea of the universe of people responding to these questions.

Justin Chen: Yeah, so we tap into the same consumer research panels that any large CPG would do. So if Kraft or Procter & Gamble were to do a long-form market research, They would work with a market research consultant who would create a long-form survey. They would then go reach out to one of these panel suppliers where there’s people who are being incentivized to answer these surveys. And then they would collect all that data. They would analyze and clean all that data. And then they would report it back to the client, which might be Kraft or Procter & Gamble. So what we try to do is we tap into all those same suppliers, but in a programmatic way. And we have our own layers of data quality and audience targeting on top of all of that. So we’re trying to take away all. that expertise that’s needed to formulate the surveys and source the survey responses and then also to clean the data, which is actually one of the hardest parts you can imagine when you’re paying people on the internet to answer things. So we have quite a rigorous process for making sure that the data is high quality. Bring it all to you in a very quick way so that you don’t have to interact with any kind of market research consultant. You’re doing it from the comfort of your home. You’re not talking to any actual strangers. We’re both introverted engineers, and that’s why we built this. We didn’t want to actually go to a coffee shop to get a feedback, and so we can do it from the comfort of our home.

Noah McNeely: I like you a lot.

Steven Julian: So, Noah, I’m going to bring you in and kind of ask you a question. Kind of how things have changed over the last 20, 25 years. Obviously, the speed of technology, the speed of being able to get these answers. I think it’s pretty obvious. people listening, long-time listeners this show recognize the value of this. For you, as someone who’s. been in the business for a while, besides just the speed and the lower cost.

Noah McNeely: Well, I think the speed and the lower cost lead to other things that make it important. I mean, you know, what Justin just described, it’s really something that. Procter & Gamble and these other companies, they would pay tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars to access this level of sliced and diced data. And the way PickFu is doing it to where you could do, let’s say you just want a small answer to a small question, spend $15, $50, $100, whatever it is, you can get that. And because it’s accessible and because it’s instantaneous almost, and because it’s cheaper than anything else, You can do this over and over again. So let’s say you’re really struggling or really just want to dial in something on your product or your logo or whatever. This can be an iterative process the way PickFu does it. And I’ve never seen anything that lets you do that that way before.

Justin Chen: Yeah, no, I mean, I think you’re really hitting the nail on the head that the speed really unlocks a new way of using. consumer insights because in the past, this process was so expensive and laborious that you would kind of only do it at… The end of a large process and you wouldn’t really be testing or gathering feedback along the development process. But now you can iterate on almost every single decision. So whether it’s fonts and colors and should I put an arrow here or not? All these small decisions could be tested, helping you refine the product. By the time you get to the end, it’s going to be completely polished. And what’s actually really interesting from what we’ve seen now, Is that a lot of these large CPG companies that do have consumer insights teams, we’re also getting a lot of usage within them because they have team members. Maybe it’s the marketing managers or the designers or the people doing social media. They don’t have access to the consumer insights team because they just want to get feedback on smaller things that they’re trying to put out. Those don’t warrant such a large research project.

Noah McNeely: And they don’t have to get upper management’s approval to spend $300 or $500.

Steven Julian: They can take it out of their budget, right? It’s just a line item in their budget and something instead of… Yeah, I love that. So the big boys are coming to you and utilizing what you have kind of tapped into. Noah, I did want to ask you this one specific question. As someone who helps people bring their product to market, what are the top one or two questions that as soon as you… Matt, Justin, Sal, PickFu, you’re like, holy cow, I’m going to use this. My clients need to use this. What are some of the top questions you would be asking?

Noah McNeely: Oh, my gosh. There’s so many different ones.

Steven Julian: I told you to pick two.

Noah McNeely: Is the price right and is the market right? I think those are a couple of big ones. Am I targeting the right market? And with PickFu’s system, you can select, okay, I only want these answers to come from people that make $100,000 a year or more or whatever that is. And you can see, okay, well, what would that market pay for this? And is it right? Is it wrong? Is it, et cetera. You may find that your market that you went in with the. preconceived notion is not the right market for your product at all. And I think PickFu can help you do that. Aside from all this stuff, is this the right feature? Does it even need to do this? Am I putting too much emphasis on this when really the people want to buy it because of B and I’m putting a lot of money into A and nobody cares about A?

Steven Julian: So Justin, I was going to ask you, I asked Noah from where he’s coming from with helping people bring their product to market and the different points in that story that he’s getting involved in. I was going to ask you, because obviously the scope of how this is being used goes far beyond product development, but I did want to ask two slightly annoying, slightly comedic questions. Does PickFu have any good water cooler stories, coffee maker stories of, do you see this question that got asked? That is so cool. That is so interesting. That’s so unique. I never thought PickFu would be used to ask this question. Is there any of those you can share on the air? And I didn’t pre-ask that question ahead. of time. So if you can’t, I totally understand.

Noah McNeely: No HIPAA violations.

Steven Julian: Yeah, exactly.

Justin Chen: Yeah, we definitely see a lot of… Interesting questions and then also content that’s being tested. So some interesting uses are baby testing, baby name testing. So, you know, you can’t decide. And actually, my co-founder, John, he had a clever way of doing it and he was having a boy. And so he asked the audience, which name is easier to make fun of and give me your best shot, essentially. So, you know, taking advantage of the written explanations and then having people, you know, I think he targeted males in this case, to come up with the, you know, the best way that they can make fun of the name. And so, you know, at least you’re going into it eyes wide open, right? That’s fantastic.

Steven Julian: That’s awesome.

Justin Chen: So that’s a fun one. And then we have all kinds of interesting things that are being tested. We have a lot of adult… Products and novels and book covers are a big thing. So we see a lot of steamy covers there.

Steven Julian: Have I gone too far with this? Yeah, I like that.

Justin Chen: Yeah, a lot of game characters and a lot of interesting game character designs from all around the world. So those are all really interesting because they want to push the envelope. And I think what’s cool about PickFu is that it allows your creative team to… Maybe go a step beyond that they would normally do because they can get the feedback on it and feel a little bit safe about exploring different ideas.

Steven Julian: We are speaking with Justin Chen. He is one of the founders of PickFu.com. And Justin, one last little for fun question. You know, there’s a point in the year where people who like to watch the World Series of Poker and what I have always found interesting is one of the commercials. Almost every commercial break, they’re like, hey, come gamble here. By the way, if you have a gambling problem, make sure and contact this number. I’m wondering if the development of PickFu and the launch of PickFu has potentially created a, hey, do you have a problem asking too many questions? You want to get the answer to every possible thing you could ever think of. Do you guys ever go like, this? one user might be overusing it. Holy cow. Do you have to go, are you sure you’re not spending too much money on this? Don’t go bankrupt just asking questions. I would imagine the paralysis of analysis could be one of the dangers of something like PickFu. Have I gone too far with that question? What user has asked the most questions? I guess that’s the question I’m asking.

Justin Chen: Yeah, luckily, we haven’t seen this from any individual. So I haven’t been concerned for any bankruptcy, but we’ve seen a lot of. what we do see is a lot of very data oriented organizations. So, you know, I think what we find is that when an organization has an engineer as a founder, they’re typically much more data driven in their decision making. So, for example, DuckDuckGo, the privacy search engine is one of our. Oldest and was one of our earliest customers. And they use PickFu throughout their organization on all the different things from ads to UX to marketing copy, like all over the place. Because I think they’ve instilled such a data-driven culture that, hey, we need to… If we’re going to make a decision on something. and there are some different variations that we’re thinking about, we should have some kind of data to back up where we’re going to go with. And so I think that’s really inspiring to see. as engineers ourselves, we try to do that as well. So every time we have our designer create a few different variations, of course, we’ll talk about it internally, but it always comes down to why don’t we just pick through it and see what the audience thinks? Because strangers always bring up some kind of interesting point or objection that you probably haven’t thought of. And even if you want to disregard it, at least you’re aware of it.

Noah McNeely: Everyone looks at things through their own lens and sometimes getting that, like you said, even if it’s a weird lens that really doesn’t apply, just like we brainstorming, sometimes it leads to an idea you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise. One thing I wanted to draw some attention to just for the benefit of our audience, because a lot of people in our audience are very early in their process. Some of them maybe even never really heard the term market research or what. it means. They might be even a little bit intimidated about using PickFu. But one of the things I loved about your website, and you and I talked about this before, is you have those various templates. So you really do make it easy. If someone’s like, I don’t even know what question to ask, you do have some great examples there. I don’t even know how to show a picture to get feedback. And what does that look like? You’ve got great examples that people can almost drag and drop and plug and play to make that happen.

Justin Chen: Yeah, that’s right. I mean, one of the hardest things I think about entering consumer research or gathering feedback from people is knowing what question to ask. And that was a hesitation that we heard from customers early on. So we did build out a template library that’s more attuned to what jobs you’re trying to do, right? Oh, I want to get feedback on my product. I want to improve my image on my store listing. I want to get feedback on my store listing. These are all things that you’re trying to do. And so what we’ve done is. we’ve come up with questions that we’ve seen from our customers, actually, and kind of created the best practice question, maybe set some parameters around the survey for you as well, just to get you started so that you’re not paralyzed by all the decisions that you have to make when setting one of these up. And it leads to a lot of discovery from our customers as well, because then they discover like, oh, wow, I didn’t know I could. One of my favorite ones that I saw one of our agency customers do was, what do you think this is? And they were working with a client who had a product packaging that just wasn’t very clear what it was. And so they just took a picture of it, literally just a picture of it, threw it up, asked the question, what do you think this is? And no one could figure it out. And so I think that’s just another one of those things where… As entrepreneurs or founders, we all have been way too close to the product that we’re building. And we assume that everyone knows what it is that we’re building and we’ll see. a need for it.

Noah McNeely: I imagine the other side of that story is this agency has probably been trying to talk that client out of that particular package for like three weeks. And then, all right, we’ll go do research and we’ll show them that nobody knows what it means.

Steven Julian: Yeah, exactly.

Noah McNeely: That’s awesome.

Steven Julian: And I would just tell everybody, again, if they go to pickfood.com, and it’s such an easy website. First of all, sign up for free, right? So there’s a free, you know, you can join for free. You can sample for about as clear and transparent pricing. But right across the top, there’s how it works, the different industries, the products. There’s examples. There’s resources. I mean, you make it about as easy to kind of get into this and get started as it possibly can be. I do want to ask one other question. It is pickfu.com. Where did the FU come from?

Justin Chen: So initially it was for the mastery of something. So FU being the suffix that kind of indicates that. So, you know, it was a service that was very good at picking. It also works with pick for you. So we want. to, you know, it picks well for you. And then I think it works well as a verb. And so, you know, our team and a lot of our customers have taken to just pick-fooing it. So if you don’t know what to do, go pick-foo it. I like that. Yeah, that’s the back history.

Steven Julian: I like that. I like that. So it’s become a verb. Pick-foo that.

Justin Chen: That’s right.

Steven Julian: So I like it. So, Justin, you know, I think we’ve got to… And it’s funny, we set up this interview and we could probably keep talking, but because this is so straightforward, because this is such a very great solution to a specific need, I think we’ve covered it as in-depth as we need to get to. And everybody needs to pick through it.

Noah McNeely: Well, is there anything else you want to say to the audience? Who, me?

Steven Julian: Oh, I got tons I want to say. I’m not talking to you, I’m talking to Justin.

Noah McNeely: Sorry.

Justin Chen: No, I mean, I think I just want the audience to start getting out of their own heads, whether they use a platform like they actually go into a coffee shop or a. Home Depot or wherever they’re hoping to sell their products and actually talk to their customers. We do that a lot ourselves. We try to talk to our customers as much as possible. And it’s always incredibly insightful, even when you think you know what’s going on. Definitely gather feedback. Test your product against your competition would be another piece of advice. So you could test your product design against the top three competitors out there and get a sense for why people might be choosing competition over yours. So that’s always really helpful. But yeah, give it a try at pickfood.com. It’s free to create an account. There’s a free onboarding poll in there too. So you can see what it’s like before even spending a dollar.

Steven Julian: By the way, the other side, the people who answer the questions, if you want to judge things, if you want your opinion to be heard, you can go to PickFu and basically sign up to become part of the panel, correct?

Justin Chen: So you can’t sign up to be part of the panel because we work with third-party suppliers for that. Yeah, you can let us know if you’re interested. We do. keep track of people who are interested. At some point, we will create our own panel, but for now, we like keeping those two sides of the house separate.

Steven Julian: I can totally see that. I can totally see that. That makes a lot of sense. And actually, I’m glad you answered the question that way because I think it makes the- You can get biased in the process.

Justin Chen: otherwise. Yeah, exactly.

Steven Julian: Well, yeah. I mean, I know I’m someone and I’m sure there are others who are like, I- I really want to judge other people. I’m so good at it. So, no. So, Justin, so I’ve already kind of given the website. Is there anything else anybody should know other than, hey, just go to pickfood.com and easily sign up for free? Is that anything else in addition to that that you want to give them? as far as contact information?

Justin Chen: No, that’s good. You can find me on LinkedIn if you want to connect personally. And we also have a customer success team that will answer any live chat. Questions or you could also hop on the call with them. So it is a self-service software, but, you. know, sometimes you need a little bit of handholding and we’re here for that.

Steven Julian: So instead of Googling it, go PickFu it, right?

Justin Chen: That’s right. PickFu.com.

Steven Julian: Justin Chen from PickFu.com. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Noah McNeely: Thank you, Justin.

Justin Chen: Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, absolutely.

Steven Julian: Noah, I love the guests. I always love the guests you bring on and hear this one. I mean, Justin, just it’s such an obvious need.

Noah McNeely: And it’s a way to get that feedback through PickFu without being accused of being a stalker by walking around Home Depot or Starbucks asking people their opinions. Kicked out for trespassing and things like that.

Steven Julian: And I was half joking with the question of could people take it too far and ask too many questions. But as I began to think about my own question and I scolded myself internally because…. You’re saving yourself so much money from a process that the standard entrepreneur inventor had no way to be involved in without spending thousands and thousands of dollars.

Noah McNeely: If you’re the kind of person that’s going to ask a thousand questions before you launch a product, this is the best way. to do it.

Steven Julian: Exactly. And it would still be. And I loved that. the big boys and some of those big companies that spend tens of thousands of dollars to create their own market research. They use their budget to go pick-foo it when they need to get something a little just more refined for what they’re looking for. Ask the questions you want. Get your answers in minutes. Be able to go through the data, and there’s just somewhat a great value. So thank you to Justin for being here. Four, and then Noah, the other thing people do besides pick-foo in it, they need to PQS it.

Noah McNeely: That sounds weird.

Steven Julian: Productquickstart.com, contact us. Noah can help you with your stuff. Please don’t put in, I’ve got an idea. Call me, fill it out, send. The music is playing. Jody’s ready to go, apparently. For our needs to get out of here as soon as possible, Jody Smith, producer, and for Noah McNeely, this is Steven Julian saying, we will catch you next time. After you pick Foo-It, come to Product Genius.

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: