Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: We start the show with Noah’s story time. First time ever at the top of the show. We end the show with possibly the launch of the first Product Genius product line. And in between, you’re going to learn a lot about pricing your product or service. Next on Product Genius.

Noah McNeely: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur?

Steven Julian: Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Noah McNeely: Hey, that’s my line.

Steven Julian: Yes, it’s time for Product Genius. I am your slightly annoying… Co-host. Greetings and salutations, everybody. Steven Julian, deep in the lair of Product Quick Start to do the show that only our host can do. Yes. Sitting across the table from me is the host of Product Genius, Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Hi. Hey. Hey, it’s good to see you.

Steven Julian: And sitting to your left and. my right, the intrepid producer, Jody Smith.

Noah McNeely: Wow, you’re really good with directions. That was like that. I was. On your left and my right. Impressive.

Steven Julian: You know, when I was seven years old, somebody helped me with that. Anyway, go ahead. I’m sorry.

Noah McNeely: That’s fine.

Steven Julian: Did my fingers the left and right.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. I was listening to the intro and, you know, we’re going to have to update that at some point because I will turn 50 later this year. So we’re going to have to make that 25 years. Really? Wow.

Steven Julian: Well done.

Noah McNeely: More than 25 years.

Steven Julian: Silver anniversary of helping people bring products to market.

Noah McNeely: I suppose. Yeah. Been doing it a long time.

Steven Julian: A plethora of years. For all you Three Amigos fans, we are going to talk about pricing your product or service today.

Noah McNeely: That’s right. Yeah.

Steven Julian: Very exciting. And the coolest part is we’re going to do something that I don’t think we’ve done on this show yet. We’ve done it, but not at the front end. It’s going to be Noah’s story time. Noah has a story. Noah has an anecdote about pricing your product or service. that has something to do. With. t-shirts. Now, the question is, is it a parable? Is it an analogy? Is it a, oh, shoot.

Noah McNeely: It’s a historical reenactment. Oh, great.

Steven Julian: I love those. All right. So everybody grab your favorite beverage minus coffee. I have it right here. Jody, you got your coffee. So let’s all sit back, relax, and Noah, kick us off with your anecdote and historical reenactment.

Noah McNeely: I’m going to preface this by saying that this is really a story about how to start a day kind of immoralized and demotivated.

Steven Julian: Oh, fantastic. I can’t wait.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, which is perfect for a motivational podcast, right? So you guys are here in the lair. You know, I’m a pretty casual guy. I wear t-shirts to work. I wear blue jeans because I make a lot of messes. I get dirty. Not wearing a three-piece suit, not wearing a tie. Probably haven’t worn a tie in years. So t-shirts are kind of my thing. I wear a lot of them. And like you said, this is a story about t-shirts.

Steven Julian: Yeah.

Noah McNeely: Uh, my wife and I go to various events and, um, retreats and things. We’re at this one retreat. It was, it was a. pediatric, pediatric cancer retreat. And at the end of the retreat, everybody gets a t-shirt and, you know, took this t-shirt home and it was actually one of my favorite t-shirts. It was one of those that made me, you know, it’s just that perfect fit where it made me look a little bit stronger than I actually am. And it kind of hid the parts I like to hide. It was great. So one day, not too long ago, I was, went through my closet. Through my little t-shirt drawer, I was like, oh, I’ll wear that t-shirt today. So I get it out, start putting it on. It’s like, it feels a little weird right now. And then I keep trying to put it on and I, you know, wow, this is tight. Have I gained weight, et cetera. And then I realized that I can’t roll the t-shirt down all the way over my body. And then it dawns on me, this is my wife’s t-shirt. So we had swapped those in the laundry at some point. And I, you know, obviously, and I’ve always known my wife’s a lot smaller than I am, but. This very. physical, very visual representation of just how much smaller she is than me was a little bit demotivating since I’m trying to lose weight, trying to be healthy, and to my wife’s credit, and though I’m very grateful for it but don’t understand it, she wants me to be around for a long time, so I’m exercising and doing all the things at her behest. So anyway, t-shirt didn’t fit, didn’t feel great about it. Found the right t-shirt, of course. To make myself feel better on the way into work, I stopped and had a bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit. Now, honey, if you’re listening, I didn’t really have a bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit or a chicken biscuit or any biscuit that you’re aware of. Right.

Steven Julian: But that is a great cure for demotivation.

Noah McNeely: Yes, always. Whatever habit’s getting you into trouble, just double down on it. So what’s that got to do? With pricing your product.

Steven Julian: Yeah, I’m interested.

Noah McNeely: So the way the t-shirt, sometimes you have that t-shirt that’s just that perfect fit. Sometimes you have one that’s too loose, too tight, and it’s just not a fit. The same can be true with the price. of your product or your service. You can have a price that’s way too tight for what it needs to be for your business plan. You can have a price that’s a lot lower than what your business plan could support. And that’s really the analogy. So today I want to talk about really kind of three areas. Number one, to continue the forced t-shirt analogy, how do you know what size t-shirt you need before you go up to the counter and buy that t-shirt? Now, as people, we all have a lot of t-shirts. You kind of have a good feel for it. Yeah, I’m extra large. That’s what I always do. Large, whatever. I’m used to that. That’s my thing. But when you’re doing a new product or a new service, you don’t have that history. So you kind of start from scratch. You’ve never worn a shirt before and someone asks you, what size shirt do I need to wear? So we’re going to talk about a couple of approaches to finding that price. Also, if we can’t get the size we need or want, how do we get ourselves or our product in this case? to the size that we want it to be? In other words, how do we fit it into the right t-shirt size or the right pricing point?

Steven Julian: And we promise that gluten will have nothing to do with the size of your… Product or service or business that were.

Noah McNeely: Unless you have.

Steven Julian: Unless you have gluten in the product.

Noah McNeely: Exactly. And then third, what do you do if you bought the wrong t-shirt size? How do you return it? Or the analogy, how do you correct a problem with your pricing after you’ve already launched the product?

Steven Julian: I like it.

Noah McNeely: So I forced that analogy. far enough, I think, although it may come back up later.

Steven Julian: Well, speaking of what may come back up later, there may or may not be. I’m going to give a tease. So shirts might be something that also has to do with this show and its loyal listeners. So there’s a reason why you told that anecdote. So I don’t know. We’ll see. That’s my tease. That’s not from Noah. In fact, Noah is now staring daggers at me like, what are you talking about? But anyway.

Noah McNeely: Oh, you’re talking about the shirt I’m. wearing? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Steven Julian: Let’s save it for the end. It’s a tease. All right. Sorry. I’m bringing in my. Bringing in my podcast industry experience.

Noah McNeely: But if you would like a shirt with Steven’s picture on it, let us know.

Steven Julian: Doesn’t happen. Well, we’ll take bids because that is incalculable, the value of it anyway. So we’re going to start with how to know your size before you get to the counter, knowing the price to start. So really, you’re kind of talking about when you’re doing your product or service. How do you figure out what price to put on that product or service before you bring it to market?

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So there’s basically two and I guess three different methods.

Steven Julian: There’s two. Well, three. Okay.

Noah McNeely: Well, because the first method is guess. And as silly as that sounds, I’ve met a lot of people that have done that. And I don’t mean just inventors. I mean, even like big corporate types. And you ask them, well, how much you plan to charge this product? And they’re like, I don’t know, $12. How’d you get to that? It just seemed right. I guessed it. They didn’t say. the word guess, but that’s essentially what they did. So I don’t really recommend.

Steven Julian: I had a chemistry teacher in high school who called it a swag, a scientific, wild, educated guess.

Noah McNeely: I wouldn’t even go that far. It’s just a guess. It’s just a guess.

Steven Julian: It wasn’t even a swag. It was just a guess.

Noah McNeely: The wild guess. It’s a way.

Steven Julian: It’s a good. It’s good. Yeah. Right.

Noah McNeely: So the real methods, there’s, there’s really two methods that I’m going to talk about. Now, of course. If there are any economists listening, there’s of course books with hundreds of pages that talk about all this sort of stuff and all sorts of different things related to this. I’m just trying to make it something that’s usable and practical for the average entrepreneur. So I’ve broken it into two key areas. The first method, and this is a method that really engineers kind of latch on to, you know, I’m very familiar with this method myself. It’s what I would call the bottom up analysis. You as the inventor, you decide, okay, the product’s got to have these features and it’s got to be made out of this material. Or. in a big company, the CEO or the marketing people decide, oh, it’s going to be stainless steel and it’s going to have Bluetooth and it’s going to have this, that, and the other. So then the engineers or the people developing the product, they look at all these things, they maybe quote some of these parts out, and they come back with an analysis of, with all this stuff, this is what it’s going to cost to produce that product. It’s going to cost $8 to produce it. And that’s just raw cost. That’s what we’re going to pay factories and et cetera to get it boxed and get it here. And yeah, that’s our bottom line cost. And then kind of the traditional models, you would say what they call the Forex model. You take that number, you multiply it by four, and that’s what it’s going to retail for. It’s kind of a shortcut. It’s a little bit of a cop-out. It’s not always accurate. It depends on the industry. And frankly, it’s old information because if you’re selling direct to the public or even direct through Amazon, It doesn’t have to be 4X. If you’re in. a different industry, it might be 10X. In the infomercial industry, for example, it’s often an 8X or a 10X, meaning that that product you buy $19.99 off late night TV, it really costs them like $2 to make it. Not saying it’s a bad product. That’s just the nature of that industry.

Steven Julian: So you said kind of the engineers want to latch onto this, largely because the engineers are the one at the… Bottom, putting all of it together, telling the people this is what it’s going to cost to produce this at certain levels. And you said the Forex is kind of an older model in The Economist. You talked about all the different books. Is this something that has been starting to change massively recently because of Amazon and e-commerce and all of that? Is it something that, hey, there’s always been, and again, going to your 25 years. Has it always been like that? There’s always something coming along that’s potentially changing the 4X model to another X model.

Noah McNeely: So picture it. The United States, 2000. Amazon really doesn’t exist in any significant way. I think they may have sold books back then. You really didn’t. have access to, as an inventor, to sell your product in a lot of ways on your own. Unless you’re door-to-door, you could do it that way. But that was about it. So the model there was built around getting your product into Walmart, into Walgreens or Ace Hardware, whatever the retail is. That’s kind of where the Forex model comes from as a baseline. So you look at, I’m going to make this product for $8. I’m going to sell it to Walmart for $16. Walmart’s going to sell it to the public for $32. So everybody’s going to get that piece of the margin there. There are always exceptions to that. So if you are making a very commoditized product like copy paper or drawing paper or something like that that’s very competitive and there’s really not a lot of innovation there, even Walmart’s not going to double the cost of that when they sell it. So that might be like a 1.5X. So maybe it costs a dollar to make that. You sell it to Walmart for $1.25. Walmart sells it for $1.75. So it’s sort of industry dependent. Talking about just mainstream consumer products that were. the types of things I tend to develop, Forex was a good model then. Now, that is not the only avenue to get your product into the marketplace. You can, and I know people, they actually have very successful businesses. They sell direct just through Amazon or eBay or both or Shopify on their own website. You don’t have that additional layer of markup there. So in those cases, I think Amazon’s markup is… 17%, 18%. So now that $8 product, let’s say you still want to make $8 off of it. So you sell it through Amazon at $16 plus 17%.

Steven Julian: So you’re looking at $19, $20.

Noah McNeely: So that’s $20 that you can sell through Amazon. You still make the same money as years ago. you would have sold that product for $32 at Walmart.

Steven Julian: I’d encourage listeners of this show who haven’t gone back and listened to the archives back when Noah was… Part of a team of when Tiffany was hosting the show, we interviewed multiple people who had been on Shark Tank or were part of, you know, talking to Shark Tank and a lot of that direct, you know, there are many different channels now. rather than just I got to get my stuff into Walmart or CVS or whatever. So that’s a good explanation of bottom up. The second slash third. I’m guessing is top-down.

Noah McNeely: It is exactly top-down.

Steven Julian: What do I win, Jody?

Noah McNeely: It is not top-up and it is not bottom-down. It’s top-down.

Steven Julian: Explain what you mean by that.

Noah McNeely: So when you look at it from that perspective, and this is how really marketing people, salespeople, oftentimes CEOs or people running the business will tend to look at things. And that’s a process where they do their research in the market. And they say, okay, this market segment, they will pay X amount. They’re willing to pay $20 for a product that does this, that provides this solution. And that’s how they come up with the pricing. So with TopDown, you really have to know your market space. And this is a case where you may have one segment of the market that can pay $20, one that can pay $40, and et cetera. You don’t necessarily have to pick just one, but you really need to decide who are you targeting. You can’t target everybody. And you need to then work. on your pricing structure based on that target.

Steven Julian: So it’s not necessarily based on what the cost of it is. That’s the bottom up. So the top down is more, who am I targeting? Who is the end line of this? And I’m really going after that person and then doing enough research to know what they’re willing to pay. And therefore the value, which, okay, so that’s intriguing.

Noah McNeely: And how much is that solution worth to that market? And in a future episode, we’re planning to interview the CEO of a company called PickFu, which does market research or helps small clients do market research. And that’s a great way to look at this and finding some of these answers. And literally for just a very small amount of money, you can use a company like PickFu and there are other ways to do it too. To get some of that knowledge that you do not necessarily have. Because I’ve seen people kind of do this analysis incorrectly in two different ways. One, sometimes inventor entrepreneurs, they’re like, they’re so close to it. They’re like, you know, people pay $40 for this. I’m sure they would. When in reality, yeah, maybe you would because it’s your product. But most of the market you’re trying to target, that’s way outside of what they’re willing to pay for this solution. And you go out and you design a product that has to be sold at $40 and you don’t have a business because nobody’s buying it. I see inventors do the opposite too, which can be just as bad as they’re like, they undervalue that. It’s like, well, I got to sell this to everybody. It’s got to be $8. Okay. So then you end up designing, developing a product that’s so de-featured or devalued or whatever that nobody buys it. You sell it at $8 when you could have been selling it at $12 or $20 and you leave a lot of money on the table.

Steven Julian: I have a great homework assignment for any listeners that want to engage in this. It’ll also help our listenership. And I can also say with confidence that Noah was not a part of any of these. Go back to our archive of shows. Find the people we interviewed talking about their products that are literally on the market because I will confess there. were times listening to these people. And they talked about their product. I could see what they were doing. And then they said what it costs. And I’m like, there’s no way on God’s green earth I’m paying that for that. Conversely, other people talking about their products, talking about their solutions on our show as I’m interviewing them. And I’m going, it’s brilliant. I’d pay almost anything for that. That’s brilliant. I’m not saying which is which. I’m saying it might be fun to go back and listen to some of those interviews. And I’m happy to say that. None of those are people that know you were on those shows. It was mostly through one of our other partners in the past. So drive up our listenership. Go back and listen to some of those past ones. I can think of one, and Jody and I are going to get off the air. I’m going to say, you know which one I’m talking about, and he’ll know exactly which one I’m talking about. But I was like, there’s no way I’d pay that for that. Anyway, all right. So moving on. So we’ve talked about a great explanation. of kind of how to figure out. How to put a price on it? Don’t guess. Figure it out, bottom up or top down. Now let’s talk about getting to the size or the price. that kind of works for your business plan, the idea of getting to the size you want to be. So if I’m a 3X or 4X and I want to trim down to 2X or 1X, I know what I need to do. To make that happen. But in terms of your business, it involves biscuits. Yes, it does. Bacon, egg, and cheese, preferably the cheese that have been separated by Frank’s Cheese Hammers. Go on to, you know, talk about fit, right size fit for businesses as you’re launching your product or service.

Noah McNeely: All right. So here’s the crux of the top down, bottom up. is you actually have to do or you should do both if you’re going to have a successful business. You can succeed at one or the other, and you might be successful as a business, but you may not be optimized in terms of maximizing the value or even reaching the right market. So if you do both of. those analyses and you’ve got a mismatch, that’s what I’m saying. Your shirt doesn’t fit. It’s too small. It’s too big. If your top-down analysis comes back with a pretty big number, let’s say $40. And your bottom-up analysis comes up with like $30. Well, that’s a really good place to be because you have a lot of room there. And what you might do in your business plan, you can find other ways to be comfortable in that. So maybe you say, okay, well, I can still charge $38 or $40 and still have a big piece of the market. Well, guess what? Your margin just went up a lot, which helps fund your next product and so forth and so on. So that’s actually the good problem to have. Top-down analysis is bigger than your bottom-up analysis, which leads us to the bad problem. The bad problem, as you can probably imagine, since it’s the opposite.

Steven Julian: My mathematical brain can’t handle this, I think.

Noah McNeely: Yes. It’s when your bottom-up analysis number is bigger than your top-down analysis number. So now the engineers, maybe it’s me, maybe someone else, maybe it’s whoever. Looks at all the stuff that you. want to put in this thing and, oh, that’s $30. But then you do your top-down analysis and you realize, okay, this market, they’re only going to pay $20 for this solution. So now you’ve got a problem. So what do you do? There are two main ways.

Steven Julian: Are you sure it’s not three? One is guess? Oh, I’ve stumped it.

Noah McNeely: Well, you are because my notes spread across two pages here. So maybe there will be more as we work through this.

Steven Julian: He said there’s two main things, but there’s four bullet points to my notes that I sent you before the show, Steven.

Noah McNeely: We’re using modern mathematics and chaos theory in this particular set of notes.

Steven Julian: So there’s two things you can change.

Noah McNeely: There are two big knobs you have to turn that you can change. One is if your product just is too expensive, maybe you can find ways to change the product and make it less expensive. That’s one.

Steven Julian: We’ve talked about that in the past on the show. Hey, you could use plastic here rather than stainless steel and that might.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’m going through that with a client right now. It’s like, you know, right now the manufacturer costs this particular product is coming in like $15, $16 and they need it to be $9 and they’ve got stainless steel and other things in it. So now we’re going back through and I’m explaining to them why you can’t. Right. Why you can’t do that. It’s just not going to work. Yep. This is not my fault. It’s the fact that stainless steel costs what stainless steel costs. The other thing you can change, of course, is your business plan. And what do I mean by that? That means that if you can’t fix the bottom-up analysis, in other words, you can’t take anything out of this product. It’s got to be stainless. It’s got to have these features or else it’s not going to make an impact in the marketplace. Then you have to change your marketplace. So then maybe you go back and you redo that. Analysis targeting a different market. So maybe you were targeting people that could afford to pay $25 for a solution here. And that might be a pretty big group. But now you can go back and you can target people that will be willing to pay. $40 for a solution. That might be a smaller group, but it’s still a group you can be successful with. That also opens up the opportunity that now. You may have a little bit more room to add other features into this product or even upscale it a bit more, and that may be what’s necessary for that market group. So if you’re selling to a premium market group, you may have to make the product even more premium to find that right balance of bottom-up and top-down analysis.

Steven Julian: Noah, in what you do with product quick start, and we always say at the end of the show, hey, you know, you contact through the website, and they hopefully don’t say, I’ve got a great idea, call me. And they’re giving you this. Is this one of the main areas where you bring clarity, you bring help, you help people? Do people get bogged down in this step? This seems like this is one of the major obstacles. I know what I want. I’ve got it designed. I’ve got a, what’s the word? An initial. I can’t even think of the word. Golly, I have not enough coffee today. Prototype. Thank you, Jody, our intrepid producer. That’s why he’s intrepid. I’ve got a prototype, all this kind of stuff. And my bottom up, top down, it’s costing too much. Is this the main area you help people with or one of them, one of the key ones?

Noah McNeely: I would say this is one of the facets of the main area that I try to help people with. And I’m not even talking about helping from an engineering standpoint. Exactly. Really more helping from a counseling and advice. This is the genius side, right?

Steven Julian: This is the genius part of Product Genius, of you getting people to understand what it takes.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. And let’s be clear. Through this program, I’m not saying I’m a genius. The goal here is to help make everyone else a product genius. Like I said, I used to work with very big companies, even sometimes directors of departments and CEOs, is they will fixate on something. And that subconsciously, consciously, or whatever becomes an immovable object. They might fixate on, well, this is the market and it’s not changing. And they may also fixate on, well, it’s going to be stainless steel and that’s not changing. So sometimes a lot of what I have to do in those cases is try to pull out of them, why is that so important? You know, we’re not going to get there with all these conflicting requirements. You know, we’re not going to get you to a $4 product made out of solid stainless steel. You’re going to have to give somewhere. And then we have to dig deeper and deeper as to what’s driving each of those things. Well, what’s driving the $4 thing? Well, I want everybody to be able to buy it at, you know, at the dollar store or whatever. Okay, let’s reevaluate that. Why? And then we go from there. Maybe we end up designing a product that now maybe it even becomes a more expensive product, but we have a successful business potential because we’re selling to a bigger group. And then if you really want to serve that lower end market, that’s great. Maybe we’ll come out with a version two that is that really de-featured. Maybe it’s not stainless steel, maybe it’s plastic and you can still provide that service to that lower market, but you can’t sell everyone a Mercedes. Not everybody can afford it. Right.

Steven Julian: So apart from those two big knobs of the product and the business plan, there was one other thing, kind of a little rabbit trail you wanted to go down of one other little thing somebody might want to consider. Talk about alternate manufacturing quotes.

Noah McNeely: Right. So if you have a number back, this is on the bottom-up analysis, and it’s higher than you can really justify with your business model. Before you go change everything, it’s generally going to be worthwhile to at least get a second opinion. So get a quote from another manufacturer. Excuse me, that’s a very difficult word to say quickly.

Steven Julian: It is.

Noah McNeely: Another manufacturer. Get a quote from them. Make sure they’re legitimate. Make sure there are a lot of manufacturers out there like Alibaba and et cetera. They’re just going to give you a really low price to get you in the door. Then they’re going to take all your money later. Get a second legitimate quote. If it’s in line with the first one, it’s not going to be exact. One’s going to be a little higher than the other. If they’re within 10%, then it’s. probably a pretty legit quote on both ends. But if not, if they are way off, well, then go get a third quote perhaps and just try to find what that real price is. And we’ve covered this in a different episode, I think. Not every factory is the right match for every product. And if you’re trying to… Push that square peg through that round hole. You may be getting a high price for the wrong reason.

Steven Julian: I think it’s safe to say that if the bottom-up is larger in price than the top-down analysis gives you, this is going to be one of the areas where you’ve got to spend some time, really think some things through, go back to the drawing board of whether to de-feature your product or whether to change the business plan to upcharge to get the price higher. You know, by making it even better or really targeting a specific market that can afford it if you do it a certain way. And then thinking of alternate manufacturing quotes. So now, kind of last, we’re talking about returning the T-shirt. So what if we just can’t get there?

Noah McNeely: Well, if we just can’t. get there. And this is kind of before returning the T-shirt. And this is, I’ve unfortunately had to have this conversation with a few people.

Steven Julian: See, I thought that was a perfect segue. I guess that’s slightly annoying. Okay. I apologize.

Noah McNeely: You did.

Steven Julian: Hey, what if you just can’t get there?

Noah McNeely: Okay. If you just can’t get it. And like I was trying to say, I’ve had this very sad conversation with a few people and hopefully we have this conversation very early on. And sometimes that is, you have a very expensive solution for a very inexpensive problem. So you may have that $50. It’s going to be a $50 product by the time we do everything. Nobody’s going to pay any more than $50 for it, even if we add a whole bunch of other stuff to it, and yet I can’t bring the price down.

Steven Julian: Because it’s a gold-covered plunger. It’s the greatest plunger ever invented.

Noah McNeely: And it’s a problem or an opportunity that’s just not that valuable to people. They’ll pay $10 for something that helps them out here, but nobody’s going to pay $50. This is probably one of the ones that you were referencing. earlier. You know, earlier episodes, but sometimes the decision is, hey, there’s just no match here and it’s just not going to work. Well, what’s the worst thing to do there is just ignore that and keep going. You know, the better thing to do is just take a step back, ask the hard questions. Is there another business that can work here? What can I make that look like? All right.

Steven Julian: So the third part of your analogy out of your story was returning a T-shirt that’s the wrong size. And really what you mean by that is. You’re printing the shirts or you’re doing your launch and all of a sudden, as it’s coming out, you’re thinking after the launch, ooh, I think I may need to fix the price.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so there’s a couple aspects of this. One, strategically, how do you prepare for the unbelievable possibility that you misjudged the market or misjudged the price? Well, one thing I generally recommend to people is Don’t buy a lot. Start with a small order.

Steven Julian: And shout out to Tiffany, first host of the show. She talks about that all the time, right? Yeah, absolutely. That’s one of. the main things she learned from her Shark Tank story.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, Tiffany is spot on the money there. So don’t buy a lot. And this kind of flies in the face of stuff we talked about earlier because if you do a small order, those are going to cost more per item typically. So if you’re ordering $1,000 or something, Maybe they’re going to cost $7 a piece, but if you went and ordered $5,000, well, maybe they’re $5 a piece. However, if you still misjudge that, you’ve got $25,000 invested versus $7,000 invested in that initial order. And once you get in the market, you realize, okay, well, I was going to sell this for $20. Nobody’s buying it. Well, now you’ve only got $1,000 that you have to deal with at that point. Your purchase is $5,000 or $20,000 or whatever it is. So order small. That may mean on your first order, you’re really not making a lot of money. You’re really just validating the market forces that will dictate the price you can sell and how many you can sell and who’s going to buy your product. That’s especially useful for inventing entrepreneurs because you’re probably. not spending that

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: