Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: It’s time. It’s time. Yeah, it’s time to talk about the 8,000 pound panda in the room, bringing your product to market and having to deal with China. China. We’re going to talk about it next. on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes. Welcome to another hopefully award-winning edition of… Product Genius, I’m your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. I have no idea why I’m talking so fast. Maybe because I want to get into the topic of this show. Sitting beside me is our intrepid producer, Jody Smith, sitting across the table from me inside of his lair. The warehouse next to his office here at Product Quick Start is the host of Product Genius, Mr. Noah McNeely. I don’t know why I’m doing it like a sports commentator, but I’ve had a little bit more caffeine and I’m really excited.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, well, welcome back to the lair. There will be no wrestling here today.

Steven Julian: Okay. I’ll get rid of my Michael Buffer voice.

Noah McNeely: I’ll put it to you this way. If there’s wrestling here today, this conversation has gone way off track.

Steven Julian: Correct. Correct. Correct. And I would be the referee anyway. There’s not going to be wrestling. What there is going to be is controversy. Maybe that’s why I was to potentially some controversy. That’s why I was going to do the wrestling. So we are going to have a great conversation. What might potentially some people listening might think is a controversial conversation. Noah, as longtime listeners of this show, know you like to send out emails. Hey, here’s what I’m thinking about talking about. And when I got this email about this show. I went, oh boy, here we go. This is going to be good. And everything reminds me of a reference. So I was thinking of Laurel and Hardy. Here’s another fine mess you’ve gotten us into, Mr. McNeely. I thought you. brought up Scooby-Doo or Shaggy. Zoinks, we’re going to talk about this topic. And I was thinking of Honeymooners, Bang Zoom to the Moon. I mean, this is… And there’s probably a couple of phrases with curse words that we’re not going to say on the air. This could be a topic where, and I think you said it in the notes, you might even get some hate mail on this.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, if we ever do a show that will lead to hate mail, this is probably it, unless we come up with something even more controversial in the future.

Steven Julian: So we’re going to talk about China. That was my best Trump voice.

Noah McNeely: So one of the working titles I have for this is The Panda in the Room.

Steven Julian: Rather than the elephant in the room.

Noah McNeely: Oh, I wrote it as elephant in the room and I was like, huh, Panda’s more fun.

Steven Julian: Yeah, Panda is more fun. So we’re going to talk about China and the fact that the reality is if you are an inventor entrepreneur and you are producing a product to be brought to market, China almost has to be part of the conversation and has. been part of the conversation for the last 20 years at least.

Noah McNeely: Absolutely. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be the end of the conversation, but it’s something that almost all. Especially inventor entrepreneurs do generally look at for a variety of reasons. And before we get too deep.

Steven Julian: I was going to say, yeah, yeah. Let me, let me do the slightly annoying co-host job.

Noah McNeely: I feel like I’m being.

Steven Julian: We need to lay some ground rules.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. For legal reasons or something. I feel like you’re looking at me with that.

Steven Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Oh boy. That was good. Yeah. So we need to, I want to lay down some ground rules and I think there are some kind of precursors that I know you wanted to say. And I might even have a couple of my own. So there were some things you wanted to just kind of make sure and say right at the start.

Noah McNeely: Well, first, the opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Spotify, iHeartRadio, or any other podcasting platform. Second, let me be clear. I’m a patriot. I love my country. I was born here in the U.S. and. the South. And if every product I designed could be produced here and manufactured here, I’d be very happy with that. So that’s one thing, even though I do a lot of business in China, which we’ll talk about. The other thing I want to make sure is clear is there’s a very big difference between China, the country, and the people of China. And I work with some fantastic people in China that, just like you and me, they just want a better life for their children and a better life for themselves, just like anyone anywhere. I worked with people and shared in their joys. They brought new children into the world and got married and done all the things that people here do. So I think it’s really important. I think this gets lost sometimes in the political conversations that China, the country, and China, the people are two very different things.

Steven Julian: So I’m going to add my nuance to this conversation, which is the word nuance. I would like… As we talk about this, I want everybody to remember that if you’ve listened to this show or if you are in the process or have brought. a product to market, the word nuance is part of the journey. Noah has sat here for how many episodes and talked about twists and turns and little adjustments and things we need to… You know, well, we could do it. There’s all. you could do it like that, but then it won’t actually work. You have to do this. You have to change that. Bringing a product to market, you have to have a lot of nuance. You have to be willing to adjust. You have to be willing to change your expectations. There are so many different titles of so many different shows that I want you guys to remember. First of all, go back and listen to all those shows after you listen to this one. But then I want you to think about the fact that we are going to have a nuanced conversation. About real people, about real politics and real countries and how it all plays into what you are trying to do in bringing your product to market and how you need to be willing to be nuanced in the midst of that. That was the main thing I wanted to bring up. and just kind of talk about. I guess where the conversation starts is the reality, Noah, and it’s not anything new. It’s been around for, again, at least about 20 years. A lot of the factory work and creation of a lot of products, including things like the iPhone that people have and are listening to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, a lot of products have been made in China. So where are we at today? Because you hear some people, oh, manufacturing is starting to come back. When it comes to making products, where are we at today? Is it shifting at all? or is it, okay, yeah, it’s starting to shift, but still a vast majority of what’s being made is being made in China.

Noah McNeely: I would say still a vast majority is made in China. There are certainly some movements and currents toward doing more domestically. You know, bigger companies especially, but it’s not quite the same for inventor entrepreneurs in general. Now, there’s an exception to every rule. There always is. But I still find it very, very difficult to put a supply chain together domestically for a small client that’s just getting started. I mean, the truth of the matter is, not every product can be made in the United States. And this is the point where people make shocking sounds. Why would he say that? Well, it’s not a complete statement. That’s not an entirely true statement. I think the more complete version of that is not every product can be made here in a volume and at a cost level that the market will support. And this, again, is especially true for inventors or entrepreneurs.

Steven Julian: The reality is anything could be made here if price were not an issue, if volume were not an issue. If other orders from other people were not an issue, I mean, it could be made here, but you’re dealing with, it’s a different style of manufacturing here. So if I’m a new, if I’m doing a product and I’m doing 25,000, 50,000, 100,000 units, I’m doing what’s considered a quote-unquote small run.

Noah McNeely: So, yes, but even those, that’s not even really what I’m talking about. I’m talking about even earlier than that as an entrepreneur, maybe you’re trying to do 1,000 units. Maybe you’re trying to do 5,000. 25,000, 50,000, that does get into an area where. it’s a little bit easier to do domestically. You know, if you come in and an inventor down the street from me and I’m a molding company and they need a thousand of something. Yeah, they’ll probably do it. They’ll probably quote it for you. But that’s really, you’re not creating any jobs in that factory for that.

Steven Julian: Yeah. Talk about the difference and maybe put it in practical. I’m asking you to put it in practical terms in terms of the fact that the wide spectrum of what a product may look like. I’m sitting here thinking. A friend of show and sponsor still of this program, Tiffany Crumans of Opu Probiotics posted online about her. part of her journey was finding packaging, you know, that was made here in the United States. And you can go read about her story and her journey of finding that versus part of it. is you got to get things done for you as the person helping develop the product. What’s the difference? Supposing you even could find someone here, like you said, oh, I could do that molding, but talk about how much difference of a process it is using your. contacts in China.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I think Tiffany’s a good example of this. Now, her product, Opu Probiotics, does make a lot of sense to make here. It’s a consumable, it’s a food product, and that’s not really what we’re talking about here. But the story she has with finding the packaging, that was a journey into and of itself. People think about, okay, China’s cheaper. Yes, but there’s also another element that’s important for the inventor or entrepreneur, and that is it’s easier. So here in the U.S., let’s say you had a product that you’re coming to the market with. It’s got some plastic. It’s got some metal pieces. It’s all got to be assembled together. It’s got to go in a box.

Steven Julian: Dare we mention a past product of this past fictitious product?

Noah McNeely: We have received a cease and desist letter from Frank, so please don’t bring up Frank’s cheese hamburgers in any negative way. Sorry, Frank.

Steven Julian: Sorry, I apologize. And I didn’t mean to get you off track. I thought that was a wonderful–I didn’t know we had received that cease and desist.

Noah McNeely: So Frank’s levitating cheese hammer, that would be a really good example. here.

Steven Julian: Available now for a holiday show.

Noah McNeely: So if you’ve got all these different processes, in the U.S., you almost end up playing or hiring somebody to play the role of general contractor. As though if you were building a house, you–As an individual, you could go out and you could hire the electrician. You could hire someone to pour the foundation. You could hire someone to put up the walls and the roof. And you end up hiring 30 different people. You can manage all that. And that’s kind of what small volume manufacturing in the U.S. becomes. Unless it’s just a single piece of plastic. Well, yeah, then you’re only hiring one person and somebody to make a box. That’s different. But if you have a product that’s got multiple parts, multiple processes, assembly. You end up having to go find a plastics person or plastics molder. You end up having to go find a metal shop. You end up having to go find someone to make the box. And Tiffany experienced some of this with her, you know, just trying to get a box. Yeah, exactly. Whereas in China and in other areas in East Asia, but mostly China, I can send two emails and two factories I trust and have history with not to Alibaba. We’ve talked about that. Don’t go there. It’s dangerous. But two factors I trust, I can send two emails and I’ll get a quote back on within just a few days. on the full thing. The whole product, it’ll be to make the product, assemble the product, put it in a box, print the box, and it’s on a pallet and they can even estimate what it’s going to cost to ship it to wherever in the United States I want to have it shipped. So it’s a much easier thing to do for, and that’s for small volume. That’s like a thousand units even. So it’s much easier to find factories that are willing to do that in small volume and take over the whole thing. Not that it can’t be done. And again, there are exceptions. And frankly, if you are listening to this and you own a factory in the US or Canada or that would love to do this for small volume for inventor entrepreneurs and take over the whole thing and maybe you won’t. be as cheap as China, but that’s okay because you can solve one of these other problems and that’s the make it easy thing. Call me. I have been looking for you for a long time. So please, please call me if that’s something you want to do.

Steven Julian: So I’m going to, I’m going to reset here a little bit. And this is partially showing my slightly annoyingness and also my throwing up my hand and going, okay, I’ve never gone through this process. So I’m asking you to, I want to stop and just kind of camp here for just a second. for those who are new to the process or dumb like me, I guess I’ll say. So welcome to the club. I welcome you in with open arms. You would get hate mail on this topic is because of people who’ve had experiences of going through companies like Alibaba and getting burned. You pointed out one very important thing. You have developed a fantastic relationship and done the due diligence because you’ve been there. You know the people. You’ve seen the process work. Just unpack that a little bit because when you’re talking about this. And saying, we got to talk about the panda in the room. We’re not talking about all of it. Again, here it comes down to people. You found some trustworthy companies, trustworthy factories to work with.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So there’s two reasons I think we might get hate mail. One is people that have had bad experiences in China because, you know, it’s a billion people. They’re not all good people. There’s some bad people there too, you know, believe it or not, you know, a billion people. statistically, there’s a lot of bad people and a lot of good people there. You know, it’s kind of like don’t take candy from strangers. Don’t take production quotes from strangers. You might get a good one. You might get a bad one. You might get a quote from somebody who has no connection with the factory at all. that’s just trying to, you know, get your money out of it.

Steven Julian: Scam your money, yeah.

Noah McNeely: And you have very little recourse, you know, through legal systems and otherwise if that happens to you overseas like that. Not just China, but in a lot of countries overseas if you have a problem like that. Excuse me. Doing the due diligence, taking the time to find legit factories, factories that have a track record of success. And these are relationships that took me years to build. And I fired some factories over the course of my career. And over time, you start to learn, or I started to learn, okay, this is a group of factories that are really good for this category of products, and they always do good work. This is a group that does this kind of product, and they always do good work. One of the issues you do kind of run into in, I think, Asia, probably in a lot of places, is factories will want to quote on something, even if it’s not in their sweet spot. So that’s sort of the nuance of building these relationships is understanding, okay, I know you can do it all. But really, this is the core of what you’re great at. And that varies from factory to factory. And this is a total tangent.

Steven Julian: But I think that tangent leads to the other side of where I wanted to camp out for just a second, which is, and I don’t want to gloss over. that. Noah McNeely of Product Quickstart and the host of Product Genius is on the hunt for a factory on the North American continent that would… Potentially have the ability and be interested in doing small runs or a lot of turnaround with or helping new products get to market.

Noah McNeely: Multiple factories. I’d love to meet a lot of you.

Steven Julian: Yeah.

Noah McNeely: Now, this is the other reason I think we’ll get hate mail is from people that’s like, I own a factory and I can do this. This guy’s nuts.

Steven Julian: So why are they not?

Noah McNeely: Don’t hate me. Just reach me.

Steven Julian: Right, right. Reach out to me. Let’s talk about it because you know the process. So why is it that you haven’t been able to find what are without, and again, because there’s nuance, there’s probably a million reasons, but what are some of the top two or three reasons why North American factories do not do this type of work?

Noah McNeely: In your opinion. Again, just based on my experience, I think there are a few reasons. How can I be delicate about this? A lot of inventors are not business savvy and maybe they don’t work through someone. like me or someone that understands the industry. They just go straight to that molder or whatever and they want to take up a lot of that person’s time and they become a nuisance. They’re doing what they think they’re supposed to do as a customer. You go into this. And you want to make $1,000 to start. And that’s a huge, again, that’s more of a nuisance level for most of the domestic factories I’ve run into. Now, if you go in and you’re like, all right, I’m an inventor, but I’ve got some financial backing. We want to make $20,000 of these out of the gate. Well, that’s a different conversation and less of a nuisance. And especially if you can convince that factory owner, well, there’s a, you know, we’re starting at $20,000. We may be $80,000 in a few months. $300,000 a year. And then if they see a growth path there, the problem is a lot of these factors have spent so much time. or maybe earlier on, they talked to inventors that just took too much of their time, never got anywhere or made that first run. And then that was it. And they’re. doing, you know, they’re just doing that, the cost reward analysis of that relationship with you.

Steven Julian: So let’s now we can, I’d like to pivot to a couple of maybe comments or questions that you’ve heard. Right. As you’ve worked with people. But I want to create American jobs. Yes. I didn’t mean to do it in an irritating voice. I apologize. But I want to create American jobs. What?

Noah McNeely: That’s your normal voice.

Steven Julian: Yes. Yes. This is my podcast host voice.

Noah McNeely: So my comment there is, I get you. And I do too. But making 1,000 units is not going to create any American jobs. And if you start your company and the cost is so high that you cannot, your company doesn’t get off the ground, you have made exactly zero American jobs and you will make exactly zero American jobs.

Steven Julian: But about going to China, I’m worried that there’s going to be conflict or the geopolitical problem or war or zombies that will disrupt the China supply chain.

Noah McNeely: Right. So let’s say you do find… A domestic factory that’s willing to take you on in small volume and grow with you. You know, that does happen. The. point of this is not that it could never happen. The point is it’s very hard to make it happen. Let’s say you do that and you’re like, all right, if there’s something happens, we have a trade embargo with China, you know, zombie stakeholder China, whatever it is, and there’s no trade with China or very limited trade with China. I’ll be safe. You know, I’ve got my, you know, let’s say Frank has diversified his business.

Steven Julian: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Cease and desist from Frank.

Noah McNeely: Let’s say Frank’s. Brother, uh, Fred, Hank, Hank, Hank has, uh, opened a new, you know, he’s gotten some investment from his brother and he’s opened a business in East Bumble, greater East Bumble, Missouri. And it’s, he’s bought a couple of molding machines and he’s going in the manufacturing business, small volume. And he’s like, all right. So you’re like, all right, I know Hank and Hank’s going to take good care of me. I got my contract with Hank. We’re going to make a thousand units a quarter with, with Hank. And that’s going well. So I’m protected from any disruptions with China. Okay. So now let’s back out a little bit. Let’s say there is some sort of global trade disruption with China. What do you think happens to Hank’s factory the next day or the next week? Well, a couple of things. One, Hank’s going to start getting a lot of calls from people that make product for Walmart and other places, people that make a lot more product than you do. They’re going to say, you know, we’ve got this supply chain issue. We want you to make our product for us. And we make these plastic coat hangers. How many of those could you make? And Hank’s like, well, you know, we’re a small company. I could probably make $300,000 a month if I work 24-7. Okay, that doesn’t fulfill our need, but that helps. So we want to hire you. But then Hank says, well, wait, I’ve got these other customers and stuff that I have a contract with. So, you know, giant coat hanger company says, okay, we’ll buy out their contracts. And Hank said, well, I don’t really feel comfortable doing that. So, Hank, here’s a check for $11 million. We just want to buy your factory. Even still, you’re not going to be protected. from that because something like that’s going to be a global disruption and the players with bigger money and bigger lawyers and bigger ambitions and bigger customers are going to take over as much of the capacity as they can right away. Now, you might find that rare person, maybe Hank’s that rare person that will turn down $11 million and you might get lucky there. Most of the Hanks are not going to do that.

Steven Julian: Well, if that happens, Hank needs to become your pastor of your local church, I think, at that point. By the way, I recognize—I’d like to apologize to Noah. officially on the record—I went rhyming. You went alliterative. I do recognize Fred is alliterative with Frank. I chose Hank as a rhyming. I guess I—I don’t know. Yours was fine. I kind of jumped on you.

Noah McNeely: Please tune into our other podcast on Wordplay at the time.

Steven Julian: And our—And our relational therapy that we do with Jody, our producer. Okay. And then the last one you already kind of talked about, I guess another question that happens is, oh, the Chinese are going to steal my idea. They steal all the IP.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, we’ve had an episode on this, or maybe it was one of the flashes of genius. But again, go with reputable factors, factors you have a relationship with. Stay away from Alibaba. Don’t take quotes from strangers. Yeah.

Steven Julian: Okay. So. So that’s kind of talking about the Chinese side of things or just the day-to-day operation, if you will, of getting your product to market. We are not a political show, but this is a topic that has a political aspect to it. So I love the way you phrased this in our pre-show note where every… There was an old TV show. So again, a reference, Queen for a Day, where they would take a studio contestant and make her queen for a day. And they always gave her a dishwasher. But anyway, that was the 50s.

Noah McNeely: What kind of queen wants a dish? Exactly.

Steven Julian: You want your dishes done for you.

Noah McNeely: What country are you a queen of? Yeah, exactly.

Steven Julian: Exactly. So you talked about If I Were King for a Day, which I believe there’s a song. I will not sing it. But if you were king for a day or, you know. Yeah, let’s keep it. with King. Let’s keep it with benevolent monarchy.

Noah McNeely: Yes.

Steven Julian: And you could just make things happen. Yes. What would you do?

Noah McNeely: Well, first, I’m going to give a teaser for it.

Steven Julian: And specifically in terms of this topic.

Noah McNeely: I’m King for the day.

Steven Julian: Oh, sorry. I’ll shut up. I apologize.

Noah McNeely: But first, before we go into that, I do want to give a teaser for our next Flash of Genius, and that’s people that listen to all the things we just said and say, okay, well, what do I do then? We’re going to talk about that in the Flash of Genius. How do you? Manufacturing the U.S.? How do you get to that point?

Steven Julian: You sure you’re going to be able to cover that in five minutes?

Noah McNeely: We may have to do another teaser. Might be a series of teasers.

Steven Julian: A serial, as it were. Now, all of a sudden, I’m playing the old Superman.

Noah McNeely: We’re going to cover one possible route. That’s what we’re going to do. Okay. So again, at the risk of this becoming a political show, which is not, you know, I’ve given, having been in this industry a long time and certainly wanting to. do more and more business and diversify where we do business, even whether it’s domestically or otherwise, I’ve given a lot of thought about this, about what governments could do. And I know, you know, governing is much more complicated than just being king of a day and waving, king for a day and waving a magic wand. But if I could do those things. Here’s what I’d look at. On the federal level, I think it would be a good idea, a very good idea for the Department of Commerce or whoever, you know, I don’t know who’s responsible for this kind of stuff, but whoever would be responsible to look at trying to create other Chinas in other countries. So in other words, places where small businesses can get started and grow and then, you know. Bring that value to the U.S. eventually. So looking at places like Brazil or Chile or Latin America, East Africa. I actually do business. I actually have a company I do business with in Kenya. It’s a great little company. They manufacture some stuff for one of my clients. So there are places like that that are starting to pop up organically, but with some backing and support from government interests in the United States. I think we could grow that. And I think that would be good. For the U.S. and globally.

Steven Julian: In some respects, that is already happening. I know Vietnam, at least in terms of clothing and a couple other industries, has become a pretty big player.

Noah McNeely: It’s happening for big businesses, but I don’t see it happening in a way that helps small businesses get started.

Steven Julian: And the one thing you haven’t said, and even in this, so I’m going to… I’m going to really drill you on this one or ask you a tough question on this one. Because when you talk about if you were king for a day and you would have other countries, one of the biggest reasons why these countries would be more conducive to helping with smaller orders, new orders, bringing a new product to market is because of the cost of labor is one of the biggest ones. I mean, that’s it. That’s part of what has to go. And the cost of running the factory itself because of government, there’s less regulation. Less regulation, lower labor costs. That gets factored. in.

Noah McNeely: And when those things are lower costs, it’s less of a risk for factories to take on small work and to take that dice roll with you in the hopes that you grow. It’s much less of a risk for… That factory to take six swings on small clients with the expectation that one’s going to become big. That math still works out for them, which is something that China has kind of done well, is they’ve sort of mastered that. And they recognize that some of the startups are never going to be that big, but that’s okay.

Steven Julian: Nuance. Okay. Back to being king, and thank you for not getting rid of your jester. No. Yet to this point. So go on. I know, I’m walking the line.

Noah McNeely: You are a permanent member of the court. State and local governments. So, you know, most states and big local governments like the county where we’re in now, which is as big as a state, frankly, population-wise, they will often have departments or organizations that their mission is to bring manufacturing jobs or other jobs or basically grow the commercial interests in that state. Now, what I’ve seen is they. do a great job on things like here in Georgia bringing the Caterpillar factory here, which creates a bunch of jobs, and then the Rivian factory and things like that. And those are all fantastic things to do. That’s all good stuff, all great stuff. I don’t want to take away from that. However, what I do see lacking is what I would call manufacturing incubation. So I don’t see a whole lot of… There’s pathways for small businesses to get started in the state and grow and manufacturing businesses to start in the state and grow. And again, some of those will become bigger businesses. Now, I don’t know how you’d structure this. I’m not actually in politics, but what I would love to see is states and governments create these sort of manufacturing, small manufacturing zones. Maybe you put them in places that need more jobs and you don’t. You subsidize that to a point where you’re not going to compete with China on price, but at least you subsidize to the point where it becomes that easy place to go. And maybe it’s all on the same street. I can get my parts, my plastic parts molded, my metal parts made. I can get my box done, et cetera. And the goal there being to get these companies started to where they can graduate out and maybe they build their own factory or whatever in your state somewhere. And I think that’s… If I could do something, that’s what I would do. I think that the great thing about a Caterpillar or a Rivian coming to the state, that’s going to be a lot of jobs right away, a lot of investment right away. But what happens when that factory closes? All those jobs go away all at once, right? So that’s a problem. You see that in the Midwest and other places. As industries move or they decline, that happens, and it’s a really big hit at one time. Small businesses and getting small manufacturers going, that’s more of a diversification type play. You’re in finance. You get it. Where if one of those goes away, okay, maybe we’ve lost 15 jobs, but those 15 people can go work somewhere else. Caterpillar goes away. Caterpillar’s not in trouble. They’re great. Caterpillar, don’t send any letters. If Caterpillar goes away or moves to their factory, that’s hundreds. of jobs that disappear overnight.

Steven Julian: Yeah. And you kind of had in your note here, there are politicians smarter than you and I that can work on this. But I’m sitting here thinking that why not also open–if the government wanted to get involved, they could get involved rather than building the next big edifice of some city thing downtown. Why not have the government kind of runs the–like they own the incubator, they own the space, or they’re at least involved in it. Why not also get involved on an educational side of students who might want to get involved using their hands, learning a trade?

Noah McNeely: Imagine a scenario where you have a technical school, technical college, and maybe you have an opportunity zone, which those exist in lots of places, and you add to that a manufacturing incubation. Park or whatever you’d want to call it. I think that the synergy of that, you would see dynamic improvements across a lot of different areas. First, those students learn the trade. They learn how to be a molder. They learn how to do machining. They learn how to do all these things that can apply. in all sorts of ways. And the community has improvements because you have

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: