Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Have you ever wondered what it would be like to develop a nuclear-powered water fountain? Well, you might be thinking about it, but that seems impossible. But both of those topics will come up, and a lot more, when we talk to the founder of Nasoni, Steve Waddell, next on Product Genius.

Steve Waddell: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Steven Julian: Hey, that’s my line. Yes, indeed, it is Steven Julian, your slightly annoying co-host. Welcome to another hopefully one day award winning edition of Product Genius. With me as always, sitting in the producer’s chair is Jody Smith. But more important than that, across the table from me is the host of Product Genius. He who makes it all go round when it comes to quick starting products. and being a genius of helping people get their products to market. It is Noah McNeely from Product Quick Start. Welcome to your own show.

Noah McNeely: Well, thank you. It’s good to be here. And you know, when you say he makes things go round, I think about, you know, that I’m kind of in shape and that shape is round.

Steven Julian: Yes.

Noah McNeely: So thank you for bringing that up.

Steven Julian: I am the king of round shapes when it comes to body shapes. But yeah, so we are in your lair again here at Product Quick Start. And we’ve got a guest on this show. I’m very excited. A two-time appearing guest on this program.

Noah McNeely: And he keeps doing such wonderful, cool things that we had to bring him back.

Steven Julian: He is doing a new cool thing, and we want to talk about that new cool thing, but we’re going to talk about all the things he does. It is my pleasure to introduce into the studio and into the show, Steve Waddell with Nasoni. Steve, welcome to Product Genius.

Steve Waddell: Hello, Steven. Hello, Noah. I’m honored to be here. Thank you for the invite. Yeah, absolutely.

Steven Julian: Now, we are going to talk. about the new thing that you’re doing, but before we do that, let’s talk about, let me just let you tell everybody about Nasoni and your company and what you guys do and what you’ve been doing for a while now.

Steve Waddell: Absolutely. I’m happy to. So, I’ll start, really, Steven, with a question. When you go to rinse your teeth after you brush, do you cup your hands, use a cup, or tilt your head?

Steven Julian: I cup my hands.

Steve Waddell: You know, I used to do that, but then I started tilting my head under the faucet, and I got really tired of doing that. And so I decided there’s got to be a better way. And one day I ran across a video of a little girl over in Rome, and she was drinking from a fountain called a Neistoni. And these things sit on the street side. They look like a fire hydrant. And water comes close from the Apennini Mountains through the Roman aqueducts and up through these Neistoni, and they come out a little tube hanging down the side. When you plug the bottom of that tube, water pops up like a water fountain. And I happen. to see that. I’m thinking, my gosh, why isn’t that in the bathroom in our faucets? And so that’s the genesis of the name of the company, Nasoni, and the idea that I set out to put in place and make happen.

Steven Julian: And when did that idea happen? When did it kind of first start? And when were you able to kind of get it onto the market?

Steve Waddell: So that’s a great question. And what a fascinating journey it’s been. Back in 2014, when I saw that, New Year’s Day of January 2014, I went to Lowe’s, and I decided I would try to make a proof of concept. You ever see those little fiberglass things they have in Lowe’s. you can get for a washroom or something?

Steven Julian: Absolutely.

Steve Waddell: Yeah, I bought one of those. I bought a cheap faucet, and I bought a shutoff valve that I could screw in place where the water comes out. I took it all home, put it together in my garage driveway, and I hooked it up to a garden hose. I drilled a hole in the top of the faucet. And when I turned the water on and I turned off the. shawl valve, it popped out the top just like the Roman Nasoni fountains. And so I was really happy with the idea and so blown away by it, I was encouraged. And I made a little video and I took it over to my stepfather. Now, keep in mind, my stepfather was 83 years old at the time, okay? But he’s been very big in my life, my entire life, literally and figuratively. He’s 6’3″, I’m 5’8″, on a good day. And so I show him this video and he goes, what the hell are you going to do with that? And I said, well, you know, when you rinse after you brush, you either got to cup your hand, tilt your head, or use a cup, right? He looks at me and goes, no. I said, no. I said, well, what do you do? He goes, oh, heck, I just take my teeth out and put them in a cup.

Steven Julian: Not your target market for sure.

Steve Waddell: Exactly. So that’s a great point. Not my target market. And that’s an extremely important thing that everyone understands. When you have a product, you got to know who your customer is, right? So when he told me I’d never sell one. That just made me encouraged to go. prove him wrong, right? So what I did, as all entrepreneurs, you need to find funding because most of us don’t have extra money just to lay around and throw in an idea. So I entered startup competitions and I started winning them. Ultimately, I won over $80,000 in startup competitions. $50,000 was on a TV show called Steve Harvey’s Plunderdome. I competed against another entrepreneur on stage for the audience vote. And when I won that, I ended up meeting Noah, Noah McNeely, and hiring his company to help me develop the first MVP of that, if you will.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, we’ve known each other for a long time. And one of the things I always thought was super cool about you, Steve, is you do enter all these. Business competitions. And, you know, I just thought that’s just something you like to do. But I think there’s actually some process behind that, which we may talk about in a little bit.

Steven Julian: Now, one of the things I want to do is I want to say, and I said at the very beginning that, Steve, you were on Product Genius. Back when Tiffany was hosting along with me and Noah invited you because you guys have been working together. So I want to encourage everybody, go back, find that past episode. It’s a great episode and it’s more in-depth of the actual development of Nasoni. But Noah, I do want to say that one of the reasons you asked Steve back is some of the kind of current developments around Nasoni. But before we get to that, let me let you… Kind of regale us with a story of working with Steve and maybe one of the ways that, you know, you always, we, on this show, we talk a lot about how you help entrepreneurs. Here we have one of your entrepreneurs on the show with us. What specifically were you able to help Steve with in developing his product through Product Quick Start?

Noah McNeely: Well, I mean, in the first product, I was mostly doing the design and some of the engineering with Steve, and we looked at different manufacturers, and one didn’t work out, and you ended up with a different one. And really, it was helping give some vision, I think, to—or really, Steve has a great vision from the start. So it’s sort of helping Steve finesse his vision of the product. So that was a lot of fun. And then he got on the market, and I didn’t hear from Steve for a little while. But then I heard from him again, not—Not too much later. Now he’s working on this whole new thing that I’ve been collaborating with him on. A whole new type of product based off the Nasoni technology. But I don’t want to steal his thunder. But there’s multiple millions of dollars involved in this. So I’ll let Steve talk about that. Look at that.

Steven Julian: What a great tease. Back to the guest. Well done by the host, Noah McNeely. So Steve, Nasoni’s been developing a product quick start. And Noah, we’re helping you kind of. Tweak a couple of things and get it to market. And then here, so we go from a product that helps people in their residential bathrooms, and it sounds like maybe there’s some new development. So what’s been happening lately with Nasoni?

Steve Waddell: Okay, great. So let me give just a brief background. I spent 25 years building nuclear-powered. aircraft carriers and submarines. So I’ve got a lot of background in process development from that work that I did. And then 11 years helping grow my wife’s company from… A small business to a multi-million dollar government consulting business. And again, more process development, process improvement capabilities came out of that. But, you know, when we launched with Nasoni, it was a tough time, right? Because our product arrived in our warehouse. And what happened? That was around January, February 2020. What happened in March of 2020 was COVID, a hundred-year global pandemic, right? And so all the trade shows we had planned were canceled. The Minnesota State Fair was canceled. Basically, we ended up consuming a lot of our marketing budget as operating capital. And so, you know, my wife had said to me, you ought to look at getting an SBIR grant. And I’m thinking, what am I going to do with a faucet and a grant? It just didn’t dawn on me how I could turn that into something. But one day, Dr. Nancy Gurdon at Old Dominion University introduced me to Dr. Lisa Kaperna. Lisa is the clinical director for Old Dominion University’s Monarch Physical. Therapy Center. And she deals with spinal cord injured patients on a daily basis. And she saw the faucet and she goes, oh my gosh, if I had a sensor version of this, we could really help our spinal cord injured patients. So I went, voila, there’s my grant application, right? So like I normally do, I use a lot of freelancers to fill some of the gaps I have sometimes in the business. And I went and found an expert on grant writing. Now I’ve written a lot of government proposals and I’ve won multi-million dollar contracts for my wife’s company doing so. But writing a grant proposal is entirely different. And so I hired a guy that knew all about writing grants for the NIH. And we set to work putting together this grant application, which I won last June. And it was for about $314,000 combined for a phase one. And the phase one has really developed what I would still call a proof of concept that you can make this work. And it included a clinical trial. So I hired Noah’s team to help me. I hired a bunch of other people, a number of PhDs, and we went to work building this prototype. And then back in around March, we started doing a clinical trial first with 10 of the clinicians from Dr. Caperna’s staff. And then we actually had about 15 to 20 actual patients, spinal cord injured patients, to use the faucet. And the clinical trial was extremely successful. And so much so that we developed a phase two grant application to continue that development further. And that application was submitted in March. And I’m happy to say that this week we were notified. coming on Monday, we will be awarded a little over $2 million contract to finish developing that product for the market. And there’s a huge need. If you think about all of the people that you know that are in wheelchairs, that have spinal cord injuries and so forth, wounded veterans even, there’s so many people that can benefit from this. And just to explain in a high level, we have three different types of function. One, you can use Alexa and just say, hey, Alexa, I want to get a drink of water. Or Alexa, I want to rinse, I want to shave. And it would automatically turn. the fountain feature on and then warm it to your desired temperature through a thermostatic mixing valve. So that’s one way. The other way would be motion sensors. We have motion sensors on the faucet to do all the same functionality. And the third way is eye gaze. Say you were a wounded veteran in Iraq, you hit an IED. Lost the function of your arms and your voice, but you still had trunk control, meaning you could lean forward in a wheelchair. You could stare at the faucet and actuate the fountain mode and use it to do just like the other modes as well.

Noah McNeely: That’s some pretty science fiction-y stuff to me, but it’s cool.

Steven Julian: It sounds very cool.

Steve Waddell: It’s unbelievable. We’re excited to land the FACE grant. Many companies don’t ever get to that stage. But for us, you know, we talked about pivoting earlier. There’s a chapter in my book on pivoting. And this is one of the things you do as an entrepreneur, right? When you hit a road bump, you find another way to go around it. And that’s what we’re doing now.

Noah McNeely: And as exciting as the multi-million dollar grant is, believe it. or not, that’s not even why we have Steve on the show today. Because Steve is taking, you know, a lot of the lessons that he learned and processes he developed. getting to this point. And tell us about your book, Steve. Did I just steal your thunder, Steven? I’m sorry. I just overwrote what Steven was going to say. I apologize.

Steven Julian: So I’m going to go out to my car, and I’m going to turn on some Dave Matthews band. Noah just took my job. I’m sorry. Just kidding. That actually was another great pivot, great leading of the guest. Well done.

Noah McNeely: We’re going to be doing an episode on AI taking people’s jobs one day. So you’re just starting early.

Steven Julian: Let’s get out of Mr. Waddell’s way. Steve, tell us about the book that you’re writing and have written and are ready to put out into the public.

Steve Waddell: Absolutely. Happy to. So, you know, what I learned in bringing this product to market is I could never find a step-by-step process that says, Here’s how you go from product idea to selling. I looked for it. I bought many books off Amazon, found nothing that really did what. I wanted to do. And so what I’ve basically done is written the book that does just that in five stages and 15 steps. The five stages are idea, concept development, prototype development, MVP development, and then launch and market introductions. And I put all that into a book. The book I originally called Legends Execute. And the reason I did that was because, you know, ideas are a dime a dozen. You’ve heard that phrase, right? It’s the execution that counts. Can you execute? And maybe you’ve even heard the phrase from Mark Cuban, a wantrepreneur, right? That’s somebody who has an idea and they never take a step forward. And they don’t because they’re afraid to. They don’t know what to do next. They don’t know what the steps are. So this book sets out to fix all of that. I was on a call with Jason Pfeiffer. Jason is the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine. And I was telling him about my book and the title of the book. And he goes, I think you need a different title. I said, well, okay, why is that? He goes, have you ever heard of the book called The Third? Door? I said, no. He said, picture this, you’re standing in a line to get into a bar and the bouncer may or may not let you in. And he goes, there’s always another entrance and that’s the VIP entrance. And unless you’re a VIP, you’re not getting in there either. If you’re in the know, there is a third door. And he goes, the guy that wrote that book now has a business he can build around that. So as I thought about it, I thought, what’s different about my process than any other? Instead of Legends Execute, what else can I call it? If you look at the graphic, what we show in the graphic is that when you’re at the idea stage, it’s full of risk. And as you work through the steps and go around the process, deuce risk, and you add value. So you get to the 15th step, the final step. And it’s all value and all the risk is just about gone. And so as I thought about the name of the book, I had recently read another book on marketing. And in that book, it talked about taking two words and putting. them together to form a new meaning. So as I thought about it, I thought, okay, what’s different about process is it’s all about adding value. So if we take the word value and add it to entrepreneur, what do we get? Valuepreneur. So that’s what I named the book, Valuepreneurs. And in a plural, make it plural. And you can actually find my website. It’s just valuepreneurs.com. So that’s how we got to the name of the book and what it’s about.

Steven Julian: Yeah. So the book is, as he said, the book, I said book because I’m looking at the title. The book is called Valuepreneurs. The subtitle is The New Rules for Launching Products, Building Your Business, and Achieving Your Entrepreneurial Dream. And like you said, one of the central tenets, central themes is this value-driven product development. The five areas and the 15 steps, you go from risk to value. Let me just ask you this. Of the 15 steps or of the five stages, I know they’re all important. Is there one that you think more people than not will read it and go, yeah, that’s the key. That’s the main one. Is there one or? two that kind of stand out. or anecdotally, as you talk to people about this and as you’ve worked through the process, you’re like, this is something that almost all entrepreneurs will. It’ll resonate with them.

Steve Waddell: You know, one of the big questions I think everybody has as an entrepreneur, I know I had this when I started out, was I’ve got this great idea and I come up with a design for how to do it initially. And I think, oh man, I’ve got to protect that idea, right? I’ve got to go get a patent. That’s the first thing I need to do is jump out and get a patent. Well, what you’ll learn in the process is you’re not anywhere near the right time to get a patent. It’s not until we get to what? Step five is where we file a provisional patent, which is at the end of the concept development stage. And that gives us that window, that one-year window, to do the prototype development. And when we finish prototype development, at that point, we should fully understand what it takes to build our MVP. So once we know that, now we know how. our design is going to be, now we can go do and get our full patent. So the real big message there is most people patent their idea at the wrong time. And when they do that, other people come up with better ways to design around it.

Noah McNeely: Sometimes I’m the one that comes up with a better way to design around it in the first five minutes of meeting with them, and they’re very distraught about the $10,000 they already spent on the wrong patent.

Steve Waddell: Exactly. So you know it from a real front perspective.

Noah McNeely: Twelve times a year.

Steven Julian: And Steve… And Steve, I think actually I’d like to go back and rephrase my question because rather than one or two steps, just the fact that you lay out the steps in a particular order, as you’ve been kind of telling this one. So that’s one of the biggest thing is that the process is a process for a reason. There are different ways to go through these steps. Let me try to, because Noah has done the last two of these really, really well and made me very, very self-conscious and I have a very fragile self-esteem. We’re. going to try to recover a little bit and ask this. I believe along with the book, and again, valuepreneurs.com, right now pre-launch, they can see the table of contents, I believe get a preview of maybe the first chapter, but you’re also kind of building a community online around this book and around this topic. Talk a little bit about that.

Steve Waddell: Yeah, you know, it’s really cool. One of the things that I’ve learned from a guy named Sam Ovens, Sam is a founder of a website called school.com. So S-K-O-O-L.com. And I have a site in there for valuepreneurs. What’s happened is a lot of companies do their training. They have training on their website. And then in order to have a community, they send people to a Facebook group. Well, what happens when you go to Facebook? Are there any distractions? Do people’s birthdays pop up? Or, you know, somebody else sends you a message? All of that stuff is disruption and it loses your focus. So what Sam has built in school.com, you can have a community where people go in just like Facebook and you can dialogue with other entrepreneurs. You can also have your. calendar for online training. You know, you can have people collaborate amongst themselves on how they’re using the process. So, you know, the term a rising tide floats all boats. You know, there’s always other ways to do things and we learn from each other. As we build this community. So we’re just getting started with the community. So it’s small right now, but, you know, we’re just starting it.

Steven Julian: Yeah, well, let me let you cast the vision a little bit, because obviously it’s just started because you’re still pre-launching the book. But what would you like this community on school to become? I’m obviously discuss things that come out of the book, but it’s… Obviously, you want it to be bigger than just a book club. Let’s talk about the book. What are you hoping people will get out of this community as you move forward?

Steve Waddell: One of my goals for this is when we launch in January, my plan is to have both free and paid courses in school.com. So you can learn how to implement what you’ve learned in the book. And we also probably will make a giveaway of one of our paid courses for. people that pre-register or pre-order the book. And you’ll get the course for free. So that’ll be one of the values we’re going to plan to offer for that. And, you know, when you think about the process, there’s so many things you can learn in the process itself. And we can communicate in school.com how others are using that and benefiting from it. And I’ll give you another example. When you file your provisional patent in step five, the very next step is you’ve got to make a license decision. People don’t think about this. You may not have the skills it takes to go build your prototype. And design a prototype and iterate that prototype until you’re ready for an MVP and all of that. And you may not want to go hire Noah or may not have the funds to go hire Noah and do all the rest of those things.

Noah McNeely: Wait, wait, wait. What now? Of course you don’t want to hire me.

Steven Julian: But, but, but. Let him finish.

Steve Waddell: That’s right. You may just be at a point where you should go licensed. You may be better off licensing your idea. And so that’s an off-ramp. avenue. However, if you have the funds and you want to go build that and make your product, and maybe you can’t do it yourself, then you can go hire Noah. But at least you have a process to follow prototyping, customer testing, and so on as you go around the process. And we’ve included even things in there, like step 10 is branding and trademarking. We do that when? Before we make our MVP. Why do we do that? Because part of making your MVP is the materials that go with it, such as the box. And the instructions, what do you got to have on that box? Your branding, right? So you need to understand all this in a process-oriented approach.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so Steve, one of the things that you and I were talking before that really I think is cool about your process is that, as you said to me, there’s a book about branding. There’s a book about creating an idea. There’s a book about selling an idea. But your process kind of hits all that and talks about what should come first and what you should strategize at different stages. Because you go out and. you read any of those other books, and they’re the most important thing ever because that’s the perspective they’re written from. But you’re really talking about the process as a whole, I think. Is that fair?

Steve Waddell: Yeah, spot on, Noah. And, you know, we have a big problem within the entrepreneurial community. And you can read about it in Forbes and other places where Nine out of 10 entrepreneurs are failing going to market.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, probably much higher with products.

Steve Waddell: Yeah, products are as much as 95% fail. That means only 5% are being successful. Well, we’ve had tools like Steve Blank’s customer development model been around for years. The business model canvas has been around for years. What’s the problem with them? Well, they’re not granular enough for a step-by-step process on how to go from idea to selling. So what I’ve done with entrepreneurs is, I’ve integrated both of those tools into this process. So now, as you go through and you’re going to do discovery interviews in step two, you’re going to identify who that customer is. You’re going to fill out a customer persona. So you’re doing part of the Steve Blank customer discovery. When you. get into step four, customer validation, you’re doing hypothesis testing. Again, that’s part of the Steve Blank development model. But at the same time, we have you also go into the business model canvas. And start filling out those sections of your business model canvas as well. So by the time you’re at Step 15, you’ve just about built your business model. You’ve interviewed all your customers. You’ve validated your hypotheses. And you’ve built a solid product.

Steven Julian: So, Steve, let me just–we’re kind of wrapping up here with Steve Waddell. He is with Nasoni, and he’s also written a book, Valuepreneurs. Let me kind of let you market your book for a little bit. Tell everybody when it’s coming out. Give kind of all the details because this–for our audience of product geniuses who are trying to bring their products to market or have and working on developing them further. I mean, this sounds like a clear must read, especially if the process is a little bit of a struggle or you kind of feel like you’re haphazard at times. And I think 100 percent of the audience would raise their hand at some point. I’ve. been there, done that, you know, got the T-shirt. Tell everybody about how they where they go to find the book and all that good stuff.

Steve Waddell: So, again, this is what I’ve learned over the past 10 years in bringing the Sony to life. But at the same time, it’s all of my process improvement experience from 25 years building nuclear powered aircraft carriers. And submarines at Newport News Shipbuilding, best ships in the world, and 11 years at my wife’s company. And so, you know, what we’re talking about is, Diapreneurs is a groundbreaking book designed to be the definitive guide for entrepreneurs eager to transform a brilliant idea into a successful product. And in today’s competitive landscape, it’s not enough to have an innovative idea. What matters is how well you can execute that idea and bring it to market. And as you know, if you don’t have a process to follow, What do you do? You end up doing steps over and over again, and you fail, and you add more risk to your process, and that adds cost. So we want to do it as lean and as affordable as we can. So the core principles. are you have an idea stage. That’s where you learn how to brainstorm effectively and ensure that your product idea aligns with market needs. Then we have a concept development stage. That’s where we understand how to develop your idea further through customer discovery interviews and initial customer validation. Then we have the prototype development stage. That’s where we dive into the specifics of creating a design model and gathering feedback through customer testing. Then we have the MVP development stage, and that’s how we discover to build your minimum viable product with just the essential features needed to satisfy early customers. And then lastly, but not least, is the launch and market introduction stage. That’s where we gain insights into successfully launching your product and generating initial sales. So the 15-step process. Is what’s crucial in the VDPD process or value-driven product development process. From brainstorming your initial product idea to selling your final product. Who should read it? Any aspiring entrepreneur looking for a comprehensive guide to product development. Business leaders and product managers aiming to streamline their development process. And anyone interested in understanding the challenges and opportunities inherent in bringing a product idea to fruition. One. thing I’d like to add is… You might have heard of the guy Chris Heidly. Chris was the co-founder of MapQuest. MapQuest sold for $1.2 billion. And he’s also author of what’s called Build the Fort. It’s a book about how do we build startup communities to help entrepreneurs grow and prosper. And he goes around the country at all these startup communities and he helps them in speaking about it. And I met Chris at a One Million Cups event here in Hampton Roads. And told him about the book. He ended up writing the forward for the book itself.

Noah McNeely: Cool.

Steven Julian: Yeah. So people can go to valuepreneurs.com. The book actually comes out in January of 2024. And they can also join the valuepreneurs community on school.com. Just search for valuepreneurs on school.com. And let me also say that if you need a fantastic faucet. That will keep you from cupping your hands or leaning your head, tilting your head and giving yourself a crick in your neck. Nasoni is N-A-S-O-N-I dot com. They can go to that website, see all the different stuff that you’re developing. By the way, just kind of circle back quickly, the grant and. the phase two and all that. Is any of that viewable of what you guys are doing on Nasoni? or because you’re still in the development phase, we can’t really show that to the public yet.

Steve Waddell: So two things. Let me back up. You can find Nasoni also on Wayfair. So if you like to shop on Wayfair and want to buy it on sale, just go to Wayfair and type in N-A-S-O-N-I in the search bar.

Noah McNeely: It is a beautiful faucet whether you want to brush your teeth or not.

Steven Julian: Yeah, just stand there and look at it. Watch it do its thing. It’s amazing.

Steve Waddell: That’s right. So thank you. And then as far as the award goes, when that gets awarded next week on Monday, we’ll be issuing a press release. And so when you go to our website, there’s a section on awards and you’ll be able to see the announcement there. If you go there now, you can see our phase one award and a link to the NIH website where they posted more details about what we’re doing there. Right.

Noah McNeely: And since we’re recording this episode in the past, by the time people hear it, it will already be posted.

Steven Julian: So go to nasoni.com and read the press release. I mean, I think it’s so cool that, and I got this, Steve, the last time we talked to you. Entrepreneurship is the American dream. I think it’s one of the dreams everybody chases. And if you do it long enough and if you do it well enough, and you can also do this from the beginning, but it’s amazing how the longer you do it, the more opportunity you have to give back. And so I know there’s probably, you know, we could, you know, there’s so much that you guys have been able to do and so many ways you’ve been able to give back, but for your product. To actually now pivot and develop to a point where it’s giving back to those in need in terms of those in wheelchairs and those who are dealing with all kinds of injuries. And your product that originally was functional for brushing my teeth is now functional for brushing my teeth for people who can’t do it the way we can do it, but still can do it. What a great way to give back. directly through your product working. And so kudos to you and hats off and all that kind of stuff. And this is incredibly not, you know, this is not professional at all, but I’m going to get out of your way. Is there anything we missed? Is there anything you want to say

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: