Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Honest advice for inventors—with obscure cultural references included at no extra charge.

Episode
220

No Bad Ideas? Brainstorming and Ideation Methods for Inventors and Product Developers

“The wrong way to brainstorm is to go into it saying anything other than the idea you already had is bad.”

Can a terrible idea help create a brilliant invention? Noah and Steven dive into practical brainstorming and product ideation methods that help inventors challenge assumptions, escape attachment to their first solution, and generate better product concepts. From forced combinations and unusual user perspectives to intentionally designing the worst possible solution, they explore ways to make brainstorming productive without hiring an expensive consultant—or building Frank’s highly questionable cheese hammer. Learn how to develop an invention by capturing bad ideas, building on unexpected connections, and finding smarter paths before committing serious money to engineering and manufacturing.

Core Topics for this episode:
  • Product Ideation
  • Product Development Process
(possibly) Obscure pop culture references you might hear during this episode of Product Genius include Cat 5 storm; Grand Poobah; Shark Tank; The Simpsons; Ned Flanders; Apples to Apples; Archimedes screw; ChatGPT; Buffalo Wild Wings; Jim Gaffigan; Frank’s Cheese Hammer
Key Takeaways Include:
Challenge Your Assumptions
Capture the Bad Ideas
Generate Broadly Before Evaluating
Listen here:
Episode Blog

No Bad Ideas? How Inventors Can Brainstorm Better Products

Inventors are often very good at falling in love.

Unfortunately, the object of their affection may be a rough garage prototype with three kinds of tape, a borrowed spring, and a feature that only makes sense after a fifteen-minute explanation.

That does not mean the invention is bad. It means the first solution should not automatically be treated as the only solution.

In this episode of Product Genius, Noah McNeely and Steven Julian explore practical brainstorming and ideation methods inventors can use to challenge assumptions, create alternative solutions, and improve a product before expensive engineering and manufacturing begin. Along the way, they also introduce the world to Frank’s Cheese Hammer—which may or may not become the next great kitchen innovation.

Start With a Problem Worth Solving

Brainstorming is not especially useful when the starting point is simply, “I want to invent something.”

Useful ideation begins with a problem, need, goal, or existing concept that deserves exploration. You might be trying to:

  • Find different ways to perform a function
  • Improve an existing prototype
  • Reduce manufacturing cost
  • Make a product easier to use
  • Adapt a product for a different customer
  • Generate product names, slogans, or packaging ideas
  • Solve a specific technical problem discovered during development

The problem provides the boundaries. The brainstorming process helps you explore what might be possible inside—and sometimes just outside—those boundaries.

Challenge the First Solution

The first idea often feels brilliant because it is the idea that created momentum. It may have arrived suddenly and solved a problem that had been frustrating you for years.

That emotional attachment can create a dangerous assumption:

“This is the best way to do it.”

Maybe it is. But until you challenge it, you do not really know.

Good brainstorming temporarily treats the current solution as only one candidate among many. Ask:

  • What if this mechanism did not exist?
  • What if the product could not use this material?
  • What if it had to cost half as much?
  • What if it had to be operated with one hand?
  • What if the user could not see, hear, grip, lift, or reach normally?
  • What if the product had to be repaired without tools?
  • What if the product were ten times larger—or ten times smaller?

These questions are not predictions of the final design. They are tools for loosening the mental grip of the original concept.

Write Down the Bad Ideas Too

The phrase “there are no bad ideas” is not exactly true.

There are terrible ideas. There are unsafe ideas, expensive ideas, impossible ideas, and ideas that should probably remain safely trapped inside the brainstorming session.

But those ideas still have value.

A ridiculous suggestion can reveal an overlooked principle. Someone might propose making a hammer magnetic. That may be a poor solution for the intended product, but it could trigger a useful discussion about holding nails in position, retrieving dropped fasteners, or storing accessories.

The goal during idea generation is not to judge. It is to capture.

Evaluation comes later.

If every idea is criticized the moment it appears, participants quickly stop taking risks. The session becomes a slow march back toward the solution everyone already knew.

Go Broad Before You Go Deep

A common brainstorming mistake is spending an hour optimizing a tiny detail while the larger product concept remains unchallenged.

Before debating shades of red or the exact curve of a handle, generate ideas across the full system:

  • Function
  • User experience
  • Materials
  • Manufacturing
  • Assembly
  • Storage
  • Maintenance
  • Packaging
  • Safety
  • Price
  • Distribution
  • Branding

Once the wide landscape has been explored, you can choose promising areas and go deeper.

That is when idea-building becomes useful. Revisit the list and ask how each concept could be expanded, combined, simplified, or reversed.

Force a Different User Perspective

One technique Noah recommends is imagining the product for a dramatically different user.

Suppose you are designing a hammer for a typical do-it-yourself homeowner. Now imagine designing it for:

  • Someone using crutches
  • A person with limited grip strength
  • A left-handed user
  • A child learning basic woodworking
  • A worker wearing heavy gloves
  • Someone operating in a confined space

The final product may never be marketed specifically to those people. That is not the point.

Designing for an unusual user forces you to notice assumptions about grip, reach, weight, balance, storage, safety, and operation. A feature created for a special circumstance may improve the experience for everyone.

Use Forced Combinations

Forced combinations deliberately connect unrelated ideas.

Noah recalls participating in a medical-device brainstorming session where his team drew two random words: ladder and shovel. Those objects had no obvious relationship to a feeding device.

But by examining what each object did, the team arrived at the idea of an auger—something like a continuous spiral of small shovels climbing upward. That connection suggested a manually powered Archimedes screw that could potentially move liquid nutrition through a feeding tube.

The concept did not become a commercial product, but it was a legitimate solution generated from an intentionally absurd combination.

You can use ordinary cards, household objects, random words, or an AI tool to create these combinations. Ask:

“How could this product borrow something from a ladder, a zipper, a bicycle, a stapler, or a vending machine?”

Most combinations will go nowhere. A few may lead somewhere no conventional discussion would have reached.

Brainstorm the Worst Solution

Another useful technique is intentionally designing the worst possible version.

Ask:

  • What material would fail fastest?
  • What shape would be hardest to hold?
  • What feature would confuse every customer?
  • What manufacturing process would cost the most?
  • What would make the product impossible to repair?
  • What would guarantee terrible reviews?

This exercise is entertaining, but it also exposes real failure modes. Once the worst attributes are visible, reverse them.

The heaviest possible product suggests a weight target. The most confusing control layout highlights the need for intuitive operation. The least manufacturable geometry points toward simpler forms.

Sometimes the fastest route to a good requirement is defining its terrible opposite.

Build on Other People’s Ideas

Brainstorming does not require an expensive consultant, rented event center, catered lunch, or proprietary process with a trademark symbol.

It can be as simple as two people exchanging ideas.

Each person writes down a concept, swaps papers, and adds to the other person’s idea. The papers continue moving back and forth until the ideas stop growing.

This technique reduces ownership. Instead of defending “my idea,” participants are collaboratively building something neither person created alone.

A few trusted friends, pizza, and perhaps a responsible quantity of beer may produce more practical value than a corporate brainstorming spectacle with matching lanyards.

Use AI to Expand the Session

Artificial intelligence can also support brainstorming, especially when you are working alone.

You might ask an AI tool to:

  • Generate alternative mechanisms
  • List objects that perform a similar function
  • Suggest unusual user groups
  • Create random word combinations
  • Critique a proposed feature
  • Generate intentionally terrible solutions
  • Identify assumptions hidden in a product description

The output should not be treated as engineering truth. AI suggestions may be impractical, unsafe, or completely detached from physics.

That is okay during idea generation.

The purpose is not to let AI invent the product for you. It is to expose you to directions you might not have considered.

Capture Everything

Ideas disappear quickly.

Use paper, notes, a whiteboard, a shared document, photographs, voice recordings, or whatever system helps you capture the session. If you use a dry-erase board, photograph it before someone helpfully wipes away the next great invention.

Do not rely on remembering the “good ones.” An idea that appears useless today may become relevant after a prototype failure reveals a new constraint.

Your brainstorming record becomes part of the product-development history. It documents what was considered, what was rejected, and which directions may deserve another look.

The Product Genius Take

The wrong way to brainstorm is to begin with the conclusion that your existing idea is already perfect.

Strong inventors challenge their own assumptions before the market, factory, or customer does it for them. They generate broadly, capture the bad ideas, force strange combinations, explore different users, and build on the thinking of others.

At the end of the process, your original concept may still be the best answer. If so, you have strengthened your confidence by testing alternatives.

Or you may discover a simpler, cheaper, safer, or more valuable solution.

Either way, brainstorming has done its job.

And somewhere in the process, Frank may finally find a market for that cheese hammer.

Or, read the full transcript here:

Steven Julian

Don't be blown away by a Cat5 brainstorm. Instead, get in that brainstorming session. Learn what it is. Learn how to do it. Learn that there are such things as bad ideas, but you can use them and learn. most importantly about Frank's Cheese Hammers. next on Product Genius.

Noah McNeely

Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Steven Julian

Well, you've come to the right place.

Noah McNeely

Welcome to Product Genius.

Steven Julian

The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he's here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let's get started. Here's your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. That's my line, yes. It's your Slightly Annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Welcome to another hopefully one day award-winning edition of Product Genius. With me as always from the lair of Product Quickstart, it is the president, CEO, founder, Chief Poobah. He who must be listened to.

Why? Because he has that 20 years of experience in product development. It's Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely

Yeah, technically the title is Grand Poobah. Grand Poobah.

Steven Julian

What. did I say? Chief Poobah?

Noah McNeely

You said Chief Poobah. Until last year, that was the title. Then I got a promotion. Wow.

Steven Julian

Up to grand. What comes after grand poobah?

Noah McNeely

Extreme poobah.

Steven Julian

I thought that would be the younger, more hip, upstart, you know, extreme poobah, but, you know, that's all right. So we'll, we'll, you, isn't there three degrees of brand poobah before you get to extreme poobah?

Noah McNeely

Um, they haven't told me yet.

Steven Julian

Oh, no, you haven't gotten to that level yet.

Noah McNeely

All right. You have to go through some ceremonies.

Steven Julian

You're going to your first grand poobah meeting later this month.

Noah McNeely

That's right.

Steven Julian

Welcome to another edition of Product Genius. Sorry for the...

Noah McNeely

We're all sorry about that.

Steven Julian

Yeah, exactly. Can't get those two minutes back. You could fast forward to them. But now, anyway, we've got a great topic today. We've got a great discussion. And Noah, do you want to give a little bit of the backstory of what led you to, because I kind of liked you said, hey, last couple episodes we've been doing, you feel like you've kind of been on this little bit of a crusade. And so this is a. little bit of a give back after the crusade.

Noah McNeely

A couple of episodes we've done recently, I've been more or less on a rant about bad companies, companies to avoid, how not to be taken advantage of. But we haven't really done a lot of kind of how to and put this into practice kind of shows. So I was like, you know, what can we talk about? that people can actually go out and do rather than just what to avoid, what to do.

Steven Julian

So you were brainstorming some good ideas for the show and you went, hey. Maybe we should do a show about brainstorming. And ideation, I believe, is a word you used.

Noah McNeely

Yeah, I used that word because there are a lot of people that use a lot of different words, basically meaning the same thing. That way they can write books and they can get paid to write books and they can be consultants. And, oh, I have a proprietary ideation brainstorm process. And, yeah, not really. But, hey, if that helps you sell your business, go for it. But there's a lot of people out there. And I'm ranting again. I'm talking about things. to avoid.

Steven Julian

Bring it back. Bring it back. Now I know my job. Okay. So we are going to talk, we're talking, of course, about inventors and product developers and people who are doing their product-based business and bringing their product to market. So we're not talking about the brainstorming and the idea of coming up with the idea that you have to have the problem that you're trying to solve. You have to have, we are talking about the people who have the concept or who have maybe started the process. Of inventing the product or getting the product to market.

We're really kind of talking about that brainstorming and what the next step, I guess, would be. And actually, I want to start with this. This whole topic can be tough for inventors. Why?

Noah McNeely

Well, it can be for a couple of reasons. And to your first point, who it's for, if you're just sitting around saying, I want to invent something. Brainstorm is not going to help you. You at least have to start with a problem to solve. Or the part that's tough for inventors sometimes is they've already solved a problem. They have their garage. prototype. They have their first idea. And a lot of times inventors have a tough time of imagining there might be better ways to do what they've already come up with just because it's not your fault.

You're close to it. You've been working on it. It's kind of your baby. And it's really tough to break out of that mold and say, Really, let me challenge this and see if I can brainstorm or ideate improvements or different ways to do it that might even be better than what I've already got.

Steven Julian

So?

Noah McNeely

So that's what's tough for inventors. Yeah, yeah. To answer your specific question.

Steven Julian

Got it. So where would you start with? saying, okay, so I guess can we define, you know. Because this can look a lot of different ways and you can go about it a lot of different ways. So rather than saying, oh, there's only one way to do it, I know you're not going to say that. What is it and why should someone be looking to do this?

Noah McNeely

So fundamentally what brainstorming or ideation is about is about getting as many possible ideas on paper or, you know, captured in notes. or whatever as you can. They're going to be good ideas. They're going to be bad ideas. They're going to be ideas. They're like, this is silly. I don't even know why I'm writing this down. But it's the process of capturing all of that. And that's what brainstorming ideation is all about. The reason you should do it is, again, your idea may not. Well, number one, you might simply be solving a problem.

You don't have the idea yet. So this might be a way to create potential solutions or partial solutions or bits and pieces of solutions that can be combined into a real solution. And sometimes I think this is more valuable. You've already, as an inventor, you've already got your idea and you're like, this is great. Well, taking a step back and brainstorming will help you make it better or maybe find an even better way. that's going to be much easier to get to the market, much cheaper for the consumer, works better, whatever it is.

But that's, again, that's the tough thing is to break out of that, hey, my idea is great to the point of, okay, let me challenge that. idea with brainstorming or ideation.

Steven Julian

There are some people who are listening to this who are only five minutes into the show and they heard that and they go, well, I can't do that. I'm not good at that. I'm terrible at that. So they may want to turn this off and I'm going to ask a question that may keep them on the episode. And in addition to that, there may be people who aren't saying that, who aren't saying, oh, I'm not good at that. But longtime listeners of this show and longtime people who've interacted with you through this podcast or even in person.

We'll know that sometimes there are inventors and product developers who don't realize that they need to step back and brainstorm. They think, oh, I got it. I know what I, you know, they don't know yet that their baby's ugly and they need to be kind of told that. So either because they don't know or they do know and they're like, I can't do this. I'm not good at this. Just because you might not be able to do this, this still is something they can look at because it can. involve someone else, right?

Noah McNeely

Uh, yeah. So that was a really, there were a lot of words in that question.

Steven Julian

Um, can I, if I can't do this myself, am I, am I just, well, forget it. You can't do it.

Noah McNeely

You're screwed. So one, I would say you probably can do it yourself. You just maybe don't know how to start. And we'll talk about that in a few minutes. Two. On the other end of the spectrum, there are people out there that are brainstorm experts and you can easily go pay them thousands, tens of thousands, however many dollars you want to pay them to help you with this. As an inventor entrepreneur, I don't recommend that unless you're just, you know, if you've got lots of money, you know, go for it.

But in general, most inventor entrepreneurs should not be spending their money that way. I have been in my earlier parts of my career, I have led brainstorm, you know, brainstorm exercises for big companies. We were paid thousands of dollars to do that, and it resulted in some good ideas. And I've been part of brainstorms that were actually commissioned by really big. companies, and they paid this brainstorm expert to come in. I think they probably paid her and her team $30,000 or $40,000 to put this whole big event on. They ran this really nice place.

It's one of those event center type places. you go there, and you're just like, oh, that's nice. That's nice. How much did that cost? And they had brought in all this fancy food and everything. I had a good time and they paid me to be there. At the end of the day, I don't know if they got any better ideas than if we'd just done it in my office or if I'd just done it on Zoom with these.

Steven Julian

So just to understand you're paying for a party.

Noah McNeely

This was pre-Zoom, but even if we'd done it on Zoom, we probably would have come out with, we wouldn't come out with as many ideas, but a lot of the best ideas would have been the same.

Steven Julian

At least if you're going to do that and pay someone else, get a good party out of it, right? Get a good couple meals or a day in an event center. Although based on the. last conversation we just had with Zach Ratner, Author of Grow Up Fast, you know, if nothing else, rather than pay someone else, at least potentially put something into AI and ask for some evaluation out of AI. You could do that for pennies on the dollar or even for free.

Noah McNeely

Right. So a couple of ways to do it on your own without anybody at all. If you're asocial and don't have any friends and just want to be by yourself and do it.

Steven Julian

How did you know?

Noah McNeely

Well, I've been asocial and didn't have friends at different points in my life. So, you know, I know what it's like.

Steven Julian

Takes one to no one.

Noah McNeely

Well, engineers, you know how we are. Yeah, so there are some techniques. you can do just sitting in a coffee shop all by yourself. Maybe we can talk about a couple of those later in the episode. But then that whole chat GPT thing, definitely go listen to the Zach Ratner episode. He did talk about a lot of cool things there. But one version of that is you can go to chat GPT and say, let's say your idea. Let's say you're. working on a new kind of hammer. It's like, I have a hammer that's going to do this.

Give me some ideas and it'll give you some ideas and they're probably going to mostly be bad, but that's okay because some of those, just like in a brainstorm of people, some of those bad ideas may prompt you to come up with a better idea. So I didn't think about my hammer should be magnetic and that's a bad idea for this, that, and the other reason, but maybe it's a good reason or maybe it leads to a much better idea. So there are a lot of ways you can do this on your own without paying anybody anything.

And if you really need some people to bounce ideas off, Just get your buddies. Go buy pizza and a round of beers. You can do some great brainstorming there. And frankly, the ideas may get more creative the more beers you have.

Steven Julian

Again, I'm looking into the return on investment. If you're going to involve other people, at least get a good meal out of it. At least get a good time out of it. At least go to. a good event space. Or, you know, Buffalo Wild Wings, they didn't pay me to say that. Or your favorite, you know, gather around and get a couple beers. Okay, so you've kind of talked about what it is. So let's get into how to do it. or how have you done it? or how have you seen others do it?

How do I do that?

Noah McNeely

So like I said, there's a lot of books.

Steven Julian

Are there rules I need to follow? Well, I'll ask it that way.

Noah McNeely

I don't like the word rules in this context. Oh, okay.

Steven Julian

Well, forget I said that.

Noah McNeely

Because everybody's different and we all find that we're most efficient doing things in our own way sometimes. So there are books. Like I said, people write books on brainstorming. They come up with their proprietary names. You buy the book and, you know, you help them make a boat payment or whatever they're trying to do. So people have different rules for brainstorming. That's fine. That's all legit. You may find one of those books and say, hey, this works for me. That's what I'm going to do. I generally find that there's bits and. pieces of good techniques in some of these books.

And they're just a few things that I've found over the course of 25 years that are sort of. More or less consistent that really work for me. You may find slightly variations of these work for you, but it kind of comes down to a few things. One, my first non-rule slash rule is challenging the assumptions. So you as an inventor, let's say, again, you've got your idea. You've already got it. You've got your garage prototype. You've got, hey, this is the best way to do it. I can't imagine another way to do it.

Well, that's your number. one assumption you're going to challenge is, I'm assuming this is the best way, but let me just... Let me just challenge, let me say this is not the best way to do it. I'm going to brainstorm starting at that point. You may have an assumption, you know, with the hammer thing. I'm assuming it's going to have a metal head. Well, challenge that assumption. I'm assuming it's going to have a handle that's a foot long. Challenge that assumption. All these different things, challenge the assumptions. Don't, even if that leads you into some silly directions, don't worry about that.

Well, you know, there are no bad ideas, but there are bad ideas. We'll talk about that in a minute. So the second kind of. Rule non-rule is go broad. Don't focus on one little thing. Like if you spend an entire two hours brainstorming what color to paint the handle of your hammer, that's not a good use of time. You need to go much broader than that. Get a wide array of ideas on the table. If you feel like you're going too deep into one thing, just take a step back. Don't think about that thing.

Think about another thing. A very common rule. That you'll read. And this, frankly.

Steven Julian

I thought there were no. I think you didn't like the rules.

Noah McNeely

Well, a very common rule that people write in their books.

Steven Julian

That you're challenging the assumption of them using the word rule. But go ahead.

Noah McNeely

All right. You're getting circular on me here. A very.

Steven Julian

Just trying to irritate you.

Noah McNeely

And frankly, people that have been in corporate settings and they've done brainstorming, this is the one rule slash non-rule that they. probably experience their life. that makes them think brainstorming is stupid and non-productive. And the thing people always say is there are no bad ideas. Well, you and I both know there are bad ideas.

Steven Julian

Yes, absolutely.

Noah McNeely

But a better way to express that is we want the bad ideas too. So even those bad ideas, even though you're like, you bring the person in the brainstorm, it's like, Frank's going to give me the stupidest ideas in the world. Write them down because one of Frank's stupid ideas. May lead to a much better idea down the road.

Steven Julian

I thought we were going to have to apologize to Frank, our listener, but actually, yeah, Frank might be able to help us.

Noah McNeely

That's right. We love Frank. Frank is just the name I use.

Steven Julian

We want Frank's ideas, too, because they can help us.

Noah McNeely

Frank is an imaginary persona who always has bad ideas.

Steven Julian

I believe the official slightly annoying, any resemblance to actual or fictional characters is strictly. Okay, I apologize.

Noah McNeely

That's okay.

Steven Julian

I'm getting the lie from Noah because he doesn't want to get off track.

Noah McNeely

I don't know where you're going with that.

Steven Julian

We want the bad. ideas too. Okay.

Noah McNeely

And then another rule slash non-rule is, you know, build on the ideas. You know, you write it on paper, you go through it and you kind of reach the end of, you know, your energy is like, hey, none of us, you're drinking the beer, you're eating the peach. You're like, okay, we're kind of running out of energy here. Go back through the ideas and say, okay, let's take this one. Let's brainstorm just that one. What can we do to add to that? And you go through the whole list and you'll find typically that you, You end up with some deeper thoughts that way and some new directions.

Steven Julian

You also had, I know one of the things we were also talking about is, and I think you said this at the very beginning, get everything down, get as much down on paper or type it out or whatever. Get it somewhere where you can refer back to it, right?

Noah McNeely

Yeah, absolutely. So whatever works for you. I do it on paper. You can do it on a dry erase board. Just be sure to take a picture when you're done. And I did. make the mistake once early in my career of erasing the dry erase board before I recorded it. You know, just be careful. That doesn't happen to you. But just get it all. Capture it all. I don't care how silly or ridiculous the idea seems. Just write it down.

Steven Julian

Why?

Noah McNeely

Because, again, Frank's silly idea may lead to a much better idea. So, you know, Frank says something about, oh, well, why don't we use the hammer on cheese? Well, that may lead down the road. Well, maybe some people do have hard cheese and in their kitchen, if they had a cheese hammer, they could break it up and that's better than a cheese grater. Who knows? That got really ridiculous.

Steven Julian

I think I just had an idea for a cheese hammer. We've got Jody cracking up over here. All right. So when we're talking about brainstorming ideation, the future book that Noah is going to launch in a year or two after he has AI write it for him.

Noah McNeely

I'm going to call it the non-rules of brainstorming. That's right.

Steven Julian

I like rule non-rule. The rule non-rule. So I like that.

Noah McNeely

We'll co-author it.

Steven Julian

So brainstorming. Getting. as many ideas as possible and kind of how do I do it, the rules non-rules of challenging assumptions, going broad. We want the bad ideas too, and you can try to build on those ideas and get it all on paper. I'm assuming this is one of the things. that's a rule non-rule. This can be a one-time, I'm going to sit down and take a few hours and think about things. This could be something. That you have going on over time. I have a notebook of ideas, right?

Noah McNeely

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, different people work at different paces. You know, a typical project, I may have several brainstorm slash ideation periods during that project, especially if I run into new problems to solve. I'll take that step back and brainstorm that problem. And it may go back and change something that we solved earlier, but that's okay.

Steven Julian

All right. So from rule non-rule, we're going to go to technique non-technique.

Noah McNeely

Right now, I'm guessing some people are listening to this and they're thinking, what do I do? Just sit down and write stuff out? That sounds like making a list.

Steven Julian

You want me to journal? I. already heard that from my literature professor. I don't want to do that.

Noah McNeely

Exactly. This sounds like work without any benefit. There are some techniques. There's a bunch of techniques out there. Some of them work for different people. Some of them work for others. There's just a few that I found work really well for me. And I'm going to share those with you. You may find none of these work for you because you and I may be very different people, but there are, you know, like I said, there's a ton of books out there. Don't take any one of those books and read it as the absolute Bible of brainstorming, but there might be things in there that you can benefit from.

So one of the interesting techniques I have here on my paper is what I call forcing a very different user perspective. So again, back to your hammer. So you've got this hammer. Maybe you're designed this hammer.

Steven Julian

Are we still on the cheese hammer or is this a different hammer?

Noah McNeely

No, this is back to baseline hammer. Starting with a hammer. Let's say you're developing a hammer for just, you know, mainline people. doing DIY projects. Force yourself to take it. And you're taking that about as far as you're going to take it without doing some brainstorming. So force yourself to take a step back. Okay, how would I design or develop this hammer? What features would this hammer need to have if it were for people on crutches? That's going to be a very different need set than just someone that's a standard DIY user.

And why would you do this? Well, how many people on crutches are going to use a hammer? That's not the point. The point is, you may, as you're solving the problem of what does a person on crutches need a hammer to do or need in a hammer to use that, You may identify an improvement that works for everybody, and that can go back into your main idea. Now, am I saying that you should always do something for a person on crutches? No, that's just one random example.

Steven Julian

Every time I ideate, okay, I got to think of a person on crutches for somebody at Shark Tank.

Noah McNeely

Why are people bringing us all these ideas for people on crutches? What the heck, man?

Steven Julian

I went to Ned Flanders of The Simpsons and his left-handed store. That's where I went.

Noah McNeely

There you go. I like personal corrections. Oddly enough, I'm working on a hammer now. It involves left-handed people, and I can't talk about it other than that. Wow. That was very bizarre.

Steven Julian

I got a scoop.

Noah McNeely

You did get a scoop.

Steven Julian

The next technique.

Noah McNeely

Next technique is what I call forced combinations. So I was in this brainstorm event one time, and we did this technique. And they had all these cards, and they had different objects. Written on the different names of objects written on the cards. And what we were doing were actually, it was a medical device. We're working on a way it's, this was 20 years ago. So it's, you know, I can talk about it now. It's all, it's way in, it's, it's way in the past, but we're working on a device for people that have ports that they can't eat food normally.

Like they've had a surgery or they have a, you know, they're in chemotherapy or whatever it is. And they have this port on their stomach called. They're different ones, but basically a G-tube. or a gastrotube. And you would push liquid food into this tube. We actually, when my daughter was experiencing chemotherapy years ago, and if you don't know the story, she's doing great. So, you know, it's all good now. But this was five years ago. She had one of these ports and, you know, we had this machine. You would hook up a bag of food and it would...

Pump it in there at the right pace and everything is very controlled, you know, very FDA specific ways of doing it. But anyway, we were trying to develop a new, a different technique for that. And the cards I and my partner in this event drew were a ladder and a shovel. So it's like, okay, you're thinking, well, that's just. How are we going to connect a ladder and a shovel together? And then how are we going to connect that to this G-tube feeding process? So we were silent for a little while, looking at each other like, you got any ideas?

You got any ideas? I don't have any ideas. But then all of a sudden it's like, well, wait a minute, let's think about it. Okay. If we did put it, what's kind of, what's the ladder do? It's like these steps and it goes up one step at a time. What's a shovel do? And, you know, it moves dirt. And then we got to thinking of, well, wait a minute, there's something kind of like that. It's an auger. You know, an auger is something you go, you dig holes out in the yard with it.

It's got this basic screw that goes around and it's like a shovel slash ladder. It's a shovel ladder combo. So then we're like, okay, how could we apply that to this G-tube thing? Actually, we came up with a solution. What if you had this auger or what engineering nerds like myself would call an Archimedes screw that actually pumps the fluid into the G-tube? That one did actually never go anywhere, but it was a decent idea. These days, we have these electronic devices that do it. But imagine you were in a developing country where they can't afford these electronic pumps.

Well, maybe a parent could have one of these G-tube feeders where they do turn a crank and it's this little Archimedes screw pumping. the food in. So that really silly ladder plus shovel. Led to a good idea. Not one they actually developed, but it was still a good idea. All right. I went up really on time on that particular technique.

Steven Julian

It was a good story.

Noah McNeely

It was a good story. Next technique, focus on only one thing. Ignore everything else. Maximize that one thing. So still back to our hammer. Just focus on the claw that pulls the nails out. Don't worry about the handle. Don't worry about the head. Imagine you were just developing a product to pull nails out and you just brainstorm around that. And again, you may find elements of that that go into your full product design down the road.

Steven Julian

When you're focusing on the one thing, are we now back to? there is no bad idea, we want all the ideas?

Noah McNeely

We're always doing that. Write everything down. And we may not cover it in this episode, but at least in a future episode, we'll talk about how to use all those things.

Steven Julian

So we've talked about go broad, but then you also have to focus on just one thing. You have to... You know, ignore everything else, maximize one thing. How do I make this thing better than everything else?

Noah McNeely

And these are all techniques you use after you've done your baseline brainstorming. Okay, write down all the ideas you have on the top of your head. I should have said, do that first. And then when you kind of run out of energy, then you use these techniques to go deeper and further. Another technique is what I call idea building. This is one you cannot do yourself. You do need at least one other person. And the idea here is you each write down an idea. The basic premise of this is you each write down an idea on a sheet of paper, then you swap papers, and then you build on that idea.

And then you swap back and you keep building until you kind of run out of things you can add to that. One that's kind of a fun one I've done in the past, actually have yielded some good results, is brainstorm the worst solution. Okay, what is the worst feature we could put on a hammer? What are the worst things we can make a hammer out? of? What's the worst ergonomic configuration for a hammer? And you do that. And that actually sometimes leads you to, okay, flip it now, what's the best?

And that can lead to some interesting results. Some tools and techniques you can use beyond that. Especially if you're by yourself, you can get a game that has cards in it. Like one. that's good is Apples to Apples because it has all these cards with different objects and things on it. That's really good for this force combinations technique. Sometimes you can just pick. Pick one card and think about, okay, my problem, how does this card relate to that? Spend a minute. Can I relate them in any way? Maybe that leads to a good idea.

If not, you just draw another card.

Steven Julian

Here again, I think AI could probably play a role in this, right? So creating cards or a list of words around the topic you're thinking about or the one thing you're focusing on.

Noah McNeely

Right. And I think something I probably need to try a little more is actually So reworking some of these techniques within the bounds of a ChatGPT or an AI. I think about, you know, what does a hammer do? A hammer pushes nails into a surface. Let's just start there. So ChatGPT, give me different objects or different products or different items that push nails into surfaces. And it will give you a hammer, it will give you, you know, the hammer gun or all sorts of different things. And then you can say, okay.

Yeah. Give me, give me things other than nails that are pushed in. You have all this thing. You take some of those words and say, okay, Chad GPT, if I were to combine, you know, the ladder and the shovel, what do I get? And that may give you a good idea. It may give you a silly idea, but at least it's something that gets you to thinking in ways you weren't thinking before. And that's really what brainstorming is, is kind of about.

Steven Julian

So there's no right or wrong way to do it. It's just wrong to not do it.

Noah McNeely

Yeah, I agree. Is that fair? I agree. The wrong way to do it is to go into it. saying anything other than the idea you already had is bad. That's a wrong way. to do it. And the right way to do it for you is going to be different than the right way to do it for me or for Steven or for anyone else. The right way to do it is whatever helps you to get the widest array of the most diverse ideas on paper efficiently.

Steven Julian

Well, Noah, we're going to have a very quick brainstorming ideation session in the midst of this episode. And I'm going to challenge your assumption because you have more that you want to say about this. I do. But we've entered that magic period of time where I think.

Noah McNeely

Yeah, it's too much to finish in this episode.

Steven Julian

To not do it. well. Exactly. And it might not be enough to do an entire second episode about it, but I think you probably could brainstorm and ideate some other things to add to the thing you gave me ahead of show. So we will tease that at least one of the things that we've yet to talk about around this topic would be kind of after you do all this brainstorming, ideation, so what? Now what? What do we do with this? How do? I? You know, what's the end result or what some of the things I could get out of it?

So I think that'd be, I'm going to brainstorm and say we should stop the topic right here.

Noah McNeely

Well, at this point, you've gone through these, what we've talked about. You probably have several pages of ideas. Most of them are horrible, silly ideas. And you're wondering, okay, what do I do with these? Cheese hammer.

Steven Julian

What am I going to do with a cheese hammer?

Noah McNeely

Well, that's stuff that we can talk about, I think, when we get to the what I do with all this stuff episode.

Steven Julian

Oh, I like that. What do I do with all this stuff? Coming soon to a podcasting platform near you. So give our listeners kind of an ending piece of advice of what are – somebody's listening to this and they've never really done it or they've just found failure in this. They're not good at it or they just never thought about it. Can you – and again, there are no rules, rule non-rule. Take 20 minutes? Or is it just as simple as, you know, figure out what it is? they can do?

Is it get a beer with a friend? Is it sit in a quiet room? What's the thing that if you said, hey, if I could do this, you would actually do it and start this process? Was that what you would say? Do something.

Noah McNeely

Yeah. So if any of my techniques or any techniques you read in a book, they don't work for you, that's okay. Find something that does. And the whole purpose of this is you want to generate ideas. Let's not worry about how bad the ideas are right now. We'll worry about that next time. But you need to generate ideas, and they need to be ideas that challenge your preconceived notions coming into the process. Again, a lot of inventors are just stuck in the space of what they've already created is the best possible version.

I've been there. A lot of people end up there. When you have this epiphany, you're like, oh, this is amazing. It's hard to break out of that. You've got to force yourself to do that. You've got to force yourself to take a step back and say, okay, if this isn't the best idea, what are some other ways to do it? At the end of the day, you may come back to that being the best idea, but in that case, you have validated that idea to some extent. And the worst case, you find a better way to do it and you just have a much better product when you launch than what you were going to have to start with.

Steven Julian

Would it be safe for us to say if anybody has had a wonderful experience with brainstorming and ideation, they take one of these ideas and they maybe make it their own and they get some benefit out of it, they could probably use the Contact Us form at productquickstart.com and kind of tell you about their success story.

Noah McNeely

Yeah, we'd love to hear about it. Of course, you can write a book. Lots of people have written books about their success in brainstorming. Of course, it's what works for them, not necessarily what works for everybody. Yeah, we'd love to hear about it if you have success with this.

Steven Julian

I enjoyed this brainstorming session. I enjoyed this ideation.

Noah McNeely

One thing I should definitely point out, it's not just about your. product. I mean, you might brainstorm your logo. You might brainstorm your product name. You might brainstorm your slogan for your company. These techniques apply across the board. It's not just, you know, the widget itself. Sometimes you get stuck on a product name. It's like, oh, well, maybe there's 10 better ways to do that name. And maybe that name is offensive to somebody and I didn't think about it. You know, brainstorm ways to do that.

Steven Julian

So I'm here for comedic purposes and obscure references. I think I'm going to go brainstorm more vegan options. Long time listeners will appreciate that. Jody and Noah got a laugh out of it. Thank you for bringing this. This is a topic that is worth coming back to. So we will come back to this topic sooner rather than later. I think it'll probably be the next show after the Flash of Genius or something like that. So just be looking for part two.

Noah McNeely

The first assumption I might challenge with that one is do vegans really exist? I'm kidding. I know some vegans, they do exist. But I always wonder, do they eat bacon when no one's watching? Yeah.

Steven Julian

Well, I love Gaffigan's thing about that. No meat eaters go, hey, I'd like a burger and can you make it look like tofu? But yet we make all this vegan food look like burgers. And then he says, you know, does steak ever call me? Does it ever ask about me?

Noah McNeely

I'm going to drive by meat's house.

Steven Julian

I ain't missing you at all. All right. The show has officially gone off the rails, which is probably the time for us to wrap it up. Want to remind everybody that... Product Genius is brought to you by ProductQuickstart.com, also brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Go to ProductQuickstart.com. There's a contact us form. Do not, and it's funny, Noah, you said, should I pay someone to help me? Not necessarily with brainstorming and ideation, but they can reach out to ProductQuickstart and they can, for a very reasonable fee, get some time with you to help them with their project along.

You don't need to help them with the brainstorming. That's something they can do on their own. Absolutely.

Noah McNeely

Now, you may reach a point where you do need to pay someone, but what I'm saying is that doesn't need. to be first time every time. You can take this a long way on your own.

Steven Julian

And the more you do it on your own, the more you save your money for other things that you're going to need to get that product developed and bring it to market before it benefits you.

Noah McNeely

I'm a big fan of don't pay me or anyone else to do stuff you can do on your own. There you go. I'm at a point in my career where I don't need to finagle anyone into doing a project with me. What I'm after is success stories at this point.

Steven Julian

And what you help them with is the things they can't do themselves, like 3D printing, the engineering side that is a whole other show and other shows that you've heard in the past. So go to productquickstart.com, fill out their contact us form, tell them what you're looking for. help in, and Noah won't waste your time. Please don't waste his by putting in there, call me, I've got a great idea. Great. Figure it out and then call me when you're ready to actually develop it and I'll help you do that.

Noah McNeely

I'll. tell you what, anyone that mentions vegan options, I will give a 1% discount to.

Steven Julian

So I got everybody a 1% discount. See what came out of this brainstorming ideation session? A discount to our listeners. Just put vegan options. Don't put that as the only thing because then he's going to charge you 30% more when he actually works with you. But put it at the end of your contact us form and the stuff you want to talk to him about. I like that. I like that. Well done. For Noah McNeely and for our producer, Jody Smith, go to jodysmith.com if you want to learn how to podcast yourself.

And for Steven Julian, your slightly annoying co-host, independent financial advisor who does brainstorming and ideation about investments, but I can't talk about that or compliance will get on me. For all of us around the table, we're going to go back into the lair and we'll see you next time on Product Genius.