Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Don’t be blown away by a Cat5 brainstorm. Instead, get in that brainstorming session. Learn what it is. Learn how to do it. Learn that there are such things as bad ideas, but you can use them and learn. most importantly about Frank’s Cheese Hammers. next on Product Genius.

Noah McNeely: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place.

Noah McNeely: Welcome to Product Genius.

Steven Julian: The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. That’s my line, yes. It’s your Slightly Annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Welcome to another hopefully one day award-winning edition of Product Genius. With me as always from the lair of Product Quickstart, it is the president, CEO, founder, Chief Poobah. He who must be listened to. Why? Because he has that 20 years of experience in product development. It’s Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, technically the title is Grand Poobah. Grand Poobah.

Steven Julian: What. did I say? Chief Poobah?

Noah McNeely: You said Chief Poobah. Until last year, that was the title. Then I got a promotion. Wow.

Steven Julian: Up to grand. What comes after grand poobah?

Noah McNeely: Extreme poobah.

Steven Julian: I thought that would be the younger, more hip, upstart, you know, extreme poobah, but, you know, that’s all right. So we’ll, we’ll, you, isn’t there three degrees of brand poobah before you get to extreme poobah?

Noah McNeely: Um, they haven’t told me yet.

Steven Julian: Oh, no, you haven’t gotten to that level yet.

Noah McNeely: All right. You have to go through some ceremonies.

Steven Julian: You’re going to your first grand poobah meeting later this month.

Noah McNeely: That’s right.

Steven Julian: Welcome to another edition of Product Genius. Sorry for the…

Noah McNeely: We’re all sorry about that.

Steven Julian: Yeah, exactly. Can’t get those two minutes back. You could fast forward to them. But now, anyway, we’ve got a great topic today. We’ve got a great discussion. And Noah, do you want to give a little bit of the backstory of what led you to, because I kind of liked you said, hey, last couple episodes we’ve been doing, you feel like you’ve kind of been on this little bit of a crusade. And so this is a. little bit of a give back after the crusade.

Noah McNeely: A couple of episodes we’ve done recently, I’ve been more or less on a rant about bad companies, companies to avoid, how not to be taken advantage of. But we haven’t really done a lot of kind of how to and put this into practice kind of shows. So I was like, you know, what can we talk about? that people can actually go out and do rather than just what to avoid, what to do.

Steven Julian: So you were brainstorming some good ideas for the show and you went, hey. Maybe we should do a show about brainstorming. And ideation, I believe, is a word you used.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I used that word because there are a lot of people that use a lot of different words, basically meaning the same thing. That way they can write books and they can get paid to write books and they can be consultants. And, oh, I have a proprietary ideation brainstorm process. And, yeah, not really. But, hey, if that helps you sell your business, go for it. But there’s a lot of people out there. And I’m ranting again. I’m talking about things. to avoid.

Steven Julian: Bring it back. Bring it back. Now I know my job. Okay. So we are going to talk, we’re talking, of course, about inventors and product developers and people who are doing their product-based business and bringing their product to market. So we’re not talking about the brainstorming and the idea of coming up with the idea that you have to have the problem that you’re trying to solve. You have to have, we are talking about the people who have the concept or who have maybe started the process. Of inventing the product or getting the product to market. We’re really kind of talking about that brainstorming and what the next step, I guess, would be. And actually, I want to start with this. This whole topic can be tough for inventors. Why?

Noah McNeely: Well, it can be for a couple of reasons. And to your first point, who it’s for, if you’re just sitting around saying, I want to invent something. Brainstorm is not going to help you. You at least have to start with a problem to solve. Or the part that’s tough for inventors sometimes is they’ve already solved a problem. They have their garage. prototype. They have their first idea. And a lot of times inventors have a tough time of imagining there might be better ways to do what they’ve already come up with just because it’s not your fault. You’re close to it. You’ve been working on it. It’s kind of your baby. And it’s really tough to break out of that mold and say, Really, let me challenge this and see if I can brainstorm or ideate improvements or different ways to do it that might even be better than what I’ve already got.

Steven Julian: So?

Noah McNeely: So that’s what’s tough for inventors. Yeah, yeah. To answer your specific question.

Steven Julian: Got it. So where would you start with? saying, okay, so I guess can we define, you know. Because this can look a lot of different ways and you can go about it a lot of different ways. So rather than saying, oh, there’s only one way to do it, I know you’re not going to say that. What is it and why should someone be looking to do this?

Noah McNeely: So fundamentally what brainstorming or ideation is about is about getting as many possible ideas on paper or, you know, captured in notes. or whatever as you can. They’re going to be good ideas. They’re going to be bad ideas. They’re going to be ideas. They’re like, this is silly. I don’t even know why I’m writing this down. But it’s the process of capturing all of that. And that’s what brainstorming ideation is all about. The reason you should do it is, again, your idea may not. Well, number one, you might simply be solving a problem. You don’t have the idea yet. So this might be a way to create potential solutions or partial solutions or bits and pieces of solutions that can be combined into a real solution. And sometimes I think this is more valuable. You’ve already, as an inventor, you’ve already got your idea and you’re like, this is great. Well, taking a step back and brainstorming will help you make it better or maybe find an even better way. that’s going to be much easier to get to the market, much cheaper for the consumer, works better, whatever it is. But that’s, again, that’s the tough thing is to break out of that, hey, my idea is great to the point of, okay, let me challenge that. idea with brainstorming or ideation.

Steven Julian: There are some people who are listening to this who are only five minutes into the show and they heard that and they go, well, I can’t do that. I’m not good at that. I’m terrible at that. So they may want to turn this off and I’m going to ask a question that may keep them on the episode. And in addition to that, there may be people who aren’t saying that, who aren’t saying, oh, I’m not good at that. But longtime listeners of this show and longtime people who’ve interacted with you through this podcast or even in person. We’ll know that sometimes there are inventors and product developers who don’t realize that they need to step back and brainstorm. They think, oh, I got it. I know what I, you know, they don’t know yet that their baby’s ugly and they need to be kind of told that. So either because they don’t know or they do know and they’re like, I can’t do this. I’m not good at this. Just because you might not be able to do this, this still is something they can look at because it can. involve someone else, right?

Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. So that was a really, there were a lot of words in that question.

Steven Julian: Um, can I, if I can’t do this myself, am I, am I just, well, forget it. You can’t do it.

Noah McNeely: You’re screwed. So one, I would say you probably can do it yourself. You just maybe don’t know how to start. And we’ll talk about that in a few minutes. Two. On the other end of the spectrum, there are people out there that are brainstorm experts and you can easily go pay them thousands, tens of thousands, however many dollars you want to pay them to help you with this. As an inventor entrepreneur, I don’t recommend that unless you’re just, you know, if you’ve got lots of money, you know, go for it. But in general, most inventor entrepreneurs should not be spending their money that way. I have been in my earlier parts of my career, I have led brainstorm, you know, brainstorm exercises for big companies. We were paid thousands of dollars to do that, and it resulted in some good ideas. And I’ve been part of brainstorms that were actually commissioned by really big. companies, and they paid this brainstorm expert to come in. I think they probably paid her and her team $30,000 or $40,000 to put this whole big event on. They ran this really nice place. It’s one of those event center type places. you go there, and you’re just like, oh, that’s nice. That’s nice. How much did that cost? And they had brought in all this fancy food and everything. I had a good time and they paid me to be there. At the end of the day, I don’t know if they got any better ideas than if we’d just done it in my office or if I’d just done it on Zoom with these.

Steven Julian: So just to understand you’re paying for a party.

Noah McNeely: This was pre-Zoom, but even if we’d done it on Zoom, we probably would have come out with, we wouldn’t come out with as many ideas, but a lot of the best ideas would have been the same.

Steven Julian: At least if you’re going to do that and pay someone else, get a good party out of it, right? Get a good couple meals or a day in an event center. Although based on the. last conversation we just had with Zach Ratner, Author of Grow Up Fast, you know, if nothing else, rather than pay someone else, at least potentially put something into AI and ask for some evaluation out of AI. You could do that for pennies on the dollar or even for free.

Noah McNeely: Right. So a couple of ways to do it on your own without anybody at all. If you’re asocial and don’t have any friends and just want to be by yourself and do it.

Steven Julian: How did you know?

Noah McNeely: Well, I’ve been asocial and didn’t have friends at different points in my life. So, you know, I know what it’s like.

Steven Julian: Takes one to no one.

Noah McNeely: Well, engineers, you know how we are. Yeah, so there are some techniques. you can do just sitting in a coffee shop all by yourself. Maybe we can talk about a couple of those later in the episode. But then that whole chat GPT thing, definitely go listen to the Zach Ratner episode. He did talk about a lot of cool things there. But one version of that is you can go to chat GPT and say, let’s say your idea. Let’s say you’re. working on a new kind of hammer. It’s like, I have a hammer that’s going to do this. Give me some ideas and it’ll give you some ideas and they’re probably going to mostly be bad, but that’s okay because some of those, just like in a brainstorm of people, some of those bad ideas may prompt you to come up with a better idea. So I didn’t think about my hammer should be magnetic and that’s a bad idea for this, that, and the other reason, but maybe it’s a good reason or maybe it leads to a much better idea. So there are a lot of ways you can do this on your own without paying anybody anything. And if you really need some people to bounce ideas off, Just get your buddies. Go buy pizza and a round of beers. You can do some great brainstorming there. And frankly, the ideas may get more creative the more beers you have.

Steven Julian: Again, I’m looking into the return on investment. If you’re going to involve other people, at least get a good meal out of it. At least get a good time out of it. At least go to. a good event space. Or, you know, Buffalo Wild Wings, they didn’t pay me to say that. Or your favorite, you know, gather around and get a couple beers. Okay, so you’ve kind of talked about what it is. So let’s get into how to do it. or how have you done it? or how have you seen others do it? How do I do that?

Noah McNeely: So like I said, there’s a lot of books.

Steven Julian: Are there rules I need to follow? Well, I’ll ask it that way.

Noah McNeely: I don’t like the word rules in this context. Oh, okay.

Steven Julian: Well, forget I said that.

Noah McNeely: Because everybody’s different and we all find that we’re most efficient doing things in our own way sometimes. So there are books. Like I said, people write books on brainstorming. They come up with their proprietary names. You buy the book and, you know, you help them make a boat payment or whatever they’re trying to do. So people have different rules for brainstorming. That’s fine. That’s all legit. You may find one of those books and say, hey, this works for me. That’s what I’m going to do. I generally find that there’s bits and. pieces of good techniques in some of these books. And they’re just a few things that I’ve found over the course of 25 years that are sort of. More or less consistent that really work for me. You may find slightly variations of these work for you, but it kind of comes down to a few things. One, my first non-rule slash rule is challenging the assumptions. So you as an inventor, let’s say, again, you’ve got your idea. You’ve already got it. You’ve got your garage prototype. You’ve got, hey, this is the best way to do it. I can’t imagine another way to do it. Well, that’s your number. one assumption you’re going to challenge is, I’m assuming this is the best way, but let me just… Let me just challenge, let me say this is not the best way to do it. I’m going to brainstorm starting at that point. You may have an assumption, you know, with the hammer thing. I’m assuming it’s going to have a metal head. Well, challenge that assumption. I’m assuming it’s going to have a handle that’s a foot long. Challenge that assumption. All these different things, challenge the assumptions. Don’t, even if that leads you into some silly directions, don’t worry about that. Well, you know, there are no bad ideas, but there are bad ideas. We’ll talk about that in a minute. So the second kind of. Rule non-rule is go broad. Don’t focus on one little thing. Like if you spend an entire two hours brainstorming what color to paint the handle of your hammer, that’s not a good use of time. You need to go much broader than that. Get a wide array of ideas on the table. If you feel like you’re going too deep into one thing, just take a step back. Don’t think about that thing. Think about another thing. A very common rule. That you’ll read. And this, frankly.

Steven Julian: I thought there were no. I think you didn’t like the rules.

Noah McNeely: Well, a very common rule that people write in their books.

Steven Julian: That you’re challenging the assumption of them using the word rule. But go ahead.

Noah McNeely: All right. You’re getting circular on me here. A very.

Steven Julian: Just trying to irritate you.

Noah McNeely: And frankly, people that have been in corporate settings and they’ve done brainstorming, this is the one rule slash non-rule that they. probably experience their life. that makes them think brainstorming is stupid and non-productive. And the thing people always say is there are no bad ideas. Well, you and I both know there are bad ideas.

Steven Julian: Yes, absolutely.

Noah McNeely: But a better way to express that is we want the bad ideas too. So even those bad ideas, even though you’re like, you bring the person in the brainstorm, it’s like, Frank’s going to give me the stupidest ideas in the world. Write them down because one of Frank’s stupid ideas. May lead to a much better idea down the road.

Steven Julian: I thought we were going to have to apologize to Frank, our listener, but actually, yeah, Frank might be able to help us.

Noah McNeely: That’s right. We love Frank. Frank is just the name I use.

Steven Julian: We want Frank’s ideas, too, because they can help us.

Noah McNeely: Frank is an imaginary persona who always has bad ideas.

Steven Julian: I believe the official slightly annoying, any resemblance to actual or fictional characters is strictly. Okay, I apologize.

Noah McNeely: That’s okay.

Steven Julian: I’m getting the lie from Noah because he doesn’t want to get off track.

Noah McNeely: I don’t know where you’re going with that.

Steven Julian: We want the bad. ideas too. Okay.

Noah McNeely: And then another rule slash non-rule is, you know, build on the ideas. You know, you write it on paper, you go through it and you kind of reach the end of, you know, your energy is like, hey, none of us, you’re drinking the beer, you’re eating the peach. You’re like, okay, we’re kind of running out of energy here. Go back through the ideas and say, okay, let’s take this one. Let’s brainstorm just that one. What can we do to add to that? And you go through the whole list and you’ll find typically that you, You end up with some deeper thoughts that way and some new directions.

Steven Julian: You also had, I know one of the things we were also talking about is, and I think you said this at the very beginning, get everything down, get as much down on paper or type it out or whatever. Get it somewhere where you can refer back to it, right?

Noah McNeely: Yeah, absolutely. So whatever works for you. I do it on paper. You can do it on a dry erase board. Just be sure to take a picture when you’re done. And I did. make the mistake once early in my career of erasing the dry erase board before I recorded it. You know, just be careful. That doesn’t happen to you. But just get it all. Capture it all. I don’t care how silly or ridiculous the idea seems. Just write it down.

Steven Julian: Why?

Noah McNeely: Because, again, Frank’s silly idea may lead to a much better idea. So, you know, Frank says something about, oh, well, why don’t we use the hammer on cheese? Well, that may lead down the road. Well, maybe some people do have hard cheese and in their kitchen, if they had a cheese hammer, they could break it up and that’s better than a cheese grater. Who knows? That got really ridiculous.

Steven Julian: I think I just had an idea for a cheese hammer. We’ve got Jody cracking up over here. All right. So when we’re talking about brainstorming ideation, the future book that Noah is going to launch in a year or two after he has AI write it for him.

Noah McNeely: I’m going to call it the non-rules of brainstorming. That’s right.

Steven Julian: I like rule non-rule. The rule non-rule. So I like that.

Noah McNeely: We’ll co-author it.

Steven Julian: So brainstorming. Getting. as many ideas as possible and kind of how do I do it, the rules non-rules of challenging assumptions, going broad. We want the bad ideas too, and you can try to build on those ideas and get it all on paper. I’m assuming this is one of the things. that’s a rule non-rule. This can be a one-time, I’m going to sit down and take a few hours and think about things. This could be something. That you have going on over time. I have a notebook of ideas, right?

Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, different people work at different paces. You know, a typical project, I may have several brainstorm slash ideation periods during that project, especially if I run into new problems to solve. I’ll take that step back and brainstorm that problem. And it may go back and change something that we solved earlier, but that’s okay.

Steven Julian: All right. So from rule non-rule, we’re going to go to technique non-technique.

Noah McNeely: Right now, I’m guessing some people are listening to this and they’re thinking, what do I do? Just sit down and write stuff out? That sounds like making a list.

Steven Julian: You want me to journal? I. already heard that from my literature professor. I don’t want to do that.

Noah McNeely: Exactly. This sounds like work without any benefit. There are some techniques. There’s a bunch of techniques out there. Some of them work for different people. Some of them work for others. There’s just a few that I found work really well for me. And I’m going to share those with you. You may find none of these work for you because you and I may be very different people, but there are, you know, like I said, there’s a ton of books out there. Don’t take any one of those books and read it as the absolute Bible of brainstorming, but there might be things in there that you can benefit from. So one of the interesting techniques I have here on my paper is what I call forcing a very different user perspective. So again, back to your hammer. So you’ve got this hammer. Maybe you’re designed this hammer.

Steven Julian: Are we still on the cheese hammer or is this a different hammer?

Noah McNeely: No, this is back to baseline hammer. Starting with a hammer. Let’s say you’re developing a hammer for just, you know, mainline people. doing DIY projects. Force yourself to take it. And you’re taking that about as far as you’re going to take it without doing some brainstorming. So force yourself to take a step back. Okay, how would I design or develop this hammer? What features would this hammer need to have if it were for people on crutches? That’s going to be a very different need set than just someone that’s a standard DIY user. And why would you do this? Well, how many people on crutches are going to use a hammer? That’s not the point. The point is, you may, as you’re solving the problem of what does a person on crutches need a hammer to do or need in a hammer to use that, You may identify an improvement that works for everybody, and that can go back into your main idea. Now, am I saying that you should always do something for a person on crutches? No, that’s just one random example.

Steven Julian: Every time I ideate, okay, I got to think of a person on crutches for somebody at Shark Tank.

Noah McNeely: Why are people bringing us all these ideas for people on crutches? What the heck, man?

Steven Julian: I went to Ned Flanders of The Simpsons and his left-handed store. That’s where I went.

Noah McNeely: There you go. I like personal corrections. Oddly enough, I’m working on a hammer now. It involves left-handed people, and I can’t talk about it other than that. Wow. That was very bizarre.

Steven Julian: I got a scoop.

Noah McNeely: You did get a scoop.

Steven Julian: The next technique.

Noah McNeely: Next technique is what I call forced combinations. So I was in this brainstorm event one time, and we did this technique. And they had all these cards, and they had different objects. Written on the different names of objects written on the cards. And what we were doing were actually, it was a medical device. We’re working on a way it’s, this was 20 years ago. So it’s, you know, I can talk about it now. It’s all, it’s way in, it’s, it’s way in the past, but we’re working on a device for people that have ports that they can’t eat food normally. Like they’ve had a surgery or they have a, you know, they’re in chemotherapy or whatever it is. And they have this port on their stomach called. They’re different ones, but basically a G-tube. or a gastrotube. And you would push liquid food into this tube. We actually, when my daughter was experiencing chemotherapy years ago, and if you don’t know the story, she’s doing great. So, you know, it’s all good now. But this was five years ago. She had one of these ports and, you know, we had this machine. You would hook up a bag of food and it would… Pump it in there at the right pace and everything is very controlled, you know, very FDA specific ways of doing it. But anyway, we were trying to develop a new, a different technique for that. And the cards I and my partner in this event drew were a ladder and a shovel. So it’s like, okay, you’re thinking, well, that’s just. How are we going to connect a ladder and a shovel together? And then how are we going to connect that to this G-tube feeding process? So we were silent for a little while, looking at each other like, you got any ideas? You got any ideas? I don’t have any ideas. But then all of a sudden it’s like, well, wait a minute, let’s think about it. Okay. If we did put it, what’s kind of, what’s the ladder do? It’s like these steps and it goes up one step at a time. What’s a shovel do? And, you know, it moves dirt. And then we got to thinking of, well, wait a minute, there’s something kind of like that. It’s an auger. You know, an auger is something you go, you dig holes out in the yard with it. It’s got this basic screw that goes around and it’s like a shovel slash ladder. It’s a shovel ladder combo. So then we’re like, okay, how could we apply that to this G-tube thing? Actually, we came up with a solution. What if you had this auger or what engineering nerds like myself would call an Archimedes screw that actually pumps the fluid into the G-tube? That one did actually never go anywhere, but it was a decent idea. These days, we have these electronic devices that do it. But imagine you were in a developing country where they can’t afford these electronic pumps. Well, maybe a parent could have one of these G-tube feeders where they do turn a crank and it’s this little Archimedes screw pumping. the food in. So that really silly ladder plus shovel. Led to a good idea. Not one they actually developed, but it was still a good idea. All right. I went up really on time on that particular technique.

Steven Julian: It was a good story.

Noah McNeely: It was a good story. Next technique, focus on only one thing. Ignore everything else. Maximize that one thing. So still back to our hammer. Just focus on the claw that pulls the nails out. Don’t worry about the handle. Don’t worry about the head. Imagine you were just developing a product to pull nails out and you just brainstorm around that. And again, you may find elements of that that go into your full product design down the road.

Steven Julian: When you’re focusing on the one thing, are we now back to? there is no bad idea, we want all the ideas?

Noah McNeely: We’re always doing that. Write everything down. And we may not cover it in this episode, but at least in a future episode, we’ll talk about how to use all those things.

Steven Julian: So we’ve talked about go broad, but then you also have to focus on just one thing. You have to… You know, ignore everything else, maximize one thing. How do I make this thing better than everything else?

Noah McNeely: And these are all techniques you use after you’ve done your baseline brainstorming. Okay, write down all the ideas you have on the top of your head. I should have said, do that first. And then when you kind of run out of energy, then you use these techniques to go deeper and further. Another technique is what I call idea building. This is one you cannot do yourself. You do need at least one other person. And the idea here is you each write down an idea. The basic premise of this is you each write down an idea on a sheet of paper, then you swap papers, and then you build on that idea. And then you swap back and you keep building until you kind of run out of things you can add to that. One that’s kind of a fun one I’ve done in the past, actually have yielded some good results, is brainstorm the worst solution. Okay, what is the worst feature we could put on a hammer? What are the worst things we can make a hammer out? of? What’s the worst ergonomic configuration for a hammer? And you do that. And that actually sometimes leads you to, okay, flip it now, what’s the best? And that can lead to some interesting results. Some tools and techniques you can use beyond that. Especially if you’re by yourself, you can get a game that has cards in it. Like one. that’s good is Apples to Apples because it has all these cards with different objects and things on it. That’s really good for this force combinations technique. Sometimes you can just pick. Pick one card and think about, okay, my problem, how does this card relate to that? Spend a minute. Can I relate them in any way? Maybe that leads to a good idea. If not, you just draw another card.

Steven Julian: Here again, I think AI could probably play a role in this, right? So creating cards or a list of words around the topic you’re thinking about or the one thing you’re focusing on.

Noah McNeely: Right. And I think something I probably need to try a little more is actually So reworking some of these techniques within the bounds of a ChatGPT or an AI. I think about, you know, what does a hammer do? A hammer pushes nails into a surface. Let’s just start there. So ChatGPT, give me different objects or different products or different items that push nails into surfaces. And it will give you a hammer, it will give you, you know, the hammer gun or all sorts of different things. And then you can say, okay. Yeah. Give me, give me things other than nails that are pushed in. You have all this thing. You take some of those words and say, okay, Chad GPT, if I were to combine, you know, the ladder and the shovel, what do I get? And that may give you a good idea. It may give you a silly idea, but at least it’s something that gets you to thinking in ways you weren’t thinking before. And that’s really what brainstorming is, is kind of about.

Steven Julian: So there’s no right or wrong way to do it. It’s just wrong to not do it.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I agree. Is that fair? I agree. The wrong way to do it is to go into it. saying anything other than the idea you already had is bad. That’s a wrong way. to do it. And the right way to do it for you is going to be different than the right way to do it for me or for Steven or for anyone else. The right way to do it is whatever helps you to get the widest array of the most diverse ideas on paper efficiently.

Steven Julian: Well, Noah, we’re going to have a very quick brainstorming ideation session in the midst of this episode. And I’m going to challenge your assumption because you have more that you want to say about this. I do. But we’ve entered that magic period of time where I think.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s too much to finish in this episode.

Steven Julian: To not do it. well. Exactly. And it might not be enough to do an entire second episode about it, but I think you probably could brainstorm and ideate some other things to add to the thing you gave me ahead of show. So we will tease that at least one of the things that we’ve yet to talk about around this topic would be kind of after you do all this brainstorming, ideation, so what? Now what? What do we do with this? How do? I? You know, what’s the end result or what some of the things I could get out of it? So I think that’d be, I’m going to brainstorm and say we should stop the topic right here.

Noah McNeely: Well, at this point, you’ve gone through these, what we’ve talked about. You probably have several pages of ideas. Most of them are horrible, silly ideas. And you’re wondering, okay, what do I do with these? Cheese hammer.

Steven Julian: What am I going to do with a cheese hammer?

Noah McNeely: Well, that’s stuff that we can talk about, I think, when we get to the what I do with all this stuff episode.

Steven Julian: Oh, I like that. What do I do with all this stuff? Coming soon to a podcasting platform near you. So give our listeners kind of an ending piece of advice of what are–somebody’s listening to this and they’ve never really done it or they’ve just found failure in this. They’re not good at it or they just never thought about it. Can you–and again, there are no rules, rule non-rule. Take 20 minutes? Or is it just as simple as, you know, figure out what it is? they can do? Is it get a beer with a friend? Is it sit in a quiet room? What’s the thing that if you said, hey, if I could do this, you would actually do it and start this process?

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: