Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Noah’s angry and Noah’s frustrated and you’ll be able to hear us maybe help him deal with that anger and frustration and we might even dig something up from Noah’s past. next on Product Genius.

Noah McNeely: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place.

Noah McNeely: Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products.

Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started.

Noah McNeely: Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Steven Julian: Hey, that’s my line. Yay! Welcome to another hopefully award-winning edition of Product Genius. As she stated, I am your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Seated next to me is our intrepid producer, Jody Smith. And across the table from me is the host of Product Genius, the man whose lair we sit in, in the offices or but next to the offices of Product Quick Start. It is Noah McNeely. Hello, Noah.

Noah McNeely: Well, hello. I’m not used to having my name sung in quite. that way.

Steven Julian: It was pretty good, wasn’t it? It came off the cuff. It felt right.

Noah McNeely: It worked.

Steven Julian: Do you want me to try it again?

Noah McNeely: No.

Steven Julian: And here’s the host, Noah McNeely. All right, Noah, we’ve got a very interesting topic today. I think the reason I was singing potentially is this is as close as we will ever get to Product Genius Story Hour.

Noah McNeely: Yes. So once upon a time, When we were doing this show with Tiffany, I think about three years ago, we had a show all planned out. We had all these things we were going to talk about. And then she comes in, she’s angry. She’s angry about something. She’s like, I want to talk about this.

Steven Julian: Okay, now before you continue, I just want to shout out Tiffany Krumans. She, of course, started this show. If you haven’t listened, go back and listen to old episodes. She is now launching Opu Probiotics, opu.com. Or is it opuprobiotics.com? Ooh, I should have looked that up. Oh, no, Tiffany, don’t get mad at me. I’m sorry. Just search Tiffany Crumman’s Opu Probiotics and you’ll see all the stuff she’s doing. So we’re in the studio.

Noah McNeely: We don’t want her to get angry again. Exactly.

Steven Julian: Exactly. So we’re in the studio. We’ve got this show all planned out. She comes in and she’s mad.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, she’s angry about something. So we’re talking about this.

Steven Julian: And for once, it’s not me. But go ahead.

Noah McNeely: So she kind of changed the whole show at the last minute, kind of like you do to me sometimes. And that’s kind of where I am today.

Steven Julian: So those longtime listeners of the show will appreciate that Noah is on a quest to talk about product development and to talk about getting your product to market and comparing everything in that space to some kind of cultural or movie reference. And today we’re doing Groundhog Day because, and I, so I sang your name also because of that Sonny and Cher song that Bill Murray wakes up to every single time, every day as he repeats Groundhog Day over and over again, because you are a little frustrated and a little, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s steaming you a little bit, not to the point of, of, well, okay, I’m not going to go there. All right. It’s steaming you to the. point where you’re, you’ve had the same thing happen. Over and over again in not a long amount of time. And it happened to the point where you’re like, that’s it. We’re going to talk about it on the show.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So in the last week, literally one week, I’ve had two different clients come to me complaining about a particular other product development company. And in the last 60 days, I’ve had this happen four times about two specific product development companies, which I’m not going to name them. Of course not.

Steven Julian: We don’t want to do that.

Noah McNeely: You know, they have lawyers and stuff, probably. But there are two specific companies, one here in Georgia, one in Florida, and there’s plenty of companies, so if you think it’s you, it’s not you. But these are what I would say are well-meaning companies. A month ago, we did a show about scammers. Companies that know what they’re doing is wrong, at least I think they do, and they’re just out to separate inventors from their money, and they don’t care whether you succeed or not. They couldn’t care less. These are companies which I think on some level they. believe they’re providing a good service, but they just don’t know how to provide a good service to inventor entrepreneurs.

Steven Julian: They don’t know how to provide the best service that will help the entrepreneurs get to their end goal, right?

Noah McNeely: Yes.

Steven Julian: Because you’re not going to give away the company names, and I think that’s right. I think that’s the right thing to do. Not that you need my permission, but…. What details can you give of any of those stories of the last 60 days that, again, would protect the industry?

Noah McNeely: I’m going to tell three of them. I’m going to just rephrase in my words what happened. And then one, which is the one that pushed me over the edge, I’m going to actually read some excerpts from this lady’s email, and I’ve redacted all the company names and anything that could be identifying. I’m going to do that so you can see why. Maybe you can see why it made me angry. But the first one, they were charged a ton of money for a design with no possible way to manufacture it. It didn’t include any of the clients’ key requirements. Basically, the company, which was. an engineering design company, product development company, they just weren’t listening to the client. They didn’t deliver what they needed.

Steven Julian: Okay, so let me stop you. If it’s okay, I’d like to stop you on each of these so that we can have a conversation.

Noah McNeely: I’m happy to stop.

Steven Julian: Yeah, thank you. So on that first one, you said that they didn’t deliver some of the key requirements. And I’m imagining that any engineering and design company that’s worth their salt should know they need to deliver the key requirements. So is it… Is it that they, hey, we did plans, so we did our job. So break that down a little bit for us.

Noah McNeely: So in my pessimistic, angry mood, here’s what I think happened, is that this inventor went into this company, a company that does work with inventors but does a lot of work with other big, cash-flowing, established companies as their primary gig. I think they went in, they explained, hey, here’s what I need my product to do. Here’s the requirements. And I think the engineer on the other side, the designer on the other side, we’re like, yeah, we know better than you do. So we’re just going to kind of ignore that because we don’t like it. And we’re going to deliver back to you the design that we think you need, even though it’s not what matches your business because we don’t really care. And that’s the angry me talking about what happened.

Steven Julian: And when the client receives this back, was it something that they’re like, hey, this obviously is not what I asked for. Is it pretty obvious? or did they go, look, I got some designs and then you had to tell them, this isn’t going to work. You can’t develop this.

Noah McNeely: So unfortunately, a lot of times inventors, well, most of the time inventors have never worked with engineering and design companies. So they don’t know that that’s not the way it’s supposed to work. So they’re like disappointed, but they’re like, I guess this is what I paid for. All right. And then they find me and I tell them the truth and then they get angry. Like I do.

Steven Julian: Right. So they get angry with you. No. Okay.

Noah McNeely: So, so give us angry at me.

Steven Julian: Right. Right. Exactly. So, so, so I guess you have to, I. mean, if you’re an inventor and it’s your first invention and you’re kind of walking this, there’s, there’s a, there’s an element of faith and trust that they got to trust that the person’s going to do the best job for them. But yet by the same token, they have no expertise to really know that they’re getting that.

Noah McNeely: Right. Yeah.

Steven Julian: Okay. I can see why you’re getting frustrated. I’m getting frustrated too. Go to the next one.

Noah McNeely: So the second one, different company, one of the two, Georgia or Florida companies, their project just kept getting stretched out and stretched out, which happens. Some of my projects stretch out. You have problems you have to solve, and sometimes things take longer than you want. But the real issue is there was zero communication between that company and this client. So they’re just sitting around waiting and waiting and waiting. Even when they ask, hey, what’s going on, it would take two, three weeks for them to get back to them. So Angry Me says what happened in that case was this company sold this project to this person, started the project, and then they got a really big client. come in the door, and they’re like, oh, we don’t have time to work on Fred’s project. We’re going to focus on Technocopy Global Corps’ project. I don’t even have time to email Fred, and I don’t really like Fred’s project anyway because it’s just an invention, and I don’t have time for that. So that’s what I think happened in that case. That’s what angry me thinks happened in that case.

Steven Julian: And for our listeners, it should be a minimum expectation that if you work with a company that is helping you with engineering and design, they should communicate with you.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, and I’ll admit, engineers, myself included, we’re not always the most proactive communicators. But if you send me an email saying, hey, what’s the status? I’m going to respond. I’m not going to wait three weeks and then get back to you.

Steven Julian: Even if the status is, hey, I am swamped right now. I’ll get back to you. Two, three days, a week, give me a week, I’ll tell you what the status is.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, sometimes the status is we’re still waiting on parts. Right. Same as we were doing a week ago. Right. I don’t have. anything new to report. You know, that’s just the reality sometimes.

Steven Julian: But three weeks. That’s communication. Yeah, three weeks. And is it fair that if I’m going to a company, so if I’m, again, I’m an inventor, this is my first product, I’m trying to get it off the ground, when I’m sitting with that engineering and design company, Maybe one of the things we need to talk about at the very beginning is, hey, let’s set the expectation of communication. I’m not going to email you every day or maybe not even every week, but how often are you going to keep me updated of what’s going on? Because even if they had said, hey, we had this massive project come in the door. We got to table this for a couple of weeks. I apologize, but I’ll get back to you. At least they’re communicating.

Noah McNeely: Right. Well, exactly. You may not like to hear that. Right. Ratty thing to do, but it is, you know, it’s capitalist. We’ll come back around to why I think these people actually mean well later and we’ll talk about that. Okay.

Steven Julian: Give me the next one.

Noah McNeely: Okay. So the third one is. actually a client that I met with, started doing some work with many years ago. And I was very honest with them about, as I am, I like your idea. You have this problem. You have this problem. You have this problem. And this problem is going to lead to that problem. If we can’t solve these problems, which are business problems, not engineering problems, then you really don’t, well, some of them were engineering problems. Anyway, you really don’t have a path to a business. That client didn’t like to hear that then. So they, you know, we parted ways and they went to one of these companies and now they’re back six years later. I wish I’d listened to you. This company charged me all this money. I didn’t get anywhere because either they… They just wanted the client’s money or they didn’t know better the way I did to tell them the truth of the matter.

Steven Julian: And what does angry you think about that? Depends on what day. because one day you think they were just trying to get their money.

Noah McNeely: Generous angry me thinks they were just didn’t know any better. And they were probably, since. they were an inventor, they were probably assigned to a junior employee. In that particular company who really didn’t know the pathway all the way to a product launch or a business launch. And so that person was just, oh, you want to put this feature on there? Okay, I can draw that up. Oh, you want to put this feature on there? Okay, I can draw that up. I don’t know how to make it. Well, isn’t that important? Well, I can draw it up.

Steven Julian: I can draw it up. I made a CAD design for you. Exactly. Short-time listeners of this show, we certainly encourage you to go back after this episode and catch up on all the episodes of Product Genius, but short-time listeners of this show might think, man, Noah’s just angry. He’s just bitter. He’s getting mad at these people. But part of this frustration comes out of the fact that you have identified in these scenarios that you’ve been guilty of this on some levels in the past.

Noah McNeely: Yes. And we’ll talk about that. But before we get to that.

Steven Julian: Oh, man, I pivoted wrong.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, you pivoted a little too early there.

Steven Julian: This. is what I get for not following the script. I’m sorry, ladies and gentlemen.

Noah McNeely: No, that’s okay.

Steven Julian: Take two.

Noah McNeely: I kind of want to read some excerpts from the email.

Steven Julian: See, I thought you were going to do that after you. Okay, but yeah, this makes sense.

Noah McNeely: You have an email. I have an email. So this is the email that pushed me over the edge. This is the one where I was like, okay, now this is a pattern. Now, and because of what I read in this email, you know, other things, those were just conversations. So I didn’t get as many details. This one, I got some details and it really made me angry. I’m going to read it. I’ve redacted the company name and any identifying features. So I’ll read those out as redacted. So, and I quote, at this point, I just want to wrap things up with redacted company name and forget I ever worked with them. I’m not sure how the sketches they provided are high level concept sketches. But apparently in the world of engineering, that’s what they are. I’m reading in a very angry tone, obviously. I’m curious to know what. standard concept sketches look like when juxtaposed with these high level concept sketches I received. I thought they were going to help me develop my idea in terms of redacted and the mechanisms we could use for the redacted. I’m going to skip down a little bit further. I just don’t see how these sketches are worth 30 hours of work. For goodness sake, it’s not like. this is an entirely new idea. Redacted already exists. Anyway, as you can tell, I get very upset every time I think about redacted company name, but I’ve decided to just go ahead with filing the provisional patent without any information on the mechanisms so I can get rid of them and move on. So that made me angry. You know what made me the most angry? I’ve seen what this company did for this person. It’s eight hours of work. It is not the 30 hours they charged her for. And knowing this company, I’m pretty sure they charged her $175 to $200 an hour to do it. So that’s a massive amount of money, and it’s overcharged for what they did.

Steven Julian: Yeah, yeah.

Noah McNeely: So that made me angry, and that’s why. we’re here today. Sorry we’re not talking about the other topics that we had planned.

Steven Julian: This has been Angry Story Hour. With Noah McNeely of Product Quick Start.

Noah McNeely: I may have to take an extra pill later.

Steven Julian: Yeah. Okay. Take a swig of your Dr. K, Kroger Big K Zero Sugar. Yes. Cola. Just relax. So let’s kind of change the anger a little bit by giving as much benefit of the doubt to these redacted companies as possible. While you have stated, and it is a recent past episode, and I encourage everybody to go listen to it, about the scamming in your arena, in your area of expertise. And that’s not expertise at all. That’s just scamming people out of their money. There is an element of they may be trying to kind of do the right thing, but just doing it very poorly. So what are the mistakes here that are not literally scamming people out of their money?

Noah McNeely: I think it’s important to say that the reason I think that they’re trying to do the right thing or they mean well is I actually used to run a company a lot like this. I mean, these. are actually legitimate design and engineering companies just like the company I used to run. However, their primary focus is not inventor entrepreneurs. It is companies that are cash flowing. Sometimes it’s really big companies like Coca-Cola and Black & Decker and on and on. Sometimes it’s smaller companies, but they’re cash flowing. They have money to invest in doing kind of the corporate traditional way of doing a product development. That’s not typically what an inventor needs or can afford. And so when these inventors come in the door, they’re really trying to match them into that model. And this is kind of what we did at the old company. We thought we were doing a good service because we were providing something that they really couldn’t get anywhere else. Work we were doing, but we were carving out a small piece of the whole thing that they could afford to help move them forward. However, and this is one of the reasons I actually built the business model product QuickStart the way I did, is that doesn’t help them get across the finish line if they don’t have the resources to go the whole distance in that methodology. So I think they meant well. I think they mean well. And if you come in and you’re an inventor, you’ve got a lot of funding behind you, I think that process is going to work just fine for you in most cases. But if you are shoestringing this, as many inventor entrepreneurs do, it’s just not the right approach. It’s like you go to the car dealership and you need a used Honda and they sell you a Ferrari. Yeah, it’ll… It’ll get you where you’re going, but it’s going to be repossessed because you can’t afford it.

Steven Julian: Well, I was going to say square peg round hole, right? I mean, this is the age-old trying to put a square peg in a round hole. So you talk about the corporate cash flow scenario. What are some of the biggest differences? What are some of the things that are dramatically different about a Fortune 500 company coming to one of these? Engineering design company saying we want to develop a product versus entrepreneur. Other than the obvious thing of we got a lot of money we can throw at this. There’s differences to the process.

Noah McNeely: Sure. And it’s a. sliding scale. It’s not, you know, when you get to very, very large corporations, and I’ve done projects like this in the past, a lot of, you know, frankly, a lot of the people you’re working with, they’re more concerned about protecting their jobs than they are about the success of the project. That’s counterintuitive because you’d think the two would be related, but they want to be able to tell their boss at the end of the day, if the project does fail, oh, I followed all these steps, and I spent $250,000 on a really extensive design research phase and on a market research phase, and we did 300 focus groups all across the country and Canada. So we did everything right, but it failed anyway. So it’s really not my fault. Don’t blame me. Don’t fire me. I would fire that person. So a lot of times I think processes are followed just because it’s sort of a CYA approach to product development, which is great if you can afford it. I’ve worked with Fortune 500 companies. They can afford it, and that’s just how they do it. Some smaller corporations, they don’t do all that, and. they know that they’re not going to do all that, but they’ve been around the block enough to know that. Okay, I’m not spending $100,000 on market research. I might spend $5,000 on it or whatever because I know my budget and I know how this works. and here’s what we’re going to do. I’m going to put more money in engineering or design or whatever. So it’s a sliding scale. Inventors don’t know any of that typically. And inventors can’t afford most of that. They have to take really their best shot with the resources they have in whatever that looks like.

Steven Julian: So with that as kind of a main difference, it becomes fairly apparent that Some of these scenarios that are making you angry and frustrated, I can see how that could fit into they mean well. They almost are doing the project like it was coming from a larger company of, hey, we just do a design. They’re going to come back and go, oh, you need to change this. Oh, okay, well, it doesn’t work.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, to an extent. I mean, the person whose email I read, I kind of look at that. They developed. Kind. of top-level, non-detailed concept illustrations, which is really, frankly, not much more than this person went to them with. They just kind of took what this person described and drew it. That’s kind of what happened there. That’s like, I mean, you wouldn’t build a house like this. You wouldn’t go out and hire a contractor and say, you know, I know it’s going to cost $500,000 to build this house. I’ve only got $20,000. And the contractor says, okay. I can work with that. Then they go on the way of foundation. We’re done. I spent your $20,000. Call me when you have more money. That’s kind of how this looks to me. I think, but at the end of the day, I think they still think they’re doing a good service because they are moving the inventor forward. It’s just not really what the inventor needs.

Steven Julian: Is now a good time for me to raise the topic of what you did in your past? How’s that for a tease? Is that good? Do you like that?

Noah McNeely: That kind of depends on what we’re talking about, doesn’t it?

Steven Julian: So I tried to bring this up before, and you said, I’m going to read the emails first. So now I’m bringing it back. And one of the reasons that I think maybe your frustration level is, and you stated it, you were around one of these companies. You even led, helped lead one of these companies.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, I was CEO for five years.

Steven Julian: What have you been guilty of? How have you been guilty of this in the past?

Noah McNeely: Well, you’re going to phrase it that way, huh?

Steven Julian: I can phrase it a different way. Have you ever made this mistake even remotely in a scintilla of this mistake?

Noah McNeely: Let me describe how it works and how we end up in places like this. So in the company I used to run, I had dozens of employees. So companies like this, design engineering companies, product development companies, they might be very small, in which case you’re… Probably going to be, as an inventor, going to be a little better off typically. They may have a dozen employees. They may have three dozen employees. When you’re doing projects for Coca-Cola and Black & Decker and Procter & Gamble, and they’re writing $80,000 checks to get projects started, and you’re invoicing a. couple hundred thousand dollars a month, that works. Because if you’ve got a dozen employees, designers and engineers aren’t cheap. More than a million dollars a year in payroll right there. So if you’re not invoicing $150,000, $250,000 a month, you’re not going to be around. So all this is going great. You’re billing these big companies. But what happens when those big companies pull back? Which it can be cyclical. They will do that. Then you have to look at your team. And I’ve been there. You have 30 people and say, okay, who are the people I’m going to have to get rid of? And what’s the core team I need to retain in order to rebuild this as soon as the market turns back around? So you get rid of the people you have to, which you don’t ever really want to get rid of anybody. But then you’re back down to this core team, which is still maybe 12 people, maybe 10 people. That’s still a big machine to feed every month. But there’s not a lot of big company work out there. So you start taking inventor work. You take little company work. You take. company. And you’re still trying to match it to. Kind of the way you’re used to doing things. So they come in and you realize, okay, they’ve only got about $10,000. So what can I do for $10,000 the way I do it for big companies? So you carve this out and you do it and you charge them for it and you did what you said you’re going to do. And in your mind, it’s helping them move along, but it’s really not. It’s just not the efficient way to go about it. So that’s one of the ways it happens. As the CEO or the leader of a company like this, by the time you’re that size, you have multiple layers of management. So you’re probably not touching that inventor project. You probably don’t really know what’s going on. And there were a lot of projects I could not be involved in the details of. And that’s, you know, these projects end up getting assigned to the lower level employees just because they’re a lower priority, especially when things do start to pick back up. Let’s say you’ve got four or five inventor projects in-house. And then Coca-Cola. calls. Well, who gets the priority?

Steven Julian: You know, as we’re getting deep into this topic and helping you with your frustration in this last week and 60 days that you’ve had, it’s reminding me yet again why Tiffany started this show years ago, why you… Started as a partner in the show and why you have continued to carry the show forward. because I think one of the most important things that if it hasn’t come out already, I’m going to state the obvious. If you are an entrepreneur and an inventor entrepreneur and you are looking to bring your product to market. The buck stops with you to an extent. Now, we do this show because you can’t be a genius at everything, and we want to bring the geniuses on to talk, and we want to talk about your genius of how you help people get their products to market. But the more you know about… The engineering process, even if you can’t do it yourself, the more you know about market development, the more you know about marketing, the more you know about research and development, the more you as the person who is trying to bring. your product to market, you have to be responsible for knowing what you’re asking them to do, what you expect them to do, clearly stating those results. I mean, it’s a caveat emptor, buyer beware, but it really is buyer know what you’re buying. And know what you need to ask and know what you should be expecting.

Noah McNeely: And be skeptical of companies. Almost everything. Be skeptical of me. It’s a small company here, but there are probably companies that I never hear about, I don’t get complaints about, that do this well, that are larger companies, and I just don’t hear about them because clients were happy. I’m sure they exist, and there’s probably a model that works there. I think it’s probably a difficult thing to thread that needle between doing that kind of work and corporate work at the same time. But when you get with a company that’s got more than four, five, six, eight people, you’re going to have a great meeting, and probably the person in that meeting is a salesperson. Right. That is their only job.

Steven Julian: And that’s not evil, right?

Noah McNeely: It’s not evil.

Steven Julian: It’s just how the machine works, I guess, is. really what you’re saying.

Noah McNeely: It’s definitely how the machine needs to work in a corporate environment. A Fortune 500 company, you need someone that’s really good at sales, that really knows how to go in and do that because you’re competing aggressively with other product development firms to get that business. An inventor really doesn’t need a salesperson to put the shiny polish on every little thing and promise the moon and then let the engineers try to figure it out later because there’s not enough. In an $80,000 program, yeah, maybe there’s enough budget to figure that out. In a $10,000 program or a $5,000 program, there is not enough budget to figure that out. And you as the client, you get screwed because the salesperson promised you everything you needed and the engineer couldn’t deliver it. So the engineer or the designer gets caught in the middle between sales and the client’s needs.

Steven Julian: I’m going to take it back. I think you said something and then you kind of pivoted to another part of the topic. I want to go back to it. You mentioned being skeptical. And it’s funny. So now I’ll say longtime listeners of this. show know that there’s a long-running joke about people being skeptical of even telling you anything about the thing they want to talk to you about. Oh, you got to sign an NDA or we need more vegan options. All those little inside jokes that we’ve had.

Noah McNeely: That’s a whole different problem. Exactly.

Steven Julian: But my point is that’s what they think they need to be the most skeptical about. They really need to be skeptical. And really pay attention to what they’re paying for and what they’re going to get and how that works.

Noah McNeely: And be careful that you might simply be getting the sales pitch rather than someone listening to your needs and responding the way an engineer or a designer and someone that actually has to do the work would respond. If you’re just getting the sales pitch, you’re not going to hear any of the negatives. No sales guy is going to tell you, yeah, this is a great idea, but here’s the problem with it. You’re not going to hear that from a sales guy because they want you to sign that check. Right.

Steven Julian: And, yeah, I’m with you on that. And I think that our. listeners, we said in the last show about scamming that… Scammers, all they’re trying to do is separate you from your money as quickly as possible, and it won’t take that long for it to show itself as a scam. I think these potentially well-meaning companies or these well-oiled machines that are giant machines that, if you’re not careful, will chew you up and spit you out, they’re not doing it to be evil. It’s how their machine runs. So understand what you’re getting involved in. And I love your advice there. Beware of being sold. That’s not evil. That’s not wrong. Know what you’re in the middle of.

Noah McNeely: It’s a shadow of evil, perhaps, in some cases, especially telemarketers.

Steven Julian: Well, it’s just you’re signing up for more money. It’s really signing up for more money, and they may not do exactly what you want them to do because maybe they can’t.

Noah McNeely: This discussion, I think, is bringing out some latent trauma for me.

Steven Julian: We’re here for you, Noah.

Noah McNeely: Well, see, as we talked about the salesperson and the engineer getting caught in the mail, I’ve been that engineer, too. I’ve been… A junior employee or a more junior employee. in this situation where the salesperson went out and sold something that we really can’t accomplish, that nobody can accomplish with the budget that they sold it for. And then we have to try to scramble to figure that out. So sometimes, that’s why I say they mean well. Sometimes it’s the engineers that you’re working with. It may not be their fault that they have to deliver you really a bad deliverable. It may simply be where they’re stuck.

Steven Julian: When that happened. If I can ask you a question about that trauma.

Noah McNeely: I’m not telling you where I buried the body.

Steven Julian: No, no. When that happened, were you doing that project on an Apple IIe or a Macintosh or a 386 or 486 or Pentium?

Noah McNeely: How old do you think I am?

Steven Julian: Well, come on.

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: