Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: Scams, scams, and more scams. We’ve all got stories of scams. Maybe it’s you’re on Sesame Street and somebody whispers to you, you want to buy an S? Maybe you go over to a friend’s house just for dinner not to realize you’ve been trapped into hearing about a great business opportunity or… If I get one more email from some Nigerian prince, I think I’m going to pull what little is left of my hair out. We’ve all got stories of scams, and today Noah’s going to share some scam stories in the product development space, and we’re going to ask you about your stories too. Next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Hey, that’s my line. Yes, welcome to another hopefully. award-winning edition of Product Genius. I am your slightly annoying co-host Steven Julian across the table in the product development lab, also known as the layer of Product Quick Start with the head honcho of Product Quick Start and the host of this show, Product Genius, Noah McNeely. Noah, welcome to your own show.

Noah McNeely: Well, it’s as usual, a pleasure to be here.

Steven Julian: It is. It is our pleasure. And by our, I mean myself and Jody Smith, our producer.

Noah McNeely: I have turned off all the 3D printers and all the equipment here in the lab so that they won’t interfere. We won’t have any AI robots going wild and crazy on us. And hopefully that’ll work the rest of the show.

Steven Julian: I just want to state that I did not call it your warehouse. I did on a previous episode. And I thought you were going to come across the table at me for just a brief second.

Noah McNeely: Warehouse, bunker, lab, compound, it all works.

Steven Julian: You said it’s a lab, and it is. It is your lab. You are the mad scientist. And this is the lab in the lair. That’s what I like. The lab in the lair.

Noah McNeely: Secret hideout.

Steven Julian: That’s right. Absolutely. Speaking of hiding out, some people may want to hide out after they realize that they’ve been scanned as an inventor. And this is a topic we have mentioned many times over the history of this show, dating back to when Tiffany was co-hosting and brought you on as the product genius of product development. And we’ve kind of talked about the scammy nature of, are you an inventor? And as you’ve said, Late night TV ads, right?

Noah McNeely: Not exclusively. They show up on the internet. They’re everywhere.

Steven Julian: Yeah. On the internet, late night, they also show up probably during your favorite game show occasionally.

Noah McNeely: Wherever there’s a cheap advertising space. Exactly.

Steven Julian: So let me just kind of get out of your way. You paint the picture of what specifically we are going to talk about and what these ads are, what they say. And why this is a very, very important topic for us to talk about.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so the gist of it, you know, we’ll go through the actual scenario. They come in of how these scams work, but they come in different flavors. But one thing they have in common is basically. they’re preying on people that they want to believe that their idea is amazing and they’re going to be this huge success. You know, it’s easy to fantasize about all those things before. you’ve done a whole lot of work. And these companies recognize there are people that just want to hear great things, and then they’ll start paying you money to try to move their product forward. And to be clear, all these companies, they do exactly what they say they’re going to. They don’t break any walls. They give you a contract.

Steven Julian: Which I kind of pushed back on you pre-show, because I think this is important to bring up. You are not calling them a scam because they take your money and don’t do anything or don’t do exactly what they say they’re going to do. They do. But when it comes to developing a product, when it comes to working on your invention and turning it into a product, the things they’re doing. You don’t need or you don’t need at that point or you don’t need to spend as much as you’re spending or some variation on that. Is that correct?

Noah McNeely: Yeah, well, I don’t. know Merriam-Webster’s definition of scam. This is just the vernacular I use for this whole kind of scuzzy, which is probably not a word, activity that people do in this space. But yeah, they’re going to do exactly what they commit to do. But the real scam part is… How they spin all these, what I would call, not quite promises. Because they’re not putting anything on those promises in paper. They’re just really making what they do seem exactly like what you need. Because they realize most inventors have never done it before. They maybe have never talked to a real engineer. Or they just don’t understand the process. So you see this advertisement. And this advertisement is like, oh, we work with thousands of inventors. Oh, these guys must really know what they’re doing. So it’s easy to get sucked into that, and that’s why I call it a scam.

Steven Julian: Okay, so before we really dig into this, I believe, as the slightly annoying co-host, I should probably say a couple things to protect the show.

Noah McNeely: Yes, we’re not talking about any specific company.

Steven Julian: So for legal reasons, we’re not going to mention any company by name. They. come and they go.

Noah McNeely: Other than Product Quickstart, which is not a scam. Exactly.

Steven Julian: Exactly. ProductQuickstart.com. Fill out the contact form today. So the other companies that we’re talking about, they come and they go, they rebrand, they evolve with the times, and they do offer some services, and they do those services, but they make you feel like if you just use our services, Everything’s going to be roses and you’re going to be making millions

Noah McNeely: of dollars.

Steven Julian: And that is where they kind of get you. So I realized I was protecting the show to that last statement, which really sounds accusatory. But anyway, that’s just me. That’s my opinion. Not necessarily a fact. OK, so let me start it by this. Walk us through the process. Walk us through what’s it like, you know, so that somebody goes, wait a minute, I think I know what Noah’s talking about because I may have done this or I started this. Talk about what the process is.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so again, there are a lot of variations. There are a lot of flavors of this. And these companies come and go and they rebrand themselves over time. They pop back. up under new names. And their process evolves as technology and society evolves too. But the general process is kind of the same, at least as I know it. First thing you’re going to do, you’re going to respond to that ad. You’re going to fill out their form. You’re going to call their number, you know, whatever it is. And they’re going to put you on a call or in a meeting with somebody, a Zoom meeting. They’re going to get you on the phone with somebody that is super slick. And you’re going to be like, hey, this guy’s my best friend because he’s just that slick. And it doesn’t really matter what your idea is. I mean, your idea could be the stupidest thing in the world. And I’m sure your idea, listener, is not stupid. But if it were. It’s still going to be the best thing this guy’s ever heard. This guy’s going to say things like, oh, that’s amazing. I can’t believe this isn’t on the market already. I’d be surprised if this doesn’t sell millions or whatever platitudes they’re going to put together. So because you’re an inventor and you haven’t done this before, and this is a company that works with thousands of inventors, you’re going to walk away from that meeting and think, wow, I really got something. You’re going to be pumped up. So that’s step one. And then yada, yada, yada. They’re going to keep telling you how great you are. I’m sorry, you can go ahead. No, no.

Steven Julian: So obviously with that, that causes you to, they want to build your excitement or prey upon your excitement and keep your excitement high. And again, everything’s a little bit different, but when does, what’s the first time where they kind of part you from your money? What does that normally look like? in these scenarios? that also should cause your antenna to go up? Right.

Noah McNeely: So the next thing that’s going to happen, maybe it’s in the same call. Maybe it’s another call they set up. Maybe they send you a proposal, an email. It could be any number of ways. Whatever it is, it’s going to be very professional. If they send you a document, it’s going to look really, really nice, very well-drafted. They’re going to, not in the document, but they’re going to verbally tell you, oh, your idea is awesome. And, you know, we really just need $6,000 or $10,000 or whatever to shape it up and make it where it’s presentable. I mean, you’ve got a great idea, but, you know, it needs to be polished up. So we can do that for you. It’s just going to cost several thousand dollars to do it. And that’s a bargain. We’re doing you. I mean, you go to an engineering college, they’re going to charge you $30,000 to do this. We’re going to do it for $6,000. And, you know, because we can do it because we do so much volume. We can help you out here. Just send it to us. Send us the money and we’ll, you know, we’ll take care of this presentation for you.

Steven Julian: And just for a little bit of comparison, for also a little bit of, hey, let me let you guys in on the way this can be done ethically and correctly and the best way. When someone reaches out to Product Quickstart, they are offered the ability to fill out a one-page form to tell you about their idea. And then you, your offer is to say, here’s what my time costs and let’s have a one-hour meeting. And it’s just the cost of your, I mean, it’s really kind of a lost leader of the cost of your time. So that, I mean, you kind of say, let’s have an initial just conversation. And in that conversation, your number one job is to go, This is not, I don’t think this is viable. or here are the three things I think you absolutely have to change if you even want to remotely go down this road and paint a picture of what the road is going to look like. And you’re almost trying to talk people out of going down this road, right?

Noah McNeely: Well, yeah. I mean, I’ve done this long enough to know that one of my key benefits I can bring to people is to try to poke holes in their idea or their business plan or whatever it is. At the end of that conversation, if we can patch all those holes up, then yeah, maybe we can work together and move forward. Sometimes people really don’t like to hear that because they’re the people that really, really, really want to believe. and they don’t want to know that the laws of physics prevent what they want to do from happening or whatever it is. Other people, they love that and they’re able to solve those little problems right away. Oh, but we can change this, we can change that. Other people, and I’ve had people that I’ve told, you know, here’s your problems. And they go away. And then two years later, they’ll show up. Hey, I thought about it. I fixed these problems. Can we work together? So the key difference there is I’m going to be honest. And the other company, again, doesn’t matter how good your idea is or how impractical it is. It’s going to be fantastic as far as they’re concerned.

Steven Julian: So they’re doing what they say they’re going to do, which is no matter what you give them money, they will give you a presentation or a prototype or whatever it is. They have put no investment of their time or their quote-unquote expertise into helping you get to the real end goal, which is a minimum viable product that can produce a business of selling a product.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so what they’re going to deliver typically, and it’s going to be… Work that I look at and it looks like it was done by an intern. It’s probably work. they paid somebody $800 to do and you paid them $6,000, $10,000, whatever it is to have it done. You’re going to get what the contract said. You’re going to get these renderings. They may not be really nice, but they’re renderings and you’re going to get illustrations. You might have an animation of your product because they built your product in some very basic 3D CAD. You’ll probably get what is often called a sales sheet, like it describes your product. For someone who’s never seen any of this, you’re going to be like, yeah, this is great because this is probably the first time you’ve seen your idea in a 3D form or in a CAD form or whatever, but nothing’s really thought out. There’s no matter behind what they’ve done. Is the mechanism even work? Is the concept even work? No, they’ve just shown you sort of an outer picture. They’ve taken what you’ve shown them, which might have been a sketch, and they’ve just made it a prettier sketch. They put kind of. lipstick on a pig is what we in the South would say. And again, it’s work that if I were to do that work, I would charge like $1,500 to do it. But I would never do that work because it’s crap. It’s useless.

Steven Julian: Well, and you would never do that work because the first work that must be done is to help them see what needs to be seen before you start. Creating a presentation because if you don’t do that first, then it’s crap because, oh, great, you got an animation of something that’s never going to work. Before we continue down this road, I want to do something that I don’t think we’ve ever done this specifically on this show.

Noah McNeely: I’m terrified.

Steven Julian: You should be. You’ve worked with me enough now, right, that you’re terrified. But you’ve also worked with me enough. When I get done, I think you’re going to go, hey, that’s a pretty good idea. Or you’re going to say, Jody, cut that out, and no one will ever hear this. This is a topic I think more than a couple of our listeners could give some stories.

Noah McNeely: Oh, my gosh.

Steven Julian: Yeah? So I’m. going to challenge everyone listening to this episode. Sitting there cursing because you’ve had an experience or you know of someone or you almost went down this road. We would love to hear these stories.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, absolutely.

Steven Julian: Noah’s got a hundred of them from his clients, but let’s add to the, you know what? We can, we can publish it in a book. And we could find someone who will give us a 3D rendering of what that book would look like. And for $5,000, I’ll pay for it. I’m sorry. I’m just thinking everybody’s got a story. So stay tuned to the end of the episode. If you’ve listened to the episode, you can know. Go to Product Quick Start. Tell us your story in the Contact Us form. And maybe we’ll even, you know. Kind of do letters from the audience or PDFs from the audience because nobody writes letters anymore.

Noah McNeely: Right. And if you’ve gotten, let’s say you went down this path and you got discouraged because you got ripped off and you’re just, there might be something I can do to help you. Even if you’re out of resources, I might be able to point you. to some things you can do for lower costs than you think that actually move you forward. But yeah, this is one of the saddest parts of my job is running into people and meeting people that have been scammed this way.

Steven Julian: And I think you’ve said this already. I’m going to ask you to really clarify it. The weapon that they use to hurt people is keeping them excited and pumping them up unnecessarily or improperly, I guess would be the way to say. It’s a bad sales tactic.

Noah McNeely: Well, it works out for them. I mean, they get a lot of money out of it. That’s how they can afford all those advertisements.

Steven Julian: And so you kind of mentioned that a lot of times. it’s people who this is their first time. I guess most people don’t use them.

Noah McNeely: I’ve never met a second-time user of any of these companies. I’ve also never met anyone that invented a product one way and then went. And then started the second time with one of these companies.

Steven Julian: Yeah. So we don’t say it. I don’t say it a ton on the show. I’ve got compliance. I’m an independent financial advisor. I help people with investments. There are a couple of things I’m thinking about in my world. Nobody has ever bought two. I won’t even say them because I’d have to run this by compliance. There’s a couple of products that people only buy once and it’s just because it wasn’t sold right or it was oversold or whatever.

Noah McNeely: How many people do you know? There are some and usually alcohol is involved when they do this, but go to the carnival and they go to those games on the midway and the guy behind the, you know, running the game is like, hey, you look like a winner, sir. Come up, throw, you know, $10, you get five balls, you throw them in the basket and then. Yeah, you do that, and you don’t win. Almost no one wins ever. Now, if you’re drunk enough, you might try again and again and again, but most people realize after the first time that, oh, it’s a scam. I’m going to move on.

Steven Julian: Yeah, or, hey, match wits with me because clearly you can be smarter than me in something, and it’s the guess the weight or guess the age or. things like that.

Noah McNeely: So the process, back to the scam. We’re midway through the scam, by the way. This is only step one. Oh, really? You are still on the hook at this point. At this point, they’ve given you this sales sheet. They’ve given you these renderings, these animations. They might even build a website for you. They do all sorts of stuff.

Steven Julian: And I’ve given them money already. All right.

Noah McNeely: That’s cheap and free.

Steven Julian: I’m not even. Oh, wait. Whoa, whoa. It’s cheap and free to them.

Noah McNeely: It’s cheap and free to them. Ah. But you’re in. You think they’re doing everything right for you. And then the next pitch comes along. It’s like, okay, you saw how great this was. I mean, you see now that we’ve reduced your idea to renderings, animations, we’ve got your website up. You can see how awesome it is. We can hand all that stuff to you and you can go out and you can try to pitch companies on it. But I should let you know, we also have a database of hundreds and hundreds of companies. We could do that pitching for you. Now, we charge like $5,000 to. do that or whatever. So it’s only $50 a company. I mean, you can’t go pitch a company for $50. It’s going to cost you that much just to get in touch with the right person. So if you send us another $5,000 or $10,000 or whatever it is, we’ll do that next step for you too. So this is kind of part two of the scam. And at least the people I’ve met that have been scammed go this far. There may be parts three and four that I don’t know about. But this is sort of the last part of the scam. So you pay them that money. And then what basically happens is they do have–they’re honest. They have a database of all these companies and et cetera. that’s hundreds of companies long. And they’re basically spamming all those companies with your substandard presentation. And I’d be surprised if any one of those companies ever looks at them. Or, you know, maybe they’ve got an intern that’s like, hey, it’s your job to look through these. And if you happen to see something mildly interesting, come get me. That kind of stuff.

Steven Julian: And I would. imagine one of the things these companies that we won’t name stand on is they’ve probably got a very small handful. They’ve got a couple of things they can point to and say, oh, look, we were part of XYZ. We were part of the Fred drink reinvigorator.

Noah McNeely: For those of you who listened to the Flash of Genius, you know who Fred is and what Fred’s all about.

Steven Julian: Last or upcoming, Jody now has to make sure.

Noah McNeely: We’re currently in a timeless void outside of regular space time, so we don’t know if this is the present or future.

Steven Julian: Because we’re in the lab layer. We’re in the lab layer.

Noah McNeely: We are. Things work differently here. I’m sorry, I lost the whole train of thought.

Steven Julian: Yes, I got you off topic finally for once. It’s always me that does it. So, oh crap, now I’m off topic too. No, so we were basically saying that they’ve got some examples. Oh, right, right, right.

Noah McNeely: So they’ve got examples. So they do because they’ve been doing this for a very long time, maybe in different forms and whatnot. And once in a while, lightning strikes. That happens. Suggest in a lot. of those cases it’s probably despite what they did versus because of what they did. But, you know, I don’t know all the details. So this is just my assessment from the outside. But read the fine print. In fact, there were, I think, some class action lawsuits maybe a decade or two ago against companies like this. And because of that, whatever government agency, you would know this, you’re in. Finance, FTC, or whatever, require them to start listing what their success rate is. If you read that fine print, it’s like less than 1%. And in some cases, it might be even lower than that. So yes, they have an odd success case here and there. They’re really going to talk about that one a lot. They’re not going to tell you about the 99% that failed.

Steven Julian: And much like the 3D rendering and the presentation that they created when they go out and go to these companies, I would imagine. $999,999 times out of a million, they come to the company, they come to the person and say, well, here’s what we did, right? Do they say, oh, we talked to this many?

Noah McNeely: Yeah, so you’re going. to get, typically you’re going to get a report of what they did, and then the guy, maybe it’s a different person at this point, but someone’s going to reach out to you and talk to you and say, you know, look, I am really surprised we’re not getting any traction with your presentation, with your project. I’m shocked, really. But, you know, we did everything we knew how to do or we did everything we could and we’re just not getting there. And at that point, I wonder if there’s a phase three and four of the scam that I don’t know about just because, you know, the people that I meet have been through phase two and that’s as far as they go.

Steven Julian: Well, I was thinking, well, we do have this very short list of 10 people or 10 companies and we’ll actually go and we’ve got an annual meeting coming up and we’re going to include yours with… With a face-to-face presentation. and all it takes is another, you know, this is the televangelism, the televangelists of inventors. I mean, they are, just send me a little more, just do this one thing.

Noah McNeely: I think it’s. almost more like a Nigerian prince of inventors.

Steven Julian: There you go.

Noah McNeely: The scam of, send me money and I can send you more.

Steven Julian: If you’re contacting us with your story through productquickstart.com in the contact us form and telling your story. Give us your analogy. We’ve got the Nigerian Prince televangelist. I know one of our listeners can top those questions.

Noah McNeely: Oh my gosh, is there a Nigerian Prince televangelist combined together? That would be amazing. The Nigerian Prince pastor.

Steven Julian: Oh man, goodness gracious.

Noah McNeely: So you might wonder, how do I even know this?

Steven Julian: Oh, now he’s asking his own questions of himself. He really is getting rid of me after this show.

Noah McNeely: I need you to challenge the questions I’m asking myself like you just did. That was fantastic. That was absolutely perfect.

Steven Julian: Hey Noah, what should I do? No, I’m not there yet.

Noah McNeely: How do I know this stuff? And it’s like, again, I meet at least a half dozen, probably closer to a dozen people every year. that’s been scanned this way. And some of them have no resources left. And again, I can just give them the best advice I can. So you could try this, try this, try this. Some of them. They pulled out of this scam early enough that they can still start over and move forward. And I see these presentations like, hey, I paid such and such, $8,000, and here’s the report. It’s good, right? No. No, it’s not good. It’s not good at all.

Steven Julian: Physics will not allow me to make this.

Noah McNeely: Exactly. So, no, I’m sorry. I interrupted the question you were going to ask.

Steven Julian: No, that’s okay. Which I interrupted. Which was redundant. Yes, that I interrupted you to make sure. Please proceed. If anyone is looking at any, you know, as someone is starting their first invention, as someone is going through their product and they start to talk to outside people and they start to, because they may approach a company, you know, help arm us with some tips. Give us some ideas that we need to do as we start talking. And this might apply to more than just the, we’re going to make this great presentation, but. What are some steps they could take? at the very beginning? that would kind of show, maybe I don’t need to work with this company? I think. the first and most obvious one, like you said, is looking at success. I mean, that’s a fair question. Sure. So lead us through some tips. Yeah.

Noah McNeely: So the stuff you can do pretty easy is read that fine print. I mean, if you do go to their website or, well, I mean, even flashes on the screen on TV, but you… It’s too small for you to even read it, even if you have a giant TV. So go to the website. You’ll find their fine print. You’ll find their terms. You’ll find something that has that success rate listed. Beyond that, maybe you do that, and it is a higher success rate than what I said. There may be other companies out there that kind of look like these companies. Maybe they’re legit. I don’t know. I don’t know why a legit company would want to look like one of these companies, but who knows? You can ask for those success stories. You’re probably, with some of these scam artists, they’re probably going to have a page on their website that kind of walks you through some of their wonderful successes from the past. You’ll have no way. of contacting those people. Again, it’s just marketing fluff at that point. I think one of the most important things is just remember. if it’s too good to be true, it’s probably not true. You need to learn to tell. Are they just telling you what you want to hear to pump you up, to turn you into a good client? I say, hey, sir, talking to someone who’s not particularly attractive, sir, you would be amazing in this convertible. Think of how good you would look in this convertible. No, you’re still not attractive. It’s just a convertible. So these are used car salespeople type. There’s good used car salespeople out there. My dad was a used car salesperson. He was great. So don’t be offended if you’re a used car salesman. But you see my point. They’re going to tell you what you want to hear to push you over the edge to do business with them.

Steven Julian: If I may add, I’m wondering if it would be a good idea to understand clearly when they’re asking you to commit money and what are you paying for. Yes. Understanding what you’re getting for your money.

Noah McNeely: From the first time.

Steven Julian: I met you years ago, one of the things that I have never forgotten is when someone first engages with you in product quick start, they are paying for your time as an expert. Yes. And they are paying for your wealth of knowledge and experience. And you can draw on saying. Here’s all the products I’ve helped bring to market. And by the way, for every one of these, there’s tons that I helped not waste their money. Yes. And that’s a very easy value proposition of what I’m buying.

Noah McNeely: It is. But again, be careful with that particular question. with companies like this, because again, they’re very slick. They know what they’re doing. They are going to tell you exactly what they’re going to do. Hey, you’re going to get a presentation. It’s going to be rendering, animation, website, sales sheet, et cetera, et cetera. But again, that’s not necessarily and usually not what you need, at least at this stage. It’s just not. So they’re going to be honest in a very dishonest way.

Steven Julian: Well, because they’re presenting to inventors, and inventors don’t need that until they’ve actually got their product to prototype, really. I mean, it. really gotten through the problems.

Noah McNeely: Right, exactly. You know, companies, they make their money off of inventors. They don’t make their money with inventors. And I think that’s a key distinction there. And, you know, myself and others that are legit, yeah, we get paid to develop a product for you and et cetera. But really what, you know, at this point in my career, I love success stories because they help me find other great clients. So if you were to come to my office, you know, I’ve got shelves full of products that have actually launched and people have actually bought in stores and on Amazon, et cetera. Then I’ve helped my clients get to the market, and I have a much higher percentage than a 1% success rate. So I think that’s key. One other thing, just to answer your question, what else can you do? Two things. Do your due diligence. Check out, if you can find anyone that has anything to say about these companies, do searches on the internet for people that talk about them. And something that you really should do is check out some of the inventor organizations. I’ll give an example. that just because I know them well, the Chicago Inventors Organization, which you don’t have to be in Chicago to be a member of or to participate in, you can talk to people there and say, hey, what do you think about unnamed companies? And they’re going to tell you, we don’t think much of them. Right.

Steven Julian: And not only that organization, I was, as you were talking about that and you said, you know, You kind of talked about due diligence. I think one of people’s due diligence, and you’ve said this in past episodes, because of social media, because of our connectivity globally through platforms and all the different ways we connect, finding online groups. I mean, Tiffany Crumans, former host of the show, still sponsored through Opu Probiotics, she created a whole LinkedIn group of product. I’m sure you can help people connect with. With online communities where that, instead of asking the company X and saying, you know, unnamed company X and saying, oh, give me a couple of your success stories, going to just the online community, hey, anybody had any experience? And I bet it wouldn’t take long for people to go stay away. from that company. I wasted a ton of money.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, and one, just off of that, one infuriating thing, kind of an add-on to these scams that actually came up. With a client a couple years ago, one of these companies, you know, he was upset. He was pissed about what they didn’t do for all the money he paid them. And they were like, okay, we will give you half your money back if you sign this saying you will not publicly say anything bad about us. That’s pretty low. But that happens too. And I’ve seen this particular company, I’ve seen it twice now. Wow. So it’s…

Steven Julian: When that’s part of your protocol?

Noah McNeely: They’re shady. Very shady.

Steven Julian: I was thinking of a different word that started with SH, but, you know, we, and I could say it on the podcast.

Noah McNeely: Exactly.

Steven Julian: Exactly. Now I’m hungry. Okay. So in, so, and, and it’s funny, we, we’ve, we’ve done a couple of shows here recently where I think one of the growing themes of the message you’re trying to get across is, is we need, there’s a community, there’s a good community. And then there’s a. A community that preys, P-R-E-Y-S, on th

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: