Product Genius, the Podcast for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and Startups

Steven Julian: You ever been out trying to rob a bank with your friends and you get in the getaway car and all of a sudden the getaway car won’t start? Of course not. That’s a stupid question. What isn’t a stupid question is what happens when things go sideways with your product development or your invention? Well, that’s what we’re going to talk about next on Product Genius. And if any feds are listening, I didn’t try to rob a bank. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur?

Noah McNeely: Struggling to get your product from idea to market?

Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius.

Noah McNeely: The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products.

Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. That’s my line. As she said, I am your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian, here for another, hopefully one-day award-winning edition. Of Product Genius from deep in the layer of Product Quick Start. With me, as always, is our producer, Jody Smith. Sitting across the table from me is the host, he who is known as Noah McNeely. Noah, welcome to the show.

Noah McNeely: As always, I am delighted to be here.

Steven Julian: You sound it. We are recording this in the middle of July inside your lair, which is not air conditioned, but you have done a fantastic job of making it as pleasant as possible here.

Noah McNeely: Well, as an engineer, I pride myself on coming up with workarounds. Yeah. And if you were here, you could see my workaround. that’s basically…

Steven Julian: What is it? What have you done here?

Noah McNeely: Well, so we have a very large air conditioner in the office space. We’ve opened the office space into the studios. We’re getting all of that cool air. And we have these portable units, which they call spot coolers, which we use in different parts around the prototyping lab. And they’re all just pointed at us right now.

Steven Julian: Yeah. I mean, we are inside the back end of your building, which is basically a warehouse, your lair, your place to work.

Noah McNeely: And it is not a where it is a prototype.

Steven Julian: Sorry, prototype lab. I must humbly ask the apologies of. the show host, Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: I would point out that my workaround is good enough that you are drinking coffee here in the middle of July.

Steven Julian: Well, what I was trying to do in this three minutes that no one will ever get back, it does make an important point that you help people bring their products to market through Product Quick Start and you do workarounds. You create solutions. You figure things out when things go sideways. Like July heat in Atlanta in Lawrenceville.

Noah McNeely: Yes.

Steven Julian: Okay. Speaking of that, we’ve, and by the way, it wasn’t three minutes. It’s about a minute and a half. And now we’re really ready.

Noah McNeely: You’re just extending it for no reason.

Steven Julian: Okay. Sorry. So we’ve got a great topic today and don’t, okay. So I’ll just say this one last thing. This all started with your, your dry response to how’s it going? You’re like, it’s going great. So I thought he’s a little.

Noah McNeely: Sometimes engineers, that’s all you’re going to get. That’s true. That’s true. You’re going to get the analytical answer like a Vulcan on Star Trek.

Steven Julian: That’s why I’m here to draw it out of you.

Noah McNeely: All the parameters are. acceptable, Captain. That’s right.

Steven Julian: We are within tolerance levels. Yes. Let’s move forward. Okay. So we’ve got a fascinating topic. To quote you from past episodes, for those of you who have never caught our show before, we certainly encourage you to go back and listen to past episodes. And one of the things… Noah loves to do when he comes onto the show is he is on a quest to analogize everything, to bring everything around product development to an analogy, specifically something we’ve all gone through in our life. And you love to do it with TV shows and movies and songs and things like that.

Noah McNeely: Well, you’re a part of that. Oh, I love it. Half of our conversations are about movies.

Steven Julian: Yes.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, you came in today quoting Galaxy Quest. That’s the first thing you do. You walk in here and you don’t even say hi. You just say, your commander has arrived.

Steven Julian: No, your commander’s on deck. Yeah. Which, by the way, there’s a fantastic documentary called Never Give Up, Never Surrender. that, anyway, Screen Junkies did about that movie. Great. Anyway.

Noah McNeely: Bottom line, we both like movies.

Steven Julian: Now we’re three minutes in.

Noah McNeely: I knew. we’d get there.

Steven Julian: Thank you for taking us there, as you always do as such a great show host that you are. So we wanted to talk about, you wanted to talk about the topic of what happens in your product development, in your entrepreneurship, in your invention journey when things go sideways. And when we say the phrase, when things go sideways, there’s a movie genre that you really are thinking about. Tell us about it.

Noah McNeely: So heist movies, you know, people are going to go steal something like, or. Whatever. They’re going to liberate something from its current owners like Ocean’s Eleven or The Italian Job. or if you like Star Wars Solo, I think is a heist movie and people hated it because they wanted it to be a Star Wars movie, but you have to just accept the fact. It is a heist movie set in the Star Wars universe. When you look at it through that lens, it’s actually pretty decent.

Steven Julian: It’s not bad. I think it got a little bit of a bad rap. I was thinking of Mission Impossible. Yeah. I was thinking of any of those new ones coming out as we’re. recording this. And I think also… Maybe one of the lesser known ones, something like Monuments Men, not quite heist, more of a recovery of heist.

Noah McNeely: I have not seen that.

Steven Julian: Yeah, historical, fairly historically accurate whenever they say based on true events. About 1% of it is historically accurate.

Noah McNeely: Loosely based on stuff we think might be true.

Steven Julian: Yeah, getting back the art treasures that were stolen by Nazi Germany. Anyway.

Noah McNeely: So a few things, well, imagine the worst possible heist movie. These people have a great plan. They go in, they rob the bank, they get away. The movie’s over. That’s a pretty boring movie. So one of the things I think is common to almost all heist movies is, well, you’ve got this genius plan. Everything is planned out. You know exactly what’s going to happen. You’ve got the security cameras point here and here, and it’s all this sort of stuff. But then they get in to rob the bank, and something’s gone sideways to mess that plan up. So, like, the bank has installed a new safe, and it’s not the one. the safe crackers have been practicing going, oh, well, now they’ve got guard. dogs. They didn’t have guard dogs last week.

Steven Julian: They changed the shift rotation.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, the getaway driver crash. Whatever it is, there’s something that messes up the plan. And that’s what makes the movie interesting. That’s what makes it fun and exciting. And it’s why we go watch the movie and then they have to adapt and they have to improvise and work their way out of it. And that’s, you know, our heroes are antiheroes. However, you want to look at that. They, you know, most movies, they get away with it ultimately. But when you’re inventing a product or developing a new product. Things are going to go sideways too. And if you’re in that situation, you probably don’t think it’s fun and exciting. You don’t want that to be this fun, exciting addition to your story.

Steven Julian: Right.

Noah McNeely: You want to be the guy that goes and runs the bank and gets away without any complications.

Steven Julian: Yeah. It doesn’t make for entertainment when it comes to your product development or invention journey and things go sideways. That doesn’t necessarily translate well to the big screen or small screen.

Noah McNeely: But someday when they do a movie of your life. story, it will make it more interesting.

Steven Julian: So what are some of the things, what are some of the main things? That as you’ve worked with people over the years, can you categorize them of? what are the things that go sideways more than others?

Noah McNeely: You know, it can be a million things. And it’s always the thing you don’t expect. It could be something small. It could be something big. And whenever you’re developing a new product, you’re in uncharted territory. You may have, you know, we start with a fantastic plan. Everything is planned out. This is what’s going to happen. We’re going to do this. We’re going to do that. We’re going to make this prototype. This is how we’re going to test it. You do all these things, but something’s going to come along and mess up that plan. It could be something as simple as, oh, the color’s not quite right. One time we were making this prototype, and this is a relatively minor one. I ordered these parts, and they were supposed to be purple. And the people making the prototype, they looked at the number code wrong, and we got these green parts. I’m like, what are we going to do with this? We’ve got a trade show in two weeks. So we just had to adapt to that. So it could be something small like that. Something that’s kind of comical, we had this, I had this years ago, I had a client that was selling product into Walmart and they deliver all their pallets to Walmart and UPC codes won’t scan. So the box, they had enlarged the artwork. So now, or they did something. Anyway, UPC codes were printed wrong. So they had to go out to all these Walmart distribution stores, but stickers on all these boxes. So they had to adapt to that. Yeah, I’ve been in this business a lot of time, 25 years, but I also have had many mentors over the years and some of them have told me stories. I had this. one gentleman was telling me a story. This is way back in the day before. They really had a whole lot of computers to keep track of stuff like this, but they say all these drawings and stuff. They sent all these great big steel parts out to be machined at this. machine shop and then they get them back and they’re tiny because the machine shop thought they were supposed to be in millimeters. But they were supposed to be in inches. So, you know, that’s a pretty big sideways thing. But, you know, these things happen. You just have to have to deal with it.

Steven Julian: So as we talk about this topic, it might not necessarily be about categorizing what different types. I guess the lesson here or the thing we want to make sure and cover is how we respond or what we learn from it. Of developing a product that everyone is going to have something along the process where things go sideways.

Noah McNeely: I won’t say everyone, but I plan for it to happen. And that’s what I advise people to do. And I have, I try to have an action plan. You know, I don’t know what it’s going to be, but the most important thing is to have some plans. so you don’t panic. And I think about, I wrote down in my notes, you may have read these. If you’re going in for a major surgery, whatever it is, you haven’t, I don’t know, whatever. surgery. it is, long surgery, I don’t care. It doesn’t matter for the analogy because, like you said, I’m an analogy person. So you’re going in and there’s two possible surgeons. One, you say, well, what happens if I have a cardiac arrest on the table? That surgeon says, well, it’s never happened. No one’s ever gone into cardiac arrest on my table. Well, on the one hand, that sounds fantastic. No, this guy must be amazing. He’s never had anybody, you know, had that sort of problem. Well, that sounds great unless you’re the first one, right? And then the other surgeon, she’s like, well, if this happens, then we all, you know, the entire team, it’s all hands on deck. We have this emergency procedure. we follow and yada, yada, yada, all the steps they go through. Because she’s been through it before. She’s had that problem. I’d rather have her be my surgeon because, you know, something’s going to go wrong potentially in that surgery. I want to make sure that these aren’t people that are going to panic. And I think the… The same is true for you as an inventor, but also anyone you’re working. with. You know, it could be your patent attorney. Do they know how to deal with, well, the patent was rejected or whatever it is. Do they have an action plan for that? It can, of course, be your engineer or your designer. The prototype didn’t work or the factory says we can’t produce it in this material for X, Y, Z. Do we have not so much a plan, but a way to… A mentality on developing a plan around that. How can we react to those situations?

Steven Julian: So you said that when I asked, you know, are there particular types of things that go sideways more often than others? You said it could be a million of them. Is when it comes to the action plans that you can have in place as the person helping develop that product and bring it to market, are those action plans, can they be kind of categorized? Can they be put into some specific things? What are some of the things? You’ve had to do or been ready to do and tell your client, okay, here are some things I can do in these particular parts of the process when things. go sideways.

Noah McNeely: So one of the first things we need to do is to identify the magnitude of the problem. Okay, it’s a problem. We wanted these to be a little bit tighter fitting or a little bit looser, whatever. But it still works. It still does what you want it to do. Then we decide, okay, is this something we want to fix or do we want to go ahead and sell these products? As an example, if we want to fix it, then we certainly go down that path. That delays things and whatnot. Then if it’s a more complicated situation or a situation that really we can’t simply let go, then we have to work through the process of identifying, okay, what’s the cause of the problem? What are the potential fixes for that? Is it a redesign problem? Is it a manufacturing problem? Is it, oh, well, we just can’t simulate this in prototyping materials kind of problem. And then we have different steps we can go through in those cases. So sometimes, you know, sometimes, unfortunately, that may mean additional resources have to be involved. I’ll give an example. We had a client several years. ago that… I really don’t like working with people that are so limited in budget because they don’t hear me when I talk about these things. I told this person at the beginning, you’ve got this complicated product. It’s got big parts. We can try to prototype it with low-cost methods, like 3D printing and things like that. But you’ve got at best a 50-50% chance of us being able to do that. If we can’t do it there, we’re going to have to go to more expensive things like machining. Fabrication and stuff like that, right? I only had the budget for this. Okay, I will do it, but you need to understand. So I didn’t hear any of that. So we got down that path and we built the prototype. It got us about 80% of the way there. We did learn a lot from it, which is a lot of the reason to do prototyping. But of course, it wasn’t everything they needed it to be and they were out of resources there. So one of the things to be aware of is you need to have some… Backup plans. And sometimes those backup plans are going. to involve resources that have a reserve ready. And that can be a reserve in your time and maybe the deadline. Don’t, you know, don’t call me on January 1st and say, I’m delivering, I’m going to have to deliver product in April because you’re taking away all the wiggle room there. So yeah, maybe we can pull that off, but. You’re not leaving any room for error. What if we get the samples back from the factory and we need to tweak them? And now it’s going to be another two weeks to get new samples and things like that. If you don’t allow that space, that may not be additional money resources on your part, but you’ve taken away all the time resource we have to correct that problem.

Steven Julian: I’m just wondering at what point in this journey of someone trying to bring their product to market and things might go sideways. When do they find out the double cross? When do they find out one of the people on their team is actually a secret agent from some unnamed country that I won’t name because I don’t want to irritate anyone from any country or heritage or. background?

Noah McNeely: Canada.

Steven Julian: Well, they can’t get upset, though. That’s all right, dear. Because that’s in a heist movie. There’s always the, he was working for them the whole time. So we don’t have that necessarily. You do have some do’s and don’ts. You kind of do have, you kind of created a list. or let’s just, let’s focus on the don’ts. When things start to go sideways, you started with one at the beginning where you kind of said, don’t panic. What are some other things people have done or you’ve seen them do? Don’t do that. Or let’s, let’s try to avoid some of the bigger mistakes when things start to go sideways.

Noah McNeely: So one thing is, I’ve actually seen people just try to ignore the problem and hope it goes away. That’s not going to work.

Steven Julian: That’s not just product development, by the way.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, well, the truth. Probably financial planning, too, right?

Steven Julian: It’s in many, many areas.

Noah McNeely: So I’ve seen people do that. That’s obviously a mistake. Another mistake, which is probably more common, is that people will try to rush the solution. Okay, we’ve got this problem. The factory sample’s not right. The prototype is broken. Whatever that is. And they want to rush a solution because we’re already behind at that point. And that’s, in many cases, the worst thing you can do because then you may create a worse problem or you may halfway fix a problem. And that’s really an opportunity to take a step back and ask yourself, okay, since we’ve got to take the time to fix this, what else have we learned in this process up to this point that we might actually be able to add in to improve this product? Because now we’ve got to take this extra two weeks or whatever. This broke, so we definitely have to fix that, but we also learned, oh, it’d be nice if it had another handle or whatever it is. Let’s go ahead and do that at the same time.

Steven Julian: Some of these answers, like a good heist movie, there’s not much difference between the thing you should do or you can learn from and the thing that don’t do. You’re almost talking out of both sides of your mouth. I’m kind of calling you out on the carpet here if you had carpet back in this area.

Noah McNeely: And I. appreciate that.

Steven Julian: But I’m sorry, this prototyping lab.

Noah McNeely: That’s right.

Steven Julian: I got it right. Thank you. It is a layer. I’ve gotten Noah to say layer on the air. But yeah, I’m going to push back a little bit. Because there’s a million different things that you’ve seen this go wrong. There really isn’t a A, B, C, D. I mean, you talked about in the operating room, to go back to your analogy, oh, we have these procedures in place. Sometimes the procedure is trial and error, right? And sometimes it’s, we may need to know when to cut off the trial and error or when to adjust for, okay, this trial and error isn’t going to work. We’re going to completely turn it on its head. I mean, every, that’s one of the reasons why you do this. Every single product is like, right. Completely unique, correct? And there’s no question in that.

Noah McNeely: Yeah, there’s no roadmap for your individual product. It’s not going to be, oh, well, this happened, so I’m going to open a manual and follow the instructions. It’s really more about the attitude of don’t panic, calm down, take a step back, evaluate, okay, what are our options? Even the ones you don’t really like, what are they? So we can… Be very objective in how we decide between those options. And what are the ones that, okay, what’s the easy one we can try? Let’s try that if that works. And, you know, we can stop there. We don’t necessarily have to go to the most complicated solution right out the gate. But that all being said, be open to other, what I just said, because I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, be open to opportunities in this space. This is close.

Steven Julian: I’ve ever heard you to being a politician. This is fantastic. Normally, at this point in time, I usually reset a podcast that I’m co-hosting and being slightly annoyed. Hey, we’re talking to Noah McNeely.

Noah McNeely: I support everything you’re for and nothing you’re against.

Steven Julian: Rather than resetting who the guest is because you’re the host of the show, what I think is smart to do here is to remind everybody we are talking about what happens when things go sideways and we’re kind of trying to… Analogize them to heist movies. Right. But I think what I. want to reset is I think the number one reason why you brought this topic to the show is to just. If nothing else, we need to acknowledge things are going to go sideways.

Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely.

Steven Julian: As you talk out of both sides of your mouth and as I try to, you know, kind of pin you down a little bit and do’s and don’ts. You know what? If you get nothing else from this episode, things are going to go sideways.

Noah McNeely: And some people hire me or people like me and they’re like, I can’t believe this went sideways. It’s like, you should have known. Despite the fact that people may think so, I’m not a magician. I cannot foresee the future and we can follow everything by the textbook, which things are still going to go sideways. But my point here is you got to get beyond that textbook of engineering because that textbook’s not going to tell you how to fix the problem. It really comes more from the intuition and the experience of knowing things are going to go wrong. Again, it could be small, it could be big, but what’s the process for handling that? And the other thing I would say that I may have made this up. I may have read it somewhere. I don’t really remember because I’m getting older, but I’ve heard it said that a crisis is just an opportunity with a deadline. And I think that’s a way we can look at problems as well. It’s like, okay, like I was saying before, okay, we got this back from the factory. The first sample, it’s two loops. Well, okay, so we’re going to have to go back to have the factory modify those tools. Three weeks ago, you were saying, I wish we’d added this feature to it. Well, let’s ask the factory, can you do that while we’re modifying these tools anyway? Yeah. So there are often opportunities here as well.

Steven Julian: I think you brought up heist movies and kind of tried to bring up when things go sideways. You know, it’s funny, the more you talk, I think of the movie Meet the Robinsons, which was not a heist movie. But it was quoted in our house as our boys were growing up. They loved that movie. And it’s such a great message around the dinner table. You fail. That’s fantastic. From failure, we learn. From success, not so much. And so Keep Moving Forward was the… And that’s a quote from Walt himself. And they turned it into a movie with a dinosaur and a hat that tried to control. It’s just a fascinating.

Noah McNeely: My most vivid memory of that movie is the fact that the Tyrannosaurus had little tiny arms and couldn’t do anything.

Steven Julian: Right. And was talking because of, of course, my favorite is Dolores sleeps with the fishes. Little Dolores sleeps with the fishes. So I think, you know, again, the number one point is things are going to go sideways. Plan some procedures or make some decisions of what you will do when things go sideways. And you’ve kind of brought up, okay, things are going sideways. Is there something we need to learn or adjust to here? Or is this pointing out a problem that maybe we need to go, we need to completely pivot or change or… Or just say, now it’s time to throw in the towel.

Noah McNeely: And this is not just in the inventing process or the development process. It can be in your marketing. Yeah. I mean, you can, the thing that can go sideways is, oh, I thought I was going to market this to 20 to 30 year old men, but it turns out teenage girls really like it. So you pivot. That’s okay. That’s something you learn in that process. Yeah. Yeah. I may sound a little defeatist that things are going to go sideways. It’s going to happen. You’re going to wake up one day and you’re going to be really upset because things are going to go sideways. But there are ways, there are things we can do to try to limit that and mitigate that. Of course, having a good, some of the textbook policies and procedures, having a good procedure to design and engineer things is always good. Another thing I like to recommend to people is do what’s called a test run or a pilot run. Big companies do this too. You know, you don’t. Have to make $30,000 or something right out the gate. Make $1,000 or something. Make $500 or something. That’s going to depend on what the product is. But that way, let’s say it’s something that we can test it up, down, left, and right. We’re still not going to find it, but you’re going to find it when your consumers start to give feedback. So then you’ve only got $1,000. you’ve got out there that maybe have this unpredictable flaw. And then we can adjust that product and you can… Release a second version. You might even reach back out to the people that bought the first version, however you want to run your business there. So do a pilot run. That makes a lot of sense. And sometimes people look at that and say, well, the per item cost is going to be higher if I do a small number. Yes, that’s true, but it’s worth it.

Steven Julian: The overall savings or the overall growth in sales as you learn from those test runs can return the investment. Test your results, right? So it’s not just do a pilot run, do a small run to then see how it’s working. Sometimes it’s also test the results and here we’re good. We got a marketing or sales.

Noah McNeely: Right. Well, test, test, test. That’s the second thing I wrote down here. And it’s, you know, I had a client one time that they were in a. real hurry to release their product on the market. And so we went through the prototype stage. Prototype was fine. And we did the tooling. We went into manufacturing. They got the first samples back from the factory and they really didn’t take the time to test them the way we had gone through the prototype because they were just in a hurry. I just want to start selling this stuff. And there was a minor issue there. They didn’t catch, but if they had spent a week testing it, they would have. So then the factory goes out and produces thousands of these things because client signed off on it. And it turns out that it did have this very small issue that could have been easily corrected prior to production. Test, test, test. Don’t be in such a hurry that you skip things like testing because you’re just adding way too much risk. This is all about the first time you’re producing something. And once you get down the road, then you can hurry production, you know, second order, third order. But your first order, there’s so many things that can go wrong. You just need to take. the time to do it right.

Steven Julian: Sometimes when we do this show, we like to get to the end and we’d like to wrap it all up, put a nice little bow on it and go, here, here’s a present of our show with all kinds of stuff for you. This isn’t that show.

Noah McNeely: This is your way of telling me I’ve talked too much, I think. No, not at all. No, not at all.

Steven Julian: Not at all. What I think I’m doing is I think we’ve gone as far down this sideways path as we can go and just acknowledging that we’re going to kind of get to the end. Everybody’s going to be like, well, what’s this? How do I keep things from going sideways? It’s a grind. You got to keep working. Keep testing. Keep doing little runs. I just said little runs. That’s probably the right thing to say. I think we might need to edit that out. 25 minutes. Yeah. Make a little note. Sorry.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. You, you, you can’t totally prevent it. Uh, what you can do is you take it just like any sort of insurance. You take all the steps you can. take to, to limit the possibility, but it’s still going to happen. I mean, you can have all the insurance on the house you want, but there’s tree can still fall through the roof, you know, but then you’ve got a plan on how to deal with that.

Steven Julian: I was going to use that. you can buy insurance for almost anything nowadays. And I think sometimes people just have so much. I don’t think there’s any limit to how much insurance you can buy, but you still can’t avoid something’s going to something’s going to not be covered or something’s going to things you have to adjust to.

Noah McNeely: Yeah. So in this case, your insurance is taking the time to do it right. Testing, testing, testing. Don’t don’t rush it. Even still. You know, things can start to go sideways. And that’s usually not going to happen in the design phase because that’s all kind of theoretical. It’s really going to start happening once you get into the physical reality of prototypes or manufacturing. That’s typically where you would have it happen. Or in the real world of sales and marketing, when you actually start the reality of your product. being out in the universe where people can engage with it. That’s when we’re going to start to have things go sideways.

Steven Julian: I was thinking that what might be a nice little wrap-up question is to ask, hey, has this show gone sideways today that you want to point out? But I think the better question might be, so you said, hey, you almost need to anticipate. very few people go through this product development without something going sideways. I still think it’s almost everybody would look, any product, there hasn’t been a product that hasn’t at least one little thing goes sideways, which makes me go, Have any of our shows, have we had a show where it didn’t go sideways at some point? Probably not because I’m slightly annoying.

Noah McNeely: Oh, I can think of one or two.

Steven Julian: That didn’t go sideways?

Noah McNeely: Oh, they did go sideways. I thought you were asking the other question.

Steven Julian: Yeah, every show I think I’ve ever done.

Noah McNeely: I was trying to be polite by saying I can think of one or two. Yeah, all of us.

Steven Julian: Yeah, I think every episode of Product Genius goes sideways. And maybe it’s the sideways that keeps. people coming back. Because like a heist movie, it’s exciting. How is Steven going to waste Noah’s time on this episode of Product Genius? Well, we know at the beginning of it, it was to talk about your prototyping lab.

Noah McNeely: Well, I need you to pull me out of my engineering level of excitement. Yes, exactly.

Steven Julian: Which I did. Sorry, that was a little snidely laugh.

Noah McNeely: This has been fabulous.

Steven Julian: It has. It has. So another fabulous thing as we wrap up today is anyone who… Is going sideways now or is thinking their product development journey might go sideways and they need some help? Tell everybody how to get in touch with you.

Noah McNeely: So the best way is to go to the website, productquickstart.com, and we have a contact us form. Just give me a little information so I know what you want to talk about and make sure I’m the right person to help you. That’s it. I mean, it’s not complicated. I’m a simple guy.

Steven Julian: And one of the things you’ve also done is this show, Product Genius, is your give back to the entrepreneur community and the invention community where you talk about a lot of. different topics and you

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: