Steven Julian: So what kind of dating relationships have you had? You had some good ones? You had some bad ones? Well, we could talk about them, but instead we’re going to talk about how inventing and product development is kind of like dating. Coming up next on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Steven Julian: Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. Noah McNeely: The down-to-earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Noah McNeely: Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian.

Steven Julian: That’s my line. Yeah, welcome to another hopefully award-winning edition of Product Genius. I am, as was stated already, your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. Jody Smith is our producer and sitting across the table inside the layer of product. quick start. It is the host of Product Genius, Noah McNeely. Greetings and salutations, Noah. Noah McNeely: Well, good morning. How are you? Steven Julian: I am fantastic. I think it’s afternoon, but it’s morning somewhere. We have been enjoying the newest beverage in your refrigerator inside the layer of Product Quick Start. They’re not even a sponsor of the show. You know who is a sponsor of the show? Opu Probiotics, opuprobiotics.com with former host Tiffany Krumans. And you gave us, Jody and I, lovely refreshment. Dr. Pepper Zero Sugar Strawberries and Cream. I’m enjoying that beverage and it got me even more excited about doing this show today. So thank you for your nice beverage. Noah McNeely: Well, when you discover something you love, you should share it. Steven Julian: Absolutely. So I just shared it with our audience. We didn’t even get paid by them. So anyway. Noah McNeely: I think we should note that we do not recommend mixing Opu and Dr. Pepper at the same time. Enjoy one and then the other. Steven Julian: That public service announcement was brought to you by. Product Genius host, Noah McNeely. That’s great. That’s good advice. Noah McNeely: Well, we’ve done no testing, so we just don’t know what the effect could be. Steven Julian: But we do know the effect of taking Opu probiotics by itself. It’ll help your gut health, and that’s a good thing. Live longer, prosper well, bring your product to market. That’s why you’re listening to this show, Product Genius. Noah McNeely: You probably really need it after a few cans of Dr. Pepper. Steven Julian: Yes. So I’m only having one. I’m only going to enjoy one. Keep it in moderation. Anyway, all right, enough sponsor talk of hopefully future sponsor with Dr. Pepper. But we are talking about. we’re talking about product development. We’re talking about bringing your product to market. And as you are want to do, we have an interesting little take on a double meaning. So we are going to talk about how and this is your idea, how inventing is like dating. Where’d this come from? Noah McNeely: Well, I think it comes from my. It’s an ongoing hope to analogize everything to product development in some way or another. So I was thinking about the show today and I was thinking, what can we talk about? We have all sorts of things to talk about, but how can we make them really interesting? How can we push them through a lens that people might relate to? And it occurred to me that developing a product, inventing a product is a little bit like dating. There are a lot of healthy. relationships out there. There are also a lot of unhealthy relationships. And when I thought about people I met over the years, it occurred to me that many of them have unhealthy relationships with their invention ideas that are analogous to unhealthy dating relationships. Steven Julian: So everybody listening to this, almost everybody listening to this episode, when they heard that analogy, they probably stopped. And if they haven’t, I want them to do it now. And I want you to think of… At least one dating relationship and how you would categorize that relationship. Think of, and I think everyone probably thinks of a bad one first. And they, you know, what does that look like? What type of relationship that was? I was going to ask your permission. I didn’t get this before the show, but I think it’d be good. Let me just kind of run down the list of what you created, the different. Types of relationships and then we can kind of hit them one at a time. Noah McNeely: I did not create these and I’m not responsible for them. I’m just reporting what I see. Steven Julian: Yeah, you made some notes. So some of the different types of. dating relationships, there’s the love at first sight. That’s probably a positive one, but might turn negative. I don’t know. We’ll get into that. There’s abusive dating relationships. Clearly, that’s a negative one. Maybe a relationship that started well, but has gotten stale. So you might be in a stale dating relationship. A relationship where one or both partners have a fear of commitment. The relationship, I think it was made into a movie. He’s just not that into you. And then the last one, you know what? I’m going to save that one. We’ll see if we get there because you said that might be. Noah McNeely: Oh, we’re getting there because it’s controversial. Steven Julian: Oh, so it’s controversial. So let me just leave that. Noah McNeely: That’s my favorite one. Steven Julian: That’s the tease. All right. So let’s get through these five that are good, but not your favorite. And we’ll get to that. So that’s a good little tease for our podcast. So Love at First Sight. A lot of people have different stories about that when it comes to actually dating. What do you mean by that when you’re talking about inventing and product development? Noah McNeely: Well, so in the dating space, I. mean, Love at First Sight, that’s great. We probably, you know, if you’ve been a teenager, you probably experienced it. It’s wonderful. It feels great. And sometimes that leads to a wonderful relationship. Sometimes you just sort of can’t get out of that and you end up in a relationship that doesn’t really go anywhere. You’re just sort of blindly in love. In the invention space, I mean that I meet sometimes, I sometimes meet people that have this idea, they’re walking down the street, they have this epiphany, they’re doing their job, they have this great idea, this great solution. It just hit them and they love it. It’s the best thing it can be. It’s better than sliced bread. It’s whatever it is to them. They love it so much that they can never break out of that love at first sight condition. And they don’t want to hear, you know, you may have, they come in, I give them advice. I say, you know, anyone that knows me knows I’m going to call things like I see it. I’m going to, you know, if there’s a problem, I’m going to identify it as quickly as I can. But these are people that they don’t want to hear. You know, I can say, you know, look, that’s great, but here’s the five laws of physics that breaks up. Then sometimes I’ve had people say, well, I just don’t think you’re the right person for me to work with. Okay, that’s fine. And then I never hear from them again. I also never see their product on the market. So apparently they were unable to overcome the laws of physics, even using another engineer. Steven Julian: You can’t stay at love at first sight. You’ve got to work on the relationship. Same way you might have. that epiphany of this would make a great product. You’ve got to go beyond the love at first sight and actually go through the grind of developing it. Longtime fans of this show might appreciate. Maybe it’s not the best example, but the first one that popped into my mind is the Easter egg we’ve had of this show of leaning this way and that, leaning in and whispering, we need more vegan options. So that might have been a love at first sight idea, but you got to move on. Okay. Noah McNeely: Yeah. So it’s. to get from that to, well, in the love at first sight, in the real world with your relationships, at some point you’ve got to learn. More about the real person. You can’t simply say, oh, her eyes are so beautiful. And that’s as far as you get. And you just think about her eyes all day and you love her eyes. And then your buddy said, yeah, but you know, you know, she stabbed a guy, right? You know, there’s more to this person than just that love at first sight. Steven Julian: Her eyes looked great as she was saying all these mean things about you behind your back. Noah McNeely: Exactly. And there’s more to your idea than just that first moment in which you were enamored by it, which you thought, oh, this is amazing. I’m a genius. It’s the best thing ever. There’s a lot more to it in terms of building a business than just that first really exciting moment. Steven Julian: All right. Number two, abusive. Now, this is, I can see, so I’m going to cheat a little bit or I’m going to take way too much liberty, be slightly annoying again. I’ve worked with you long enough. I’ve talked to you long enough and I’ve done this show with you in its various forms. I know one of the things we’ve talked about is companies that Advertise on TV that are abusive and how they, oh, we’ll help you with a patent or we’ll help you, you know, and you’ve mentioned it that, you know, anybody can do a mock-up, you know, any engineer can do some work. That was the first thing I thought of. I’m thinking you might have more to it than that. So how is inventing and product development like an abusive dating relationship? Noah McNeely: So I was, when I wrote this, I was thinking more along the lines of your relationship. With your invention or with your idea. But what you’re talking about, I would almost call that more predatory relationships. That’s fair. To catch a predator, maybe ABC will do a special on it someday. Steven Julian: After school special. Yeah, after school special. Noah McNeely: Have you seen a late night TV ad? Have you called this number? There is help out there. So what I was talking about really more like, you know, you… We’ve all seen TV shows. We’ve all seen movies where. there are people involved in an abusive relationship. Maybe you’ve seen it in real life, your cousin or whoever, and they, you know, it’s this person and they’re a great person. They’re doing everything on their side of the relationship, but the, you know, the other person, all they do is sit on the couch or in more darker areas of this. Maybe it’s a physically abusive relationship. I don’t want, don’t want this to get too dark, but in any event, it’s a situation where you. You are doing everything you can, but you’re not getting anything in the other direction. And with regards to your invention idea, this may be something that you’re just not making any progress on. You are continuing to put time, money, effort into it, and you’re not getting any further along the path. And I’ve met people that kind of are stuck in this space where it kind of relates to what we talked about, the love at first sight, but it’s a little bit deeper than that in the sense that they’ve worked on it so long. That they just can’t imagine not continuing to work on it. And they, but they’re, they’re not making, they’re no, they’re no further along than they were a year ago or six months ago or whatever it is because, but there just may not be a path forward in that case. And I’ve met people like that and I have, I’ve, you know, tried to explain to them, you know, here’s the reasons this is not getting across the finish line for you. These are problems I can’t solve. Here’s some I can help you with and maybe we can unstick it. But a lot of times there’s just no way forward with some ideas. I mean, that’s unfortunate, but sometimes you just need to break that idea down, go back to the drawing board and do something different. Steven Julian: And I was thinking in terms of people, and that’s going to be my natural tendency as we talk about, you know, how is it like dating relationships? But you’re talking about the actual product, the actual invention. I’ve been working on this and working on this. And there’s just something you can’t get past. It’s almost like that product or that invention is being abusive back to the inventor. Noah McNeely: Right. That product is just sitting. or that idea is just sitting in your garage, just like the, you know, the junkie boyfriend that just sits on your couch while you go and, you know, you go to work every day. Steven Julian: And, yeah. And one of your ways that you help through Product Quickstart, and you’ve shared many of these stories. Is to, hey, if you want to get this to market, you’re going to have to change this or this, or you can’t have it with the 15 different features. You got to take these seven off, then maybe we can get it. So that’s one of the things you do is you’re willing to. You’re willing to call that product, that invention, that idea is being abusive to you. Noah McNeely: Right. And sometimes there’s just not a way to get from point A to point B with that particular idea. And, you know, I try to call that out where I can. And usually I try to do it with as good of a bedside manner as I can. It’s like, we can’t, this idea isn’t going to work, but I love the problem you’re trying to solve. Let’s see if we can solve it. a different way. And, you know, let’s dump this boyfriend and go find someone better. Let’s go find someone who’s already got a job. Steven Julian: This would be better for you. You could do so much better. All right. Noah McNeely: It’s both genders. Let’s dump this girlfriend. Yeah, that’s true. Whatever it is. We don’t want to get in any trouble there. This is a gender-neutral show. Steven Julian: And, you know, it’s funny. I don’t know if any of our listeners are potentially getting offended. Obviously, you start talking about abusive relationships. We’re, we want to be careful. You know, these are real things that happen to real people. We’re, we’re just doing an analogy and, and we’re trying to, what are some of the things that help in these situations? So will you allow us a little bit of tongue in cheek and comedy and, and, and just have a little fun around the entire topic, recognizing that we’re not making light of any. Noah McNeely: This is not how to escape your abusive relationship with Steven and Noah. Steven Julian: No, that’s next season. No, sorry. Okay. Third one, we are, we’re kind of, we’re ticking these off. I like this. We’re, you know, relationship, product relationship doctor, Noah McNeely. Speaking of Dr. Pepper. Okay. Fear of commitment. No, I’m sorry. Has gotten stale. Has gotten stale. Yeah, yeah. I already, I was so, it was so stale. Actually, so it has gotten stale. Now, that’s kind of in the same category as, It is. Noah McNeely: They’re relating and there’s all sorts, there’s a spectrum of bad relationships out there. So, you know, maybe this isn’t an abusive relationship in the real world. You know, maybe you and your significant other, you get along fine. Nobody’s really taking advantage of the other, but you also just sort of sit on the couch looking at each other and you don’t have anything else to say. You don’t, you’re not doing fun stuff anymore. And it’s just, it’s just sort of, you know, it is what it is. You’re not progressing in the relationship. Now, let me be. Let me be clear. There’s some people. that’s what they want. That’s great. That’s fine. You do you. But in terms of launching a business, which is the perspective I come from, that’s not so good in the invention space. So sometimes, gosh, I would call these people hobbyists, hobby. people that I meet. Inventing is their hobby or their invention is their hobby. They built this thing in their garage and it’s the same thing they built a year ago. And okay, they changed the color, but it’s the same. And all they’re doing is that they may go to these inventor clubs and things, but they’re really not progressing toward a business in any way. And again, that’s fine. If that’s what you want to do and it’s your hobby and you enjoy it, more power to you. That’s not why I’m here. Yeah. Steven Julian: If they have self-awareness about that and that’s all they’re, I’m just, hey, I’m just piddling. Nothing wrong with that as long as you acknowledge it. If they think I’m still sitting on this billion dollar idea and they’re not. Right. Noah McNeely: So I met so many people that on the, I shouldn’t say that. I met some people over the years that on the surface, they’re like, I want to build a business. I want to do this. I want to do that. Their actions do not reflect that. Steven Julian: All right. So that question was getting a little stale. So why don’t we move? on to the next one? Yeah. See what I did there? This was the one I wanted to jump ahead to apparently on the last one. So fear of commitment. Right. How can a product or an invention have a fear of commitment? Noah McNeely: Like the stale relationship, this is maybe something that progresses, but only up to the point where you’re going to have to put some real-time effort or money into it. So you just don’t want to make that leap. In the dating world, maybe you don’t want to go exclusive or you don’t want to get married or whatever it is for you at that point. In the invention world, I run into people also. They’re all gung-ho. They’re excited, but they just get to a plateau. All right, to go forward, I’m going to have to tool up the, you know, I’m going to have to work with the factory to tool up. That’s going to cost $8,000 or whatever it is. It’s like, I don’t know if I want to do that. And then they wallow in that. I don’t know if I want to proceed back and forth, back and forth for a long. time. And they miss their market or they eventually just, they abandon it or they just can’t get over that. So I think it’s important at the start of your relationship with your invention to. Kind of know, am I willing to go all the way to the conclusion of this or not? And if not, again, that’s okay, but you’re probably still more of a hobby person than you are a serious business person in this particular case. At some point, it could be a big number, it could be a small number, depending on the product. You are going to reach a point where you have to commit resources, time, money. Maybe it’s other people’s money, but that’s your time to go get that money. You’re going to have to commit that effort. I’m not going to write you a check. I can’t do that. It’s not why I’m here. But there are people that can, but you have to put in that effort to go out and find those people. Steven Julian: You know, it’s funny. And I know you’ve got tons of stories, but we’ve got one. Just recently, we had Tiffany Crumans back on the show. She. has told the story. She put a link to the show she was on. And starting OPU, she was going through that process and she was tweaking it. And it came to a point where she said, I’ve got to make the jump. And it was a commitment of her time, her energy, her other projects like this show where she had to step away and say, I’m going to put all my energy into OPU. And thankfully, she’s let us continue the show. But yeah, I mean, we’ve got our own example here in our little family of this show. The other thing I was going to say, it wasn’t on the list, but I would imagine the spectrum to the other side of that, because I’ve heard you tell stories of people of overcommitment, of just throwing money at something and not spending wisely. So that dating relationship where they’re spending all your money. Noah McNeely: Yeah, in fact, there’s that TV show, I think, you know, Married in 90 Hours or whatever it is. I haven’t either. Not the kind of stuff I watch. I think I’ve seen it advertised. I don’t even know if that’s the right name. You know, you have to wonder, is that going to work out or not? I mean, yeah, it might work out because they may love each other or they may simply become dedicated to each other, et cetera. But in my culture, the culture I’m used to, that would be a very unusual thing to do. And I think there are people that certainly they go out on a couple of dates and they’re married. That’s great. You know, you know that fast, you’re ready to commit that fast in the real world, in dating world. That’s awesome. In the invention world, I would say similarly. That would be rare to find success in. I would say you need to take the time to do your due diligence. Get to know your invention’s parents. Get to know your invention’s friends. Get to know if your invention has stabbed anybody before you get married to your invention. Steven Julian: That’s twice you’ve brought up stabbings. That’s another side issue we’ll have to get into. All right. The last one I brought up before the tease of the most controversial one to come. Is he or she is not that into you, but in. product development, it’s it. You know, it may not be that into you. What exactly are you talking of? Noah McNeely: Okay, so I’m going to admit this one’s a bit of a stretch in terms of the analogy. Wait, wait, wait. The analogy starts to break down. Well, the analogy started breaking down several. Steven Julian: You go far enough down the list. It’s a copy of a copy. Yeah. Noah McNeely: So the idea here is, you know, this is an idea that may not be that unique to you. So, you know, maybe this is an idea that other people have or have had, or maybe there’s a product out there. Sadly, I have met people that have come in my door that have already spent thousands of dollars on their own developing something that I can find in 10 minutes, Googling it on eBay or Amazon. Is this what you’re talking about? Yeah, it’s been on the market for five years. or yeah, this product existed in the 1980s. I don’t think there’s anything preventing you from making it, but just understand it’s not new. You know, it’s no longer under patent or whatever, but anyone can make it at this point. So just be aware of that. And then oftentimes in those cases, we will take a step back and say, is there something new and unique I can add to this so I can have something patentable or whatever the case may be in that particular. But I, you know, so I guess that he’s just not that into you. He’s dating lots of people. That’s sort of the analogy there. Steven Julian: Ah, there are other relationships already in existence. I’ve got this metal spring and it’ll go downstairs. It’s great. I’ve got this rock. I’ll put it in this nice box with, I’m really dating myself with, you know, the pet rock and the slinky. Noah McNeely: So that pet rock, that’s, that’s a deep cut. Steven Julian: Okay. It’s time. Noah McNeely: You know, we built this up way too much. Yeah. Steven Julian: Well, you’re the one who did it. Okay. Sorry. I can’t. Don’t blame the host. I’m the slightly annoying co-host. It’s my fault. Okay. So the last, so that the, as the analogy starts to break down, actually what it is, is you’re going to pull it back. There’s one more good analogy I think you can have of the invent, inventing and. product development is like dating. You stated with, you put on your list here, play in your league. Yes. I’m not even sure I know what the dating analogy is with playing your league. Noah McNeely: Well, so, okay, the reason I think this is controversial is because I don’t want us to come off as shallow, but, you know, human beings can be shallow. And, you know, we’ve all been teenagers. We’ve all, you know, we’ve all said, oh, she’s a nine or he’s a nine or she’s a four, he’s a four. And it’s very rare to see, you know, a relationship between a four and a nine work out. And it happens, you know, speaking. As a four who is happily married to a nine, I know you’re listening, honey. Love you. It can happen and it can work out really, really well. But that’s probably a little bit more rare. I mean, in high school and college, you know, sevens tend to go to, sevens tend to gravitate towards sevens. Nines tend to gravitate toward nines. It’s just the way the world is. Steven Julian: Here’s my deep cut. Noah McNeely: Well, I don’t want to be, I want to be clear. Not just physical appearance. You can be a nine for lots of reasons. Maybe you have a great sense of humor, personality, good at sports, whatever it is. We’re not shallow people here. Not entirely shallow people. Steven Julian: Well, I was going to say, and you were basing it on a ranking of the person, but I guess from different backgrounds or from different, you know, have different likes. I mean, there’s a lot of different ways more than just looks. But for the deep cut, I was going to go with the movie Can’t Buy Me Love. So they’re showing my age, right? How is he with her? You know, that kind of. Noah McNeely: 1980s. Steven Julian: Yeah, yeah. I think Patrick Dempsey. Yeah. So one of his first roles. Anyway, so. Noah McNeely: Probably people listening who don’t even know who he is. Steven Julian: Grey’s Anatomy. He was on Grey’s Anatomy for a long time. Noah McNeely: That was also a long time ago. Steven Julian: Yeah. Again, deep cut. There’s a reason why it’s a deep cut. So, hey, listen, last show we were talking about Stuart Smalley and Jack Handy. So, you know, hey. That’s my lane. I’ll play in my league. That’s my league. So go. ahead. Noah McNeely: Well, speaking of deep thoughts, what does this have to do with inventions? Steven Julian: Yeah, please tell us. Noah McNeely: Playing in your own league. So my point here is sometimes maybe you’re a four, but your invention idea, maybe it’s a nine. And what I mean by that is, okay, maybe. It’s this great idea for this heart monitor that’s Wi-Fi connected that, you know, it has AI and it’ll use a satellite to let your doctor know, hey, this guy had a palpitation. That’s a pretty cool idea. That’s a 10. You know, that’s going to be millions of dollars to develop. And if you’re not in the medical field and you don’t understand electronics and you don’t know anything about Wi-Fi and satellite communications, In this space, you’re probably a four. This may not be the best invention relationship for you. Not to say you couldn’t pull it off. It’s just you’re going to have a much steeper battle, a lot more work to do to make that be a success. Just like, you know, a four, stay with a nine. There’s possibly a lot more effort there than otherwise. That’s really what I was, the analogy I’m making. Steven Julian: Well, if you’re, if, yeah. So if your idea is way outside of your knowledge base. Noah McNeely: Or outside your resources to pull off. That’s true. It’s, you know, even if you are a heart surgeon and et cetera, you may not have the time or the money. Even heart surgeons probably don’t all have millions of dollars laying around to develop something like this. Right. And that means you’re going to have to take the time to go out. And get investors on board. And you have to be willing to do that. If you don’t have those time or money resources, then you’re still maybe not a fit for that, even if you do know that market really well. Steven Julian: Yeah, it was probably a bad example. I know there are stories of people who I’m going to get to space or I’m going to build, you know, the guy who built on a lawn chair with big balloons. I think he fell. Your appetite is bigger than them. I don’t know what the, yeah. So when you’re, okay, please rescue. Noah’s just going to let me twist in the wind and ruin what he had as a great analogy. and the most controversial. So the big topic was it’s hard to kind of say, hey, why are you with that person? That person might be a little out of your league. That’s something we don’t say anymore. That’s not politically correct to say that. And with product development, it’s like, That’s a great idea. That might be hard for you to do by yourself or you might need to bring in some help or that might be out of the scope of what you can accomplish. Noah McNeely: However, I would suggest if you have people that you’re really close to and trust and they trust you, they might be willing to have those conversations with you. Again, I know you’re madly in love with this person, but they’re just taking advantage of you. That’s not something a stranger is going to tell you. Someone you love, they might be willing to tell you. Steven Julian: Be careful you don’t bite off more than you can chew. That was what I was trying to rescue. And if that doesn’t work, just be gracious with me and we’ll move on. You did one other nice little bonus for this episode. Noah McNeely: I did. Steven Julian: You went. to your old friend, ChatGPT. Tell everybody what you did. Noah McNeely: So, you know, we’ll kind of sum up before we get there. Healthy inventing is like healthy dating. You know, it’s start by getting to know the idea, gradually build up that level of commitment, do all your due diligence, you know, don’t rush into a Las Vegas wedding. That’s sort of the… Sort of the bottom line on what I was trying to get. But to support all this, and just because it was getting late when I was writing this, and I was like, oh, this will be fun. I went to ChatGPT and I said, give me some general dating advice. And I thought, well, how would we relate some of what it, and it gave me a whole list. How would we relate this to inventions? We’ll go through this quickly because it actually gave me a ton of stuff. First step, self-reflection. Take the time to understand your own needs, your own wants, your own values before you go out and find someone to date. So in the invention, what is it you know? What is it you can accomplish? What is it that you’re? passionate about? Start trying to find an invention in that space or a problem to solve in that space. Steven Julian: Inventor know thyself? Would that be the… I love it. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Inventor know thyself. We should write that as a book. Yeah. And then sort of relay that, define your ideal partner, you know, based on what you’ve learned about yourself. What are the qualities of an invention that you’d like to see? You know, what’s important to you and how does that translate into an invention? It’s like, you know, I really want to help people in, in, you know, in the medical space, or I really want to do something for kids because I love kids and I love playing with kids and whatever it is. Or I’m a, you know, I’m a dad and I love, I love going on road trips, which we’ll talk about later, going on road trips with my family. What’s something I can invent in that space? Steven Julian: That would be a good flash of genius we should do. Noah McNeely: Oh, I think we should. Steven Julian: Oh, okay. Go on. Go on. ChatGPT. Noah McNeely: Expand your social circle. Put yourself in situations where you can meet. new people. In the invention space, I would say you need to put yourself in situations where you can experience problems to solve or opportunities to take advantage of. You’re not going to invent something just sitting on your couch. Figure out you’re doing your hobbies, you’re woodworking, you’re gardening, you’re doing your job, whatever. That’s where you’re going to find. Pain points or things that’s like, oh man, this is a really frustrating thing to do every single day. I wish I had something that made it a little bit easier, a little bit better to do. And that’s where your invention idea might come from. Be open-minded, you know, same kind of deal. You know, keep an open mind when meeting new people. Don’t limit yourself. I think that kind of relates to one of the things we talked about earlier. Don’t be so enamored by your first idea. Be open-minded to changing it, evolving it. What can this idea become? Or maybe there’s even better ideas out there. Take initiative. Don’t be afraid to take the first move. You’ve got to start somewhere. If you’re inventing something, you can’t just think about it. You’ve got to actually. put pen to paper and start hammering some wood together. Communication is k

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: