Steven Julian: Is your product developer right for you? You plucked them out of the stream of the internet and now you’re wondering, man, if I just had a field guide to help me decide if this is the right person for me and my product. Well, we’ve got that field guide and it’s coming up next on Product Genius. Do you want to be a successful inventor entrepreneur? Struggling to get your product from idea to market? Well, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Product Genius. The Down to Earth podcast that explores important topics about inventing and launching new products. Noah McNeely is your trusted guide. With more than 20 years of product launch experience, he’s here to help you on your journey to become a product genius. Let’s get started. Here’s your slightly annoying co-host, Steven Julian. That’s my line. I’m the slightly annoying co-host. Yes, it’s me, Steven Julian. With me as always, and much more importantly than me, is the star of the show, Noah McNeely from Product Genius. Welcome to your own studios, Noah. Noah McNeely: Well, thank you. It’s good to be here like I am every single day. Steven Julian: We are broadcasting from inside of. Product Genius right off the square in downtown Lawrenceville, but you guys are listening over the beauty of the internet and we have a fantastic, wonderful episode for you today. A very unique title that Noah has given us. It is the international, it’s 2023 and the new edition that Noah has created of the International Wildlife Federation’s field guide for identifying designers and engineers. Say that five times fast. Noah McNeely: No, I don’t think I can say it one time slow. Steven Julian: Yeah, well, you wrote it and so I read it. Hopefully it did very well. I think before we dig into it, obviously a little bit of tongue in cheek, but a lot of truth. Behind that tongue-in-cheek comment and title, there is no actual book. Please don’t go to Amazon and search that title. Keep listening to this show because we’re going to talk about it. So why did you choose the term field guide? Because I think that’s kind of a very important first point that we want to talk about. Noah McNeely: Well, when I think about a field guide, I think about, you know, we’ve taken trips with our kids to national parks and in all the, you know, the gift shops, they have these field guides for birds and plants and all sorts of stuff you can identify. And it’s really just a list of, you know, the characteristics of the features that that particular bird or tree might have so you can know what you’re looking at. So in thinking about this show, it occurred to me that engineers and product developers and designers, we also come in all different shapes and sizes and characteristics and we’re a little bit different. Steven Julian: So, and just to stay on that illustration of using a field guide, you go to a national park and you see some wildlife or you see birds. There are so many different types of birds. Noah McNeely: Right. Steven Julian: And not every bird. Not even all of them can fly. So the difference in those birds are so vast and so different and that field guide kind of helps you figure out. Now there’s one thing between looking for a bird and there’s another thing between taking my brand new invention or product that I want to try to bring to market, thing you’ve lovingly referred to as their baby. Many, many times on past episodes. of this and other iterations of the show. And people might think I need to talk to an engineer slash product developer or product development company. Noah McNeely: This episode is really about how can you recognize before you hire someone who maybe isn’t as experienced as I am, how can you recognize whether they’re the right fit or not? Steven Julian: And those field guides that you are referencing when you go to the parks or somewhere else. You told me that a field guide at its core is giving you tools and kind of helping you distinguish. Noah McNeely: Right. So you can impress your nine-year-old by either saying, hey, there’s a bird or, hey, there’s a whatever type of bird it is. Steven Julian: There’s a Robin Redbreast or a female or male cardinal because you can tell the difference because the field guide tells you how to tell the difference. So in this field guide, the International Wildlife Federation’s field guide for identifying designers and engineers, I find it interesting that designers and engineers are wildlife. That’s another story for another show. But what are some of the, let’s start talking about some of the differences. Let’s start talking about some of the tools. that you want to point out and you want to. Point people to and say, here are some of the ways that people are different. What’s the first one you want to talk about? Noah McNeely: Well, I think the first thing that I would look at is the type of resource that you’re talking to or evaluating. And that can be everything from your neighbor’s brother’s nephew. He learned CAD by watching YouTube and maybe he can help you design your product. There’s one end of the spectrum where that’s what you find. And there are times when maybe that’s the right person to work with. Then you’ve got some dude you met on Fiverr who’s named Charlie and he’s from Pakistan. Maybe he’s the right guy. Maybe he’s not. Then you’ve got freelancers. They’re professionals. Maybe you can walk into their office. Maybe you find them on the Internet. And beyond that, you’ve got firms. You’ve got small firms like Product Quick Start. And you’ve got big firms and you’ve got very big firms. So you’ve got people out there that work for development companies that have 400 and 500 employees. And then you’ve got companies like Product Quick Start. that… Are very, very small. And there’s a place for every one of these. And there’s a project that’s right for every one of these. But it’s very rare to find any one of these. that’s right for all the projects. Steven Julian: I’m going to take what you just talked about. And we want to dig into some of those differences. But the first one, and you’ve set it on a tee for me as the slightly annoying co-host and comic relief, sometimes in the way I ask my questions incorrectly. So let me ask this. Does size really matter? Noah McNeely: It absolutely matters. You can have a, maybe your engineer’s too fat, maybe he’s too skinny.

Steven Julian: You need to unpack that a little bit more and I’m not touching that. Noah McNeely: Fair enough. Steven Julian: I don’t want to be canceled a few shows into the relaunch. Noah McNeely: Right. So let’s say by fat or skinny, I’m really referring to the size of the firm. So let’s say you’ve got… Let’s say you’ve got a pretty simple project and it’s relatively straightforward and you go into one of these great big firms and they’re going to have 10 people in that meeting with you. They’re. going to have eight people, whatever it is, and then you’re $3,000, $4,000 into the project before they’ve ever even started. Now, if you’ve got a really complicated project, maybe you’re trying to develop a new type of microwave and all sorts of technology bits and pieces. That’s where you might need those eight or ten people in that meeting just to kick off the project. But if you’re designing, you know, a new type of baby bottle or a new type of garden tool, maybe not.

Steven Julian: This might be a little unfair, but I’m kind of trying to lump as many of our listeners and as many people who are starting down this path. Maybe it’s their first product that they’re developing, their first invention, their first time, which is why they’re looking for the field guide. So kind of lumping as many of them as possible together, you kind of began with some dude from Fiverr and a friend of a friend and someone who’s studied CAD on YouTube. The benefit of starting there possibly is very, very low cost, but you have to weigh that with. it is someone who studied CAD through YouTube and some online. course and maybe doesn’t have a lot of experience. Should everyone start cheap? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily. I think a lot of the inventors out there, especially ones that I work with, they can probably start cheaper than they do. to get the idea fleshed out a little bit. What I tell people is don’t hire me to do things you can do on your own or maybe you have a cheap resource to do. Because you’re a startup, because you’re an inventor, you probably have very limited resources to get your product launched. Let’s conserve those resources wherever we can. However… I’ve also seen people stay in that sort of cheap space way too long, and their expectations just weren’t correct. So they stay with that guy who learned all about CAD on YouTube, which is great, but that guy who learned CAD on YouTube, he doesn’t know anything about plastic product design or sheet metal design or any of the things that actually are needed to get your product into the physical world.

Steven Julian: How do they discern? Can you give a couple of tips? Can you give a couple of maybe some real world examples that people can relate to? I guess the cheap end of the spectrum, the potentially, I don’t want to say unprofessional, but the lack of experience side of the equation where someone can go to Fiverr or that friend of a friend, that’s at least worth exploring because it’s… It’s relatively easy to, it doesn’t utilize a lot of resources. Just don’t put all your eggs in. I’ve got all my problems solved and I can get this all the way to market by doing it cheap. I guess I’m just asking, you know, it’s better to start exploring there and then the advice is don’t stay too long. Noah McNeely: Yeah. And I think, you know, you asked the question, how do you discern where you should start? And I think it’s a bit of a balancing act. It’s on the lower end, you need to determine. How capable that resource is. So get them to show you examples of stuff they’ve done before. If they show you a lot of really cool pictures, that’s probably all they can do for you. But there’s value in that. Maybe you need those really cool pictures. Maybe you need them to think it out in a 3D print. But that’s as far as you need to think about going with that particular person or company. On the other end of the spectrum, if the quote you’re getting is so high that it… It destroys your entire budget just to begin working with that company. They’re probably way too big or way too specialized or just way too expensive for what you need right now. Steven Julian: Is one good tip that anyone as they start talking to anyone, whether it’s you or, again, friend of a friend or a large firm, is it good to get a request for a quote before any work is done on almost anything? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you wouldn’t hire anyone in any other part of your life. To do something without getting a quote or an idea. I mean, unless you’re, you know, if you’re having heart surgery and it’s an emergency, maybe you would. But people aren’t going to come paint your house without telling you what it’s going to be. Steven Julian: Okay, so instead of just requesting for a quote, go through the quote with them, kind of understand exactly what you’re signing up to get done exactly. What the scope of. work is and come into agreement on that. Noah McNeely: And be very careful about some of the smaller resources like independent freelancers, you know, Fiverr people, Upwork people. Be very careful about hourly contracts because just like anything else, the hours can become very large very quickly without you necessarily… Having reached any milestones and I’ve, you know, I inherit a lot of projects from actually from both ends of the spectrum. So people eventually figure out that they’re not in the right spot. Either it’s too big of a company or it’s, it’s not a sophisticated enough resource to get them to, to the finish line. So once they figure that out, I tend to inherit those or people like me, we inherit those projects. And sometimes. They’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars with that freelancer and they just have not moved the ball very far. Sometimes they’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars with that really big company and they also haven’t moved the ball very far because every hour that company spends is a lot more expensive. Steven Julian: Let’s talk about those larger firms for just a second before we go on to the next part of the. resource and the next differences of people. So the large firms, the number one thing you’ve kind of said is because there’s more people or because it’s a larger conference room or more people are in on the… The conversation, the hourly cost can go way up because it’s a larger team. What are some of the benefits? What are some of the reasons why someone would want to go to a larger firm? Is there a particular part of the project that larger firms will help with or a particular type of project? Or you enlighten me through this field guide. Noah McNeely: So I come from the benefit of having managed. Both types of firms. My previous experience before starting Product Quickstart was managing a relatively large firm. We had 40 employees, designers, engineers, scientists, and salespeople, and a whole bunch of overhead, which is just how you have to run a firm like that. So you asked about some benefits of a larger firm. If you have a project that does cross into a lot of disciplines, Like into science, into some heavy R&D, into maybe medical or otherwise, then you need a larger firm with all those different. points of view that can come to bear in the project. You can do it another way too. You can certainly hire all those people individually, but then you sort of become a general contractor in that sense. You have to manage all that yourself, which can be very time consuming for an entrepreneur. Other benefits of a larger firm is if you are in a hurry, They can throw a lot of resources at something very quickly. Now, you’re going to pay for that, but let’s say you need to reach a trade show in a month or whatever. You’re not going to get there with a small company like Product Quickstart necessarily because we’re usually pretty busy. We have a backlog. We do great work, but that takes time, and we’re not able to expand to 40 people very quickly to handle that. Steven Julian: So one of the other sections of this. International Wildlife Federation Field Guide for Identifying Designers and Engineers would be in the section of, are you working with a generalist or are you working with a specialist or something else? Talk a little bit about what you mean by that chapter of the field guide. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so when I refer to generalists, I mean designers, engineers, product developers that work on a wide variety of products in a wide variety of industries. So they may do some medical work, they may do some… Power tool work, some basic consumer product work, some electronics work. They know about product development in a very general sense. They can help you bring all sorts of products to the market. A specialist, however, they may be a specialist in optics or they may be very, very deep in medical. And if you’re working on, let’s say, an implantable medical invention, you’re probably going to want to work with that specialist rather than a generalist. That’s a hard word to say. Specialists tend to be more expensive. So you might want to be very careful about going to them too early. You might want to work with a generalist to flush out the idea, get to a basic prototype, get all the mechanics, all the physics worked out. Then you go to that specialist to work out all the FDA stuff or all the high science stuff that only that person can do.

Steven Julian: Large and small are all the people. who are in product development and engineering. Do they either pick one or the other? or is there even a third category that firms might kind of say?

Noah McNeely: Well, larger firms, this is another benefit to a large firm, is that they may have both generalists and specialists on staff. Okay. Steven Julian: So there again, they can throw more resources and things. Noah McNeely: Right. They don’t necessarily have the right specialist for you. So you have to be careful about that. But, and coming from my experience running the larger firm, sometimes it is a challenge to, you know, you’re trying to fit a round peg in a square hole once in a while. And yeah, you’ve got people that can do it, but you’ve also got this large machine to feed. So you’re going to maybe put people into one project or another that maybe they’re not the ideal specialist for. And that’s just how businesses like that have to operate. Steven Julian: So we’ve talked about whether size matters, and it does. You can work with a fat firm and you can work with a skinny firm. We’ve talked about generalists and we’ve talked about specialists. I think there’s one other chapter, there’s one other section where you kind of wanted to differentiate. Noah McNeely: Right. So the generalists and specialists we talked about already, that’s about their knowledge base, what they’re good at, what they do. Do they do all types of products? Do they do medical products? More about around what kind of industry they work in. There’s also this other area of generalist versus specialist, and that’s in who they like to work with. So on one end of the spectrum, companies can be very much specialized in startups, entrepreneurs, smaller companies. On the other end of the spectrum, you’ve got very big companies or even some small companies in their entire focus. is very large clients like the Procter & Gamble’s of the world. And then you’ve got sort of this middle space where you’ve got companies that try to be everything to everybody. And I used to run a company like that and it doesn’t always work out so well. And if you as a client, especially as an entrepreneur, if you try to go into the wrong type of company, you know, maybe it’s a company that does only like to do big company work, you’re going to. get a very high price. You’re not going to get the attention you need. If you go to this everything to everybody type of firm, it might be a little better. But still, if that big client comes in the door, you as an inventor, you’re going to be kind of pushed to the back burner. On the converse of that, if you come to me, write a quick start, and you’re this great big company, and you’re wanting to develop this new military communications equipment, I’m not going to be the right person to help you. And other freelancers are not going to be the right person to help you. Other small companies are not going to be the right people to help you. So finding that right match of size is as important as finding that right match of capabilities and knowledge base. Steven Julian: Is this something that is, again, thinking of our listener who’s developing their product, doing their invention, is this something that can be discerned based on a company’s website? Is this something they’re allowed to ask, hey, do you typically, you said earlier in the interview to ask them to show examples of the work? they’ve done. Can you also ask them, hey, Can you give me examples of what size a company can, I would imagine they can’t necessarily share their client list with you, but can they give you, can you say, hey, I’m a small startup. This is my first product. I’m relatively new at this. Can you put me in touch with any people that you’ve worked with that are kind of in the same boat as I am? Is that a fair question to ask?

Noah McNeely: I think there’s a flavor of that. that’s fair. However, you know, speaking from my own experience, I try to be very protective of my clients. If every potential client that comes knocking on my door, if I sent them to old clients, hey, go talk to these people, they’d be getting calls all the time. Nobody wants that. So I think a more fair question would be show me things you’ve done that you can, that’s public for smaller clients like myself. And that preferably are on the market. because if they show you a lot of stuff that never made it to the market, that should be a yellow flag or at least. a yellow flag for you. Because even if they can show you all this great stuff they did for Coca-Cola and Procter & Gamble and stuff, but they can’t show you an invention, an entrepreneur’s invention that made it to the market, they may not be able to get it there. All right. Steven Julian: I think one of the things through the string of this interview and as I’m thumbing through this field guide with you, I think one of the things that we’ve stated very clearly is it’s okay as we approach any firm, large, small, generalist specialist, someone that works with startups or tries to be all things to all people, it’s very good to ask. Very specific questions. Get some specific quotes. Get examples of things that they’ve done. And I think, so the last thing I would say. Noah McNeely: Don’t be shy about asking questions. Okay. This is someone that you’re, or this is someone or someone’s, you’re going to be putting a lot of faith in. You’re going to be working with for a while. So, you know, ask away. Don’t shy away from any question. Steven Julian: And the other, the last thing I was going to ask. is. Is it a good idea? I would imagine there’s some value, but again, much like the friend of a friend or the person who learned CAD on the side doing a side hustle gig. Noah McNeely: Or Charlie in Pakistan. Steven Julian: Charlie in Pakistan. Noah McNeely: Not his real name. Steven Julian: Correct. That’s been changed to protect the innocent or the guilty, depending on how you see it. As I’m doing this, you think of communities, you know, Pinterest, Reddit, you know, the Reddit inventors group or a LinkedIn group. There’s got to be some value, but you got to be careful of how much value you derive from asking other people you meet networking or people you meet in a community of inventors. I mean, this is one of the things we’ve talked about on this show and in past iterations of networking and getting around other inventors, getting around other product developers. Not everybody’s out to screw you. Sometimes you can talk to some people and, hey, what’s your experience been like? Not, you know, do you, does somebody work with somebody that does this? I mean, is that, is there some value in trying to get with other inventors and find out? what they did? Noah McNeely: I think there is with two caveats. One, their project was different than your project. I mean, as an inventor, you know, by definition, what you’re doing is new, hasn’t been done before, right? I mean, if you’re inventing something that’s already out there, then you’re not really inventing it. That’s one caveat. So their experience will differ from yours just because of that. So you have to look at it through the lens of how your project is different. You also have to consider how well they may have managed or mismanaged their project. So let’s say… But let’s say that they hired an engineer and they didn’t have the right expectations or they didn’t understand some of the things we’ve talked about on this show. They may come away with a very negative impression of that engineer just because or that product development firm just because that product development firm may have done all the right things and said, you know, here’s the reasons this won’t work. And this is why we’re not going to work with you unless you can solve these things. I have that conversation with a lot of people. I’m sure. some of those people don’t like me much after that conversation. Any one point of information. Now, if you see a trend, a lot of people having similar comments, well, maybe that’s something to consider. Steven Julian: Well, I don’t know about those people, but I still like you. And Jody, I’m getting a thumbs up from Jody. So you’re okay in this room so far. So well done. So Noah, I wanted to ask you. Noah McNeely: Focus group of two. Check. Steven Julian: Quite a group. A Motley Crue, if you will. I wanted to ask, and this might be the last question here. I-W-F-F-G-I-D-E guide and look for the page that is for Noah McNeely and Product Quick Start. What would I find on that page? What do people need to know about your place in this field guide and what you bring to the table? Noah McNeely: So our listing would say we are a small firm, a really small firm. I mean, there’s just a few of us. Projects and industries we work in. There are a few industries we don’t touch and we’ll be very upfront about that, but we’re not specialized in one industry. And we are also small client focused. We are not trying to be everything to everyone. We don’t even advertise to larger companies. So that will be our profile. Steven Julian: And then along with that profile, I think one of the things, one of the purposes of this show, as well as some of the things you do through your business is, If someone comes to you, either they didn’t listen to this show and they come to you, or even in spite of listening to this show, those are the things you are. You have had experience in many of the other types and still know some wonderful people who do good work in a large firm, in a more specialist setting, correct? Noah McNeely: I do, and I do also know some non-wonderful people. And if you’re really rude to me, I might send you to one of them. I’m kidding. Just kidding. Yeah, so I’ve been doing this a long time. So I know a lot of people that do a lot of things. And if I’m not a fit for you, I have no reservation about sending you to someone else. that I think might be. And I stay plenty busy. I don’t need to finagle. you into doing a project with me if it’s not a fit. Steven Julian: And I know I’ve asked this question of you many times over the years in many different ways. But I think if anyone listening to this point is still listening and still going, I think I need to talk to Noah. What is their first experience going to be like? So they’ve got their field guide. They read your page there as you gave it, and they go, I think I’m going to go try to find Noah in the wild. What’s the first step? What are some of the things people can expect from you, and what are you expecting from them? Noah McNeely: Well, I’ll tell you the best way to do it, and I’ll tell you a couple of bad ways to do it. Steven Julian: Oh, okay, good. Let’s start with the best way. Noah McNeely: The best way, just go to the website. Fill out the contact us form and give me some information to go on. That’s useful. I can prepare for a call with you. We’ll schedule something. We’ll talk. The worst way is to just find my phone number and keep calling me over and over. again because I get a million spam calls, so I’m probably not going to answer if I don’t recognize your number. And then you don’t leave a message. I’m like, this is a really persistent spam person. And then we never talk. The second worst way to do it is to go to the website, go to the contact desk form and say, call me. Because I don’t know what we’re going to talk about. I don’t know if you’re trying to sell me insurance. I don’t know what it’s about. So give me some information. Don’t tell me anything. that’s, you know, going to violate a patent or top secret or anything, but there’s something you can tell me. You know, you don’t have to, you can tell me, hey, I’m working on a medical device. I’m working on a garden tool. That hasn’t told me anything secret, but that at least helps me understand what type of conversation we might have. Steven Julian: And in fact, if they go to productquickstart.com, you’ve actually tried as… Best as you can within your power to take away at least one of those worst ways to reach out to them because there’s a. very easy contact us form. that isn’t just name and phone numbers. Noah McNeely: There’s two. I mean, if you do want to go the easy route, there’s the basic contact us, you know, just free form answer, whatever you want to say. But we also have the self-assessment form, which actually asks some very good questions. that really helped me to prep for a call with you. Steven Julian: Can I give our listeners a tip? Noah McNeely: Sure. Steven Julian: Please do the self-assessment form, guys. You know, ladies and gentlemen, please do the self-assessment form. Because if you do the just simple contact us, even if you say I got a garden tool, I got a medical piece of equipment, or we need more options in vegan food, you know, that is an inside joke for us in the room and for longtime listeners of this program. Then we, you know, that’s… He’ll get to you, but if you give him the more information someone can give you up front without giving away their secrets, the more motivated you will be to reach out to them and talk to them and prepared and get the most out of that call. Noah McNeely: Right. The more you’re going. to get out of the call with me, even if I’m not the right fit for you, I will be able to give you a reference much quicker in that case. Steven Julian: Which goes back to the original part of this, that one of the biggest mistakes people make by not having a field guide or not paying attention to the field guide. They waste too much time or too much money sitting at the wrong table, sitting on the wrong phone call. Noah McNeely: Right, exactly. Steven Julian: And in real life field guide, that’s them getting attacked by wildlife. So, you know, both outcomes are bad. Noah McNeely: Right. Steven Julian: One financially, one physically. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I thought it was a squirrel, but it was a bear, so now I’m in the hospital. Steven Julian: For four years, I lived in Bozeman, Montana, and we would go to Yellowstone, and it always amazed me. How people would get so close to the bison and to, you know, the other animals. And I’m like, you. And so whenever I see a news story, they go, I can’t believe this happened. I’m like, I can’t. I watched idiots walk up to them, you know, to take pictures. And don’t you realize? that’s a wild and this isn’t a zoo. There’s no fence. Noah McNeely: They are not the costume characters at Disney World. Correct. Steven Julian: Correct. So. You’ve given everybody the contact information. I don’t think there’s any reason to repeat it, but I do want to give you the last word just in case there was something I missed, any other mistakes that I made, any part of the field guide that we didn’t go over that you want to make sure and go over. Noah McNeely: Just one last bit of advice. There’s a reason for every type of engineer and product development resource we talked about to exist. That doesn’t mean they’re the right. For you all the way through, like I said, I’m not the right fit for everybody all the way through. So do your homework, be open to changing who you’re working with throughout the process, and you’ll have a better experience. Don’t get married on the first date. Take some time, and that’s going to get you to your goal a lot more reliably. Steven Julian: That is absolutely the best piece of last advice that Noah can give. I’m not going to try and top it, but I’m going to. add to it. In terms of doing your homework and not wasting your time or money, I do want to remind everybody one last time that the International Wildlife Federation’s Field Guide for Identifying Designers and Engineers, lovingly known as IWFFGIDE, is not available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. Don’t go looking for it. It is exclusive. Audio of this episode of Product Genius with Noah McNeely. So just like every other episode, we’re available on your favorite podcasting platform. Hey, are you involved in a… An inventor community? Well, you need to be. And when you’re involved in that community, tell them about this show. This show is free. It always will be free. We just want you to know more about how you can bring your product to market, make your invention a little bit better and a lot more viable and get it to market. So for our producer, Jody Smith from JodySmith.com and for Noah McNeely of Product Quick Start, this is Steven Julian, your slightly annoying co-host who’s ready to end this episode by saying we’ll catch you next time on Product Genius.

Steven Julian: Greetings and salutations. Steven Julian: I am your slightly annoying host, Steven Julian. Steven Julian: Welcome to a new edition of Product Genius. Steven Julian: This time… Without Tiffany Crumans, but what we do have is the fantastic Noah McNeely. Steven Julian: Noah, welcome back to the show. Noah McNeely: Yeah, it’s good to be back. Noah McNeely: I feel like it’s been an entire pandemic ago. Steven Julian: Almost. Steven Julian: It’s been at least, it’s been a year, but it does kind of feel like a whole pandemic ago. Steven Julian: So, Product Genius, this might sound a little bit different. Steven Julian: There are some differences. Steven Julian: Why don’t? Steven Julian: we cover all that stuff up front?

Steven Julian: Broadcasting this show almost live from the Plush Palatial Studios that is the worldwide headquarters of Product Quick Start. Steven Julian: Tell everybody about your new digs. Noah McNeely: Yes, so Product Quick Start, we were fortunate enough to move into a new facility, well, new to us facility that we’re renovating in what they call the Depot District of Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is this… Exciting little area where we have some breweries and we have a distillery going in. Noah McNeely: that I think is going to make tequila and I try to remain sober during the day when I’m working here. Steven Julian: Especially when you’re doing the show. Steven Julian: Well, maybe not as much when you do that. Noah McNeely: Probably more important that I remain sober when using the power equipment in the back. Steven Julian: Amen. Steven Julian: The other thing we want to talk about for those people who are coming upon this episode and have listened to past episodes. Steven Julian: In some respects, we’re the same, but in some respects, there are some differences. Steven Julian: This show was always known as Product Genius with Tiffany Krumans. Steven Julian: Tiffany is still with us, but she’s not with us in the studio. Steven Julian: So, Noah, I ask. Steven Julian: you, where in the world is Tiffany Krumans? Noah McNeely: Well, anyone that has listened to more recent shows probably knows Tiffany has a lot of ideas for businesses, and she also has… New children in her life, and she stays very, very busy. Noah McNeely: Her latest company is called Opu Probiotics, and it’s a fabulous product. Noah McNeely: I recommend you try it. Noah McNeely: I particularly like the mocha mint flavor. Noah McNeely: But anyway, we believe that Tiffany is scouring the world looking for the finest ingredients she can for that particular product. Noah McNeely: So you might find her in the Himalayas or the Amazon. Noah McNeely: Probably wearing a baby and a baby Bjorn and with three other kids following her around. Steven Julian: And everybody can go to opuprobiotics.com, opuprobiotics.com, and see all the latest things that Tiffany is doing with that product. Steven Julian: And therefore, she was the creator of Product Genius originally, and you were a fantastic partner and sponsor of the show and would come on and talk about… Developing products through your business, productquickstart.com. Steven Julian: And when Tiffany really launched Opu, she told all of us, Jody Smith, the producer of the show, and myself as the slightly annoying host, hey, I’m going to take a little. Steven Julian: bit of time off. Steven Julian: I got to launch this new business. Steven Julian: And then in the meantime, let me just fast forward a little bit. Steven Julian: And I don’t know how much behind the scenes and unplugged you want to get. Steven Julian: Why are you sitting across the table from me and why are you now kind of leading this ship that Tiffany built up to this point? Noah McNeely: Well, first, we’re going to hope that the Shipley is led in a good direction and not running aground. Steven Julian: Not yet, at least. Steven Julian: We’re five minutes in. Steven Julian: It’s so far so good. Noah McNeely: So, yeah, we’re doing great at the moment. Noah McNeely: Well, I always enjoyed doing the show. Noah McNeely: I mean, I had a lot of fun with you guys and it really hits one of my passions, which… I like talking about this stuff. Noah McNeely: I do what I love. Noah McNeely: I enjoy explaining it to people. Noah McNeely: I think the show is a good way to do that. Noah McNeely: I’ve actually met a number of people through the show. Noah McNeely: Those are all great conversations. Noah McNeely: My hope is as we move forward, Product Genius will be a show that’s useful for inventors, of course. Noah McNeely: Really, I think we’re going to. Noah McNeely: talk about things that relate to all entrepreneurs or most entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: Even to people that work for bigger companies that want to think more like entrepreneurs. Steven Julian: So here we are after more than a year off. Steven Julian: We’re doing a new show. Steven Julian: Noah McNeely is sitting across the table from me. Steven Julian: Jody Smith from JodySmith.com is still our producer. Steven Julian: I’m still the slightly annoying host. Steven Julian: And here we are still talking about product development. Steven Julian: We’re going to talk about inventing. Steven Julian: And today we’re talking about help. Steven Julian: I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Which is definitely true of this show after not doing it for a year. Steven Julian: And people who are doing product development and kind of trying to bring their product to market, as they’re bringing one product to market, they have all these other ideas. Steven Julian: That’s the entrepreneurial, that’s the inventor. Steven Julian: There’s a lot of people listening who, number one, are going, okay, yeah, they’re talking about something I need to talk about. Steven Julian: And when you’re listening to this, you might also be thinking, Ooh, I know someone else that needs to hear this. Steven Julian: So listen to this one, invite them to hear the show because we’re going to be talking. Steven Julian: about, I got too many ideas. Steven Julian: So the title of the show, obviously I gave a little bit of a inkling of it.

Steven Julian: You are guilty of this just like anybody else, right? Noah McNeely: Oh, absolutely. Noah McNeely: In fact, the fact that I’m doing this podcast while writing a business and… Engaging in various other hobbies may be an example of where I’m guilty of this, but I’m trying to balance it well. Noah McNeely: And we thought this would be a really good topic for the first show because Tiffany is actually a great example of doing this well. Noah McNeely: She realized at some point that she had too many different things going on. Noah McNeely: So to be successful, she had to push some of them to the back, and that’s why. Noah McNeely: That’s why we’re here. Steven Julian: That’s why she’s out finding those great products or finding those great ingredients to go into the mint mocha. Noah McNeely: That’s why she’s in the Amazon today. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Noah McNeely: So, you know, this is a problem that doesn’t just affect inventors and entrepreneurs. Noah McNeely: It actually affects big companies as well. Noah McNeely: And back when I did a lot of big company work, this was a topic that would come up. Noah McNeely: The big. Noah McNeely: scary corporate name for this is portfolio management. Noah McNeely: As an inventor entrepreneur, you never need to use that phrase again, probably. Noah McNeely: But the idea is even big companies, they have so many things that they want to do or would love to do, but they can’t do them all. Noah McNeely: In a big company, like a Fortune 500 company, I almost said some names there, but I don’t want to be sued or anything by any of my clients from years ago. Noah McNeely: In a big company, you have entire teams of people in many cases. Noah McNeely: Their whole job is to manage and really to do the portfolio management role. Noah McNeely: They’ll have roadmaps of products that the company is going to develop for five, ten years out in some cases, and they have to prioritize those. Steven Julian: So let’s talk about the person who’s listening to this podcast who’s trying to bring one or a couple of products to market or are trying to build their business. Steven Julian: Go from idea to prototype to development.

Steven Julian: When you say, help, I’ve got too many ideas, can that be true of one product? Noah McNeely: It can be. Noah McNeely: It can be true of one product or it can. Noah McNeely: also just be the nature of the individual. Noah McNeely: So I’ve met people that clients have come in and they get really excited about their product. Noah McNeely: We go through that. Noah McNeely: And then a lot of times on the way out the door, they’re like, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Noah McNeely: I’ve got seven more I’m working on. Noah McNeely: We’re going to talk about them next time. Noah McNeely: And I think they tell me that to get me more excited about working with them, but that’s really often a red flag. Noah McNeely: So on the next meeting, you’re at the next meeting, I usually have to tamp that down a little bit and say, you know, look, that’s great. Noah McNeely: I love all these ideas, but let’s get one on the market first. Noah McNeely: And I think that can be a tough thing for entrepreneurs, even myself, because I have… I have so many things I want to accomplish and want to do, but it’s easy to want to spend all the time in the visionary stage. Noah McNeely: Hey, this is going to be fun. Noah McNeely: I’m going to spend all day thinking about this idea and jotting out what’s it going to be like when. Noah McNeely: I’m done. Noah McNeely: But the problem is there’s a lot of things that have to happen between now and achieving that vision. Steven Julian: And the ideas is the sexy part. Steven Julian: The ideas is the everybody’s. Steven Julian: Had at least one or two ideas. Steven Julian: I actually, I still don’t know why at times I’m the slightly annoying host of the show because I’ve had very few ideas of products. Steven Julian: I’ve never tried to develop anything, but I would relate it. Steven Julian: I, I love the world of comedy and I love listening to comedians, especially them talking about doing jokes. Steven Julian: And it’s one thing to have, Hey, Seinfeld had a book called, is this anything you start with an idea? Steven Julian: Hey, is this anything? Steven Julian: Is this potentially funny? Steven Julian: But from that point to getting it to where it’s a tight bit to be done on stage, there’s this huge, there’s a lot of work that goes in. Steven Julian: So you just mentioned it’s easy to do the ideas. Steven Julian: I got seven more, but they got all this work they got to do to just to get that one. Steven Julian: But I want to drill down and I want to kind of push back and ask even that. Steven Julian: person who’s on that one, I’ve got too many ideas. Steven Julian: Do they get sidetracked with too many things even in that one single idea? Steven Julian: That they’re bringing to market? Noah McNeely: Yeah, that can happen too.

Noah McNeely: I think we may have talked about this a long time ago, but there’s a concept I call minimum viable product or early viable product. Steven Julian: I remember that. Noah McNeely: Yes, it’s a classic. Noah McNeely: You should check it out. Noah McNeely: But the issue there is sometimes maybe it is just one product, but they have all these ideas for that one product. Noah McNeely: Oh, I want it to do this. Noah McNeely: I want it to do that. Noah McNeely: I want it to be Wi-Fi and I want it to levitate and I want it to glow in the dark. Noah McNeely: Sir, it’s a doorknob. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t need to necessarily do all that. Noah McNeely: Those are all great. Noah McNeely: Let’s get one on the market. Noah McNeely: because all that stuff you just talked about, that’s a two-year development program. Noah McNeely: If we just do your basic product, which is already cool and already different than anything out there, you can be on the market in six months. Noah McNeely: You can generate revenue. Noah McNeely: You’ve got a successful business at that. Noah McNeely: point. Noah McNeely: And more importantly, you’ve got money that you can now spend on Gen 2 and Gen 3 and Gen 4. Noah McNeely: But if we start down the path of developing, The super mega colossal product now, you’re never going to get there. Steven Julian: And we titled this show again, Help, but I think probably more often than not your job as the product development guru, as the genius who helps people bring their product to market, you have to tell them you really should be saying, Help, I have too many ideas in this super amazing, stupendous product. Steven Julian: Very rarely do they verbalize that. Steven Julian: You’re helping them verbalize. Noah McNeely: Right. Noah McNeely: Well, sometimes I have to help people realize it is a problem because, like I said, a lot of visionary people and a lot of entrepreneurs, like myself, we do tend to love that visionary phase. Noah McNeely: And we think that’s the most important thing. Noah McNeely: It’s not. Noah McNeely: It’s actually one of the least important and easiest parts of having a successful business.

Noah McNeely: So think about it this way. Noah McNeely: Think about all the little boys who dream about winning a Super Bowl as the quarterback. Noah McNeely: Now, you can’t just keep dreaming about winning a. Super Bowl. Noah McNeely: That’s great. Noah McNeely: That’s a wonderful vision. Noah McNeely: But if you don’t start exercising and training and learning the game, you’ll never play on a team, much less get to the Super Bowl. Steven Julian: So it’s a difference between being a Super Bowl quarterback and being Uncle Rico sitting on the front step saying, if Coach had put me in that game, we would have won the state that year. Noah McNeely: That’s exactly right. Noah McNeely: And there are no time machines that will get you back there. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: So portfolio management, to use the term of the Fortune 500 companies, is really them kind of categorizing or siloing or insert other corporate term here. Steven Julian: But really, it’s checking boxes. Steven Julian: It’s laying it out in steps.

Steven Julian: Is that something that you, as the person with Product Quick Start, is trying to help people say, okay, here are the 17 steps that we’re going to have to take? Steven Julian: Or is it just getting them focused on creating the 17 steps? Steven Julian: Kind of talk through that process. Steven Julian: Someone’s got an idea, and then someone starts to spiral into too many ideas. Steven Julian: The portfolio management that you do, not for the Fortune 500, but for the individual. Steven Julian: entrepreneur and inventor, what do you try to bring to the table? Noah McNeely: Yeah, so it’s really launch your product in 375 easy steps. Noah McNeely: No, it’s not. Noah McNeely: There’s really only two questions. Steven Julian: I thought it was 367 steps. Noah McNeely: We revised it last year. Noah McNeely: Oh, okay. Noah McNeely: So there’s really only two. Noah McNeely: Two questions that I ask people to consider when they’re trying to prioritize the features of their product or which product to develop or which product to develop when. Noah McNeely: And with the assumption that inventor entrepreneurs, you probably don’t have five people or 20 people on a team that you’re paying to do all the analysis. Noah McNeely: And yeah, you go to a really big company and they’re going to ask a lot more than these two questions. Noah McNeely: At least they’re going to ask a lot more versions of these two questions. Noah McNeely: But the two questions I tell people to consider is, number one, what can I get to the market with my resources? Noah McNeely: And of course, I can help them try to figure that out. Noah McNeely: This is how much it’s going to take to develop this product, to make the tooling for it, to produce it. Noah McNeely: So we have to be. Noah McNeely: realistic about what resources you have to actually get that to the market. Noah McNeely: And that may mean you can’t launch five at a time. Noah McNeely: Now, I’ve had some clients that are just independently wealthy, and yeah, they can do it. Noah McNeely: They have the resources for that. Noah McNeely: It can still be a bad idea in those cases because a resource that people often overlook is their own time, their own focus, their own ability to strategize and think about their business. Noah McNeely: So the second question is, what can I sell? Noah McNeely: You know, what will I be able to sell? Noah McNeely: So, yeah, this is a great idea. Noah McNeely: I have the funds to develop it. Noah McNeely: I have the resources to develop it. Noah McNeely: But is there a market for it? Noah McNeely: And is it a market that I understand well enough to actually sell? Noah McNeely: And the answer to either of those questions is no. Noah McNeely: Then that’s probably not the product you should develop first. Noah McNeely: You need to focus on the product or the collection of features in your product. Noah McNeely: that both of those answers are yes. Steven Julian: And I know we’ve talked about variations of those questions over past episodes. Steven Julian: Encourage everybody to go back and. Steven Julian: listen to Noah’s past episodes on Product Genius. Noah McNeely: Product Genius is brought to you by Opu Probiotics. Noah McNeely: Pre and probiotics you can pour directly on your tongue in delicious mint and mocha flavors. Steven Julian: But the taste is just the beginning. Noah McNeely: With Opu, you can see improved digestive function, boosted immune system, easier weight management, improved mental health, and much more. Noah McNeely: Try today at GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: That’s GetOpu.com. Steven Julian: Let me focus in on the second question. Steven Julian: first, because I think… The typical inventor entrepreneur who sits down with you, especially with their first idea, and you ask them that question, you know, what can I sell? Steven Julian: Can this sell? Steven Julian: Their answer, bar none, is going to be, well, of course this is going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s a fantastic idea. Steven Julian: I came up with this. Steven Julian: It came in a bolt of lightning. Steven Julian: Everybody who brings you any idea is going to tell you, well, of course it’s going to sell. Steven Julian: It’s fantastic. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I’ve heard variations of, well, why wouldn’t you buy this if you could buy it? Noah McNeely: I’ve probably heard a hundred variations of that throughout the course of my career.

Steven Julian: You’re a communist pig if you don’t buy this, of course. Steven Julian: This is great. Steven Julian: Sorry, that was my insertion, not Noah’s. Steven Julian: My apologies. Noah McNeely: Yeah, so we’re going to remain politically apolitical here as best we can. Noah McNeely: Uh, yeah. Noah McNeely: So a lot of, um, a lot of inventor entrepreneurs, they’re so enamored by their idea. Noah McNeely: They just can’t imagine it not being successful. Noah McNeely: And then they’re like, well, as soon as people see this, they’re going to want it. Noah McNeely: That may be true. Noah McNeely: And that, that in some ways that for most people, that probably is true. Noah McNeely: The question becomes, how do you reach those people? Noah McNeely: And that’s also part of how do you sell it? Noah McNeely: Can you sell it? Noah McNeely: Uh, so if you’ve got a, it’s a product that, oh, everyone would use it. Noah McNeely: Well, that’s almost the worst kind of product for an inventor because. Noah McNeely: You don’t have the marketing budget to reach everybody. Noah McNeely: If it’s more focused, like, well, people that have teenage girls that want to learn how to play golf, you can reach that market a lot easier and in a more forceful way. Noah McNeely: So that’s also part of, you know, what’s it going to take to sell this? Noah McNeely: Not necessarily even, do I have the sales? Noah McNeely: skills? Noah McNeely: You can always hire someone to do that for you, but it’s got to be. Noah McNeely: Do I have the resources not only to design, develop, produce this product, but do I have the resources to sell it? Noah McNeely: What are those resources going to be? Steven Julian: And in your help in answering that question, because I was kind of pushing back against the question, the second question you asked there, what can I sell? Steven Julian: You have to drill down and you have to ask that question more specifically or they have to answer that question more specifically because really what you’re asking is, is there a market for this? Steven Julian: Can the person define the market? Steven Julian: Can you sell it? Steven Julian: Meaning the person who’s got the idea, how would you sell it? Steven Julian: So let me then ask this in helping them answer that question. Steven Julian: How much is it you trying to get them to have their eyes open to all the all that that’s going to entail of selling the product? Steven Julian: or and or how much is it you saying, if you’ll listen to me, I’ve had a lot of experience and I’ve done this for a long time and I’ve done. Steven Julian: this. Steven Julian: On corporate level and individual level, here’s what I believe and I know surrounding what you’ve just told me about this idea. Noah McNeely: It’s a little bit of both. Noah McNeely: It depends on who I’m talking to and how receptive they are. Steven Julian: Ah, there we go. Noah McNeely: Different people with different personalities. Noah McNeely: You know, it’s kind of like the old Aesop’s fables, the way he would teach very powerful people lessons without insulting them, as he would tell a story about someone else who was fictional. Noah McNeely: They would maybe learn a lesson about. Noah McNeely: So sometimes I have to do that. Noah McNeely: And it comes along as, you know, I have to say, you know, look, I’m not into sales. Noah McNeely: I’m not into marketing. Noah McNeely: I design, build, and create stuff. Noah McNeely: I can help you fill a warehouse full of product. Noah McNeely: That’s no problem. Noah McNeely: We got that. Noah McNeely: What I can’t help you do is I can’t help you sell. Noah McNeely: I can’t help you market. Noah McNeely: I can tell you what I’ve seen other people do and what that’s cost them. Noah McNeely: And oftentimes that loan and going through that process is enough to help them realize, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I hadn’t thought about that. Noah McNeely: I am going to need a budget for that. Noah McNeely: And so sometimes I approach it that way. Noah McNeely: Sometimes people come in and they do have a lot of really good business savvy, business knowledge, business experience. Noah McNeely: They understand that right up front. Noah McNeely: I have to do a lot less in those cases. Noah McNeely: Sometimes in those cases, it’s more about explaining why it costs so much to make this product or that product or whatever it is. Steven Julian: So let me just ask Noah McNeely, the Product Quick Start CEO and the guy who’s done this for more than a few years, although you only look like you’ve been doing it for a few years. Noah McNeely: Well, hair dye goes a long way. Steven Julian: Exactly. Steven Julian: And flattery will get me everywhere. Steven Julian: Do you enjoy to an extent when someone who’s just starting out in this, it’s their first idea, they’ve never run a business, but they’re receptive to your kind of expertise and guidance. Steven Julian: There’s that that’s satisfying. Steven Julian: As well as the satisfying of kind of someone with some business savvy who knows the business stuff and you don’t have to spend as much time on that and you can really just focus on. Steven Julian: the product development. Steven Julian: Is there a preference one where this is just a personal question I’m asking at this point? Noah McNeely: That is a very difficult question. Noah McNeely: Exactly. Steven Julian: I’m slightly annoyed. Noah McNeely: It’s very individual based. Steven Julian: This is a relational thing for you, right? Steven Julian: This is a relational business, even for you and this. Noah McNeely: I’ll put you this way. Noah McNeely: I’m at a point in my career, I’ve done this long enough, I don’t usually have to work with people I dislike. Noah McNeely: Now, I will do my best to help anyone. Noah McNeely: Even if I dislike you, I will try to point you in a good direction, sometimes to someone I don’t like, but also. Noah McNeely: They don’t know that. Noah McNeely: Yeah, they don’t know that. Noah McNeely: No, but either can be good. Noah McNeely: I think it’s better for me to answer this from the standpoint of what’s the worst type of relationship. Steven Julian: Oh, there we go. Noah McNeely: That’s where someone comes in and they’ve never developed a product before. Noah McNeely: They don’t know anything about it, but they saw something on TV. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert or they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Noah McNeely: So now they’re an expert and they come in and they’re like, this is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: This is how you’re going to do it. Noah McNeely: And I’m like, well, why are you here? Noah McNeely: How am I supposed to help you? Noah McNeely: You know everything already. Noah McNeely: Even though everything you just told me is completely wrong. Noah McNeely: I know you’ve read a book about it that some idiot wrote who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but that’s not how you do it. Noah McNeely: That’s not how the real world works. Noah McNeely: So those are not good relationships. Noah McNeely: Those usually end quickly. Noah McNeely: The other side of that is people that they just cannot accept what I’m telling them. Noah McNeely: So here’s the problem you have. Noah McNeely: And if you cannot solve this problem, You don’t have a business. Noah McNeely: Now, that’s just my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of experience, and some people just, they get really irritated about that, and I never hear from them again, and that’s probably for the best for me. Noah McNeely: But unfortunately, they then go out and they find an engineer who’s just happy to take their money, and they’ll spend a year. Noah McNeely: Dumping thousands of dollars into making something that they can never afford to produce or. Noah McNeely: that it’s never going to sell or it’s just the wrong market. Steven Julian: I like the way you answered that question. Steven Julian: Well done. Steven Julian: I asked a difficult question. Steven Julian: Noah gave a great answer to it. Steven Julian: So let me transition from the second question you asked of what can I sell. Steven Julian: And let’s kind of circle back real quick to that first question. Steven Julian: What can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: This is a… Another way of kind of talking about minimum viable products. Steven Julian: So what do you need to know from the person that you’re talking to? Steven Julian: when it comes, because that word resources, let me unpack that just a little bit more. Steven Julian: You know, what can I get to the market with my resources? Steven Julian: You kind of need to know some things. Steven Julian: How much money do you have? Steven Julian: How much time do you have? Steven Julian: Kind of break that down. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I need them to be honest with themselves and with me.

Noah McNeely: Stuff costs what it costs. Noah McNeely: You know, I can’t work for free. Noah McNeely: Most people cannot. Noah McNeely: It doesn’t do you or me any good for you to come in and wear a fancy suit, pretend like you have. Noah McNeely: all this money, and then you don’t. Noah McNeely: Because then you and I are going to talk and go, hey, this is generally what this is going to cost. Noah McNeely: And you’re going to get one or two steps into that and say, oh, I can’t afford to go any further. Noah McNeely: Well, it’s like, well, why did you waste the money on the first two steps? Noah McNeely: I told you what it was going to cost to get this far. Noah McNeely: It’s like, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Well. Noah McNeely: I can’t refund your money. Noah McNeely: All the work is done. Noah McNeely: The prototypes are built. Noah McNeely: Whatever it is, that’s done. Noah McNeely: I’m sorry you can’t take it any further, but I don’t know what you want me to do. Noah McNeely: Go out and raise some money and come back in a few years, I guess. Noah McNeely: So that’s kind of the worst scenario there. Noah McNeely: I think I do need to do my best to explain to them, and I try my very best to this where I can. Noah McNeely: This is generally what it’s going to take. Noah McNeely: Hear what they’re trying to do. Noah McNeely: I’ll lay out a scope. Noah McNeely: Okay, the first phase is to get us to a prototype. Noah McNeely: I can give. Noah McNeely: that a pretty tight number. Noah McNeely: If there’s stuff in there, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Yeah, I don’t know. Noah McNeely: Are we going to end up in this material or that material? Noah McNeely: Beyond that, I have to give an estimated range. Noah McNeely: And then I can give my best guess at what the manufacturing is going to cost. Noah McNeely: But I can’t, you know, obviously on day one, nothing’s been designed. Noah McNeely: So I don’t know exactly what that is going to cost at the back end. Noah McNeely: So I do my best to open their eyes to what the costs are going to be. Noah McNeely: And also a little bit, you know, you’re going to have to have money for marketing. Noah McNeely: If you’re going to do a patent, I’ll send them to Brock, who you may know from other shows. Noah McNeely: All that’s going to take money. Noah McNeely: You may have to prioritize what you want to spend your money on and how you want to spend it. Noah McNeely: And I think actually in our next episode, we have some ideas about that. Steven Julian: Ooh, fellow with a tease. Noah McNeely: A slight tease, yes. Noah McNeely: I like that. Steven Julian: Well done. Noah McNeely: I am not a radio professional. Steven Julian: You just played one on this podcast. Steven Julian: So let me just, again, push back slightly on the word resources. Steven Julian: So we are talking about money. Steven Julian: There’s no question. Steven Julian: that is the main. Noah McNeely: Not just money. Steven Julian: Well, that was my question. Steven Julian: Don’t take my question away from me. Steven Julian: You definitely are not a professional when you did that. Noah McNeely: Clearly not. Steven Julian: So apart from money, what other resources can people bring to the table that you need to know about that will help you in helping them develop their products? Steven Julian: See how I did that? Steven Julian: Was that good? Steven Julian: All right. Noah McNeely: Thank you. Noah McNeely: So you may have other resources in terms of people in your network. Noah McNeely: You know, if you come in and say, I have this great idea and it’s for, you know, baseball players and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Noah McNeely: And okay, that’s great. Noah McNeely: But you don’t tell me, oh, and by the way, my cousin plays Major League Baseball. Noah McNeely: Well, you know, that’s a resource that we could know about. Noah McNeely: that can actually change my mind about how you would market this. Noah McNeely: Oh, well, maybe you don’t need all this money for marketing because your cousin can endorse it. Noah McNeely: Well, that may change what I advise you. Noah McNeely: on. Noah McNeely: